I am wondering if you guys are seeing what I am at the shows in your area. It seems like the shows I have attended lately the deals are drying up. Perhaps it's a regional thing.
I will give you some examples:
Intermountain Wheels and P2K diesels priced at full LHS.
Atlas / Roco diesels priced at $69.00. They sell on idiot bay all day for $20-30.
Tyco rolling stock, some minus 2 wheel sets priced at $10.00. I offered him $6.00 for one and he countered with a price of $9.50. I found the same car later at my LHS among some used rolling stock. It was complete with body-mounted KDs. The price was $3.99.
I have to wonder what is going on here? They drag in huge amounts of stock and then stubbornly refuse to budge on price. They have to be losing money on the table fees alone. Then factor in the time to load and unload, gas to the show and food. Eating seems to be their favorite pastime while at the table.
I'm not talking about the fast buck artist selling Wal-Mart cars for double. I am refereeing to the obvious train guys, who for whatever reason have their stock screwed or glued to the table.
Are these guys using the show table fee as some kind of tax write off?
Jim
Seems that way to me also !
the only Good prices at the last show her were at a table where a woman was selling her husbands estate collection
All the rest of the tables were at List price or above
Makes me wonder why they show up !
TerryinTexas
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They're just patient. The know that if they leave something on the table long enough, even packing it up and bringing it to show after show, sooner or later someone who really wants it will pay the asking price.
I usually make two passes by everything at shows. If I see something like a model truck I'd like, I'll remember where it was and how much it cost. If I don't see it for less at another table, maybe I'll go back and buy it, maybe not. Often there are significant differences on the same item from one aisle to the next.
A lot of the vendors at the shows in my area are MSRP brick-and-mortar shops who take it on the road. I don't expect them to discount much. For me, the allure of these shops is buying some little detail items that aren't worth ordering on-line because of the shipping charges.
At the last show, I found an old wood-sheathed caboose for 3 bucks. It needed couplers, but was otherwise RTR. I touched up the paint a bit, pulled out my box of Kadees and had a "new" caboose. I didn't even try to bargain on the price. Another guy had a huge inventory of beat-up used stuff for $10-12 a car. Not a lot of takers at his table.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
TONY
"If we never take the time, how can we ever have the time." - Merovingian (Matrix Reloaded)
Jim,
I have noticed this starting about 2 seasons ago. The 'deals' were not as good. The year before, I noticed the number of dealers had gone down, and the depth of the inventory was not that deep. I think a lot of the 'Gypsy' hobby dealers are getting tired of all the driving/expense of setting up; and thx
make a small profit because they chose to sell at a large discount. I find that I can still get 20-25% off on most any new release item.
Where I have seen high prices is on eBay with the 'Buy it Now' stuff. A good example is the new Atlas 'Trainman' PS-2 covered hoppers:
MSRP - 12.95
eBay - 9.95 and up....(plus shipping)
I paid 8.99 with no tax or shipping at a local train show a couple of weeks ago.(over a 30% discount) The general rule is to shop around, and know what the going 'street price' is before making an 'impulse' purchase.......
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
The vendors you cite may have been viewing the bids on "idiot" bay(Like that term! ) and noting that some are truly wacko. They've focused on the wacko bids.
They've assumed that wacko bidders may not only exist in the virtual world of the Internet.
Jon
I've noticed the same thing at the major shows around here. My thinking is that there is a higher concentration LHS's set up coupled with a higher concentration of attendees that don't normally step into a LHS. So the end result is higher prices due to more people attending willing to pay more because they likely don't know any better.
The smaller shows seem to have better deals, mainly because there tend to be less LHS's and more modelers attending that know their prices.
For me, trains shows are a crap shoot. I don't have an LHS any where near me, and the one an hour away is the size of my son's bedroom. What they mean for me is paying money to see things I can't see close up. I spent a lot of money at the World's Greatest Hobby on Rustic Rails Detail parts--I paid full price, but it was the first time I could see them. But I was going for track and roadbed. No one thought to bring any. No one had scratch building supplies either.
The best shows for me, because of my era, is the flea market type. I need old MDC kits for the most part and structures of the old west now out of production. My best shows have been local "club" shows. The entry costs are low and the table guys will dicker.
Timmonium was also good, as it was a combo of flea market and new stuff.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
It started here a couple of years ago as well....
Guys, another phenomena I have noticed of late are increased attendance at larger shows. This bodes well for the hobby, right? Perhaps, But I have noticed a lot of lookie loos and families that view this as a day out with the kids to "see the trains". I notice many leave empty-handed.
Don't get me wrong; any exposure to our hobby is a good thing. What I am saying is that the increased show attendance does not necessarily correlate to increased show or after show sales.
It is puzzling why the same guys show up with the same junk and leave with it. Like most of you, I like to get a junk piece and make it usable.
One of the largest shows of the year is this weekend so we will see: http://a2trainshow.com/
I have stopped going to the smaller shows. Sounds like that could be part of the problem. I do use epay for some stuff but you have to be patient.
I dont know Timonium much anymore having not had an oppertunity to go these last few years. But in the day that was the show you went to, might take you 3 acres of tables to go over but usually something good was availible.
I have pretty much quit spending money at the local shows here in Arkansas and all except for two have quit being in operational. A great part of the problem is that pricing is just too high. I think when you go, the first 4 hours the good stuff is cleared out and the rest of the time it's the left overs.
All things aside, I have found it to be a good source of out of production Walthers Kits and a few other things just dont exist in the Internet, ebay or LHS situation. However that is dependant on one or two specific Vendors who are pretty reliable with thier stock.
One thing I do is evaluate a potential item against my current skills in repair, repaint, re-building and perhaps chances of restoration to use again. Some items are good deals, some.. well.. you might as well throw the money into a trash can.
Our show in Pine Bluff has many children and operating layouts and deals with the Museum down there where the 819 shops are and it is pretty good. Just be cautious to understand that those Kit-built Athearn Blue-Box boxcars are not worth 16.00 apeice or a RTR caboose with a 1.50 LED is not worth 60 dollars.
Shows I have been to in the past usually ended up back in the LHS for a little bit of buying of things I can use that month at the workbench.
The best tables are those that engage the customers and shows genuine interest in the potential for business and perhaps a little bit of getting to know ye. The worst are those which the person hides 10 yards away chomping on a 20 dollar delivery pizza while trying to sell 10 dollars worth of badly maintained stock.
I haven't been to a train show since we moved here, but prior to that I was pretty underwhelmed. The Great Scale Model Train Show in Timonium, MD is good. But the others became either extremely junky or overpriced. I don't go to these things expecting steals, but reasonable prices and a good selection. I'm willing to pay more than I would online since I am standing there looking at the stuff, anyway.
There is one down here next week (Friday and Saturday). It is put on annually by one of the local MRR clubs, and I'll head over there just to head over there. If I come home with something, great, but if not I'll get to talk to some people and hopefully see some things I might not have otherwise.
- Mark
As a manufacturer I set up at several shows in my area. I am also a customer at these shows and have noticed the same thing. Years ago, before I was a vendor at shows, I recall there being a lot of individuals selling off excess equipment and the deals were pretty good. As the years wore on I noticed more and more "pro's" setting up. At first the shops doing this were clearing out overstock at fairly reasonable prices. One friend of mine who would do this ran a shop and used the local shows to clear excess. He would price, for example, Athearn cars with Kadees $5.00 each of 5 for $20.00. Lately I see very few individuals doing shows. I don't know the answer to this accept to say it is probably easier for "joe Modeler" to sell of excess on Ebay rather than go thru the trouble of hauling it all to a show, spending all day hagling over a dime, then packing it all up and hauling it home. As far as the dealers go, I can somewhat understand the pricing they set. go too low and they loose what ever profit they might make. A good friend of mine who does shows with me gave me some good insight into the pricing schedule he gets on inventory as a dealer. He discounts low enough to move product and also make a profit. He said that if the sales slow down to a certain point he will get out of the business. It doesn't make any sense to sell product at a loss. As far as what I manufacture and sell...I know what my costs are and what my profit margin has to be to stay in business. I sell my product at shows and on my website for far less than my competitors. Yet I still see people buying from them and listen to people complaining about my price increase last year. Again, there is no sense in selling product at a loss. Just my $.02
Dan Pikulski
I wasn't too impressed with the WGH show here recently. Prices were much higher than in years past, and nobody was willing to negotiate. I did, however, score some N scale boxcars pretty cheap--the vendor wanted $10 for 3, but was willing to do 4-5 for the same price simply because she wanted rid of them. Several people said that there were rumors that the facility holding the show was charging $190 for a spot, and $30 per table. With fees like that, it's no wonder why most of the smaller vendors didn't bother with it. Too bad, as they're usually great for deals!
Like many of you, I like taking someone else's "junk" and fixing it up. However, most of the older items at the show were a bit overpriced. $35 for a scrap Athearn Geep with multiple missing or damaged parts? I don't think so!
I don't go to train shows for looking for bargains. If I buy anything there it will usually be some hard-to-find or out-of-production piece that I'm not likely to find elsewhere. I might buy some everyday item that I need just to save a trip to the LHS. I won't say I'd never buy something used, but I find it unlikely that I would. I have enough junk of my own, I don't need to buy somebody else's. I've also seen vendors who have grossly overpriced items and I'm sure they figure with all the traffic, they are likely to find some newbie with a fat wallet who doesn't know the true value of what is for sale and will pay any price if they see something they like.
Another reason I think shows aren't as popular a place to get things is because of how many there are. Oversaturation of train shows dilutes the number of people buying things. I think it was in 2004 that there were 5 Major national shows in Denver, 1 each in Colorado Springs and Greeley. Then we had 3 major local shows instead of one, a local show in Estes Park. And a couple of conventions with shows/ swap meets. Plus our normal bi-monthly swap meets. It was crazy. Two of the major national shows were on back to back weekends. It was right after that I began to notice the attendance (both vendor and spectator) at shows dwindling. The last really good deals I remember getting at a show was the November GATS of 2001. That was the first time I had ever seen Proto-2000 locomotives brand new for $25-30 each.
My recent dissapointment at the local train show was not the prices, but the dwindling participation of local MRR clubs. Our community happens to be one of the annual stops for the GATS. In past years you could count on viewing a number of portable layouts set up in all scales, some manned by local clubs, others by individuals. But this last year you could literally count the number of display layouts on one hand. In fact the participation in general was so meager, that half of the arena was blocked off and dark. I don't think you can blame E-bay for that.
I have figured out what is wrong with my brain! On the left side nothing works right, and on the right side there is nothing left!