I have a pretty good idea what went bad, but wondering why? Bought a New Class J #611 with the Paragon sound for $+++.++ bucks.
Broke it in like my Bachman Steamers, PK 1 and 2 and Athearns. Out of the box it had dual traction wheels in stalled. Hum, think that was part of the problem.
Hooked up 15 cars and pulled like heck. Added 5 more cars and still dragged like heck. At this point I was pretty pleased. Finaly made it up to 30 cars and still running fine. Started to make a sqeeking sound, OK drivers needed a lub. Finaly picked a turn out but it was cooking around s70 MPH. It was time for bed and did not think anything about it.
Next day, lubed the drives and try to run it with a 20 car drag. Could not see the engine but souned like the drivers where slippng. OK need to clean the wheels.
Clean the drivers and tried again with the 25 car's. Hum, same thing. Finaly drooped the drag to 3 cars and it moved. Added a 4th and it was dead again.
At this point knew the sound, sounds like my Athearns that have the flywheels slipping on the Arm of the motor. This is a easy fix, done it many times. But with having the the J for only 3 days don't thing I should fiddel with a $320.00 engine under warranty.
Bench has a 2% grade, what should the max drag be?
One thing I will tell BL is they should cover this and break in. Manuel sure covred the sound system which is great but not the hard parts of the steamer.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
Ken,
You mentioned that your BLI 4-8-4 came with traction tires. It's possible that in your exuberance to "lube" your drivers, you also got lube on the backside (or underside) of your traction tires. If that happens, your drivers will spin inside the traction tires and your locomotive will appear to be just "spinning it's wheels".
Ken, are the drivers spinning at all, or are they stationary? If the former, thoroughly clean all the lubricant from behind your traction tires and your new N&W J will pull like a horse again.
Hope that helps...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Overlubrication may be your issue, but you should certainly be able to see if the drivers are turning or not. If they are turning, then that's it, but if they are not turning and you can hear the motor running something is wrong. I am pretty sure BLI will take care of you. IF YOU ARE VERY CAREFUL, you may be able to take it apart and determine the problem, but I bet BLI would prefer you just to contact them. They will likely replace the loco and they have an in-house repair person who will fix that engine, and they will either re-sell it or it will go to someone else who has a problem like yours.
The BLI J is a very good engine, and pulling 50 decently rolling freight cars isn't going to hurt it. Fifty scale 85' NMRA weighted six wheel truck heavyweight passenger cars I don't know about. I am not going to dig mine out, but I think BLI recommends you lube ALL the exterior moving parts before operation. Before someone jumps in and says they ought to do it, the reason they do not is so that even if some worker gets heavy handed they won't end up with a loco with a screwed up paint job.
You do have good taste in steam engines !
cudaken wrote: I have a pretty good idea what went bad, but wondering why? Bought a New Class J #611 with the Paragon sound for $+++.++ bucks. Broke it in like my Bachman Steamers, PK 1 and 2 and Athearns. Out of the box it had dual traction wheels in stalled. Hum, think that was part of the problem. Hooked up 15 cars and pulled like heck. Added 5 more cars and still dragged like heck. At this point I was pretty pleased. Finaly made it up to 30 cars and still running fine. Started to make a sqeeking sound, OK drivers needed a lub. Finaly picked a turn out but it was cooking around s70 MPH. It was time for bed and did not think anything about it. Next day, lubed the drives and try to run it with a 20 car drag. Could not see the engine but souned like the drivers where slippng. OK need to clean the wheels. Clean the drivers and tried again with the 25 car's. Hum, same thing. Finaly drooped the drag to 3 cars and it moved. Added a 4th and it was dead again. At this point knew the sound, sounds like my Athearns that have the flywheels slipping on the Arm of the motor. This is a easy fix, done it many times. But with having the the J for only 3 days don't thing I should fiddel with a $320.00 engine under warranty. Bench has a 2% grade, what should the max drag be? One thing I will tell BL is they should cover this and break in. Manuel sure covred the sound system which is great but not the hard parts of the steamer. Cuda Ken
Send it back for repairs. They will cover it. Be sure to get the authorization to send it in for tracking reasons.
I have two the N&W J's, and no problems with either one of them.
Whuts "dual traction wheels in stalled"? I quote.
ARE we 'lubing' 2 rubber tires on a 4-8-4? Brilliant.
If you do send it in, be prepared to wait 6 to 8 weeks and maybe a little longer. I sent one diesel in on Nov. 1st and one on Nov. 10th and haven't gotten either back yet. The original 'estimate' was 4 to 6 weeks. Either they're very short handed in the repair shop, or they're getting deluged with returns/repairs. I really don't look for mine to be returned 'til the end of the month.
JaRRell
If the wheels are spiining, you probably got oil all over them. If the wheels don't turn, it's likely the motor shaft is turning inside the universal coupling inside.
I HATE traction tires. The wheels whould ALWAYS spin when the loco is overloaded, otherwise you are risking burning up the motor.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker wrote: If the wheels are spiining, you probably got oil all over them. If the wheels don't turn, it's likely the motor shaft is turning inside the universal coupling inside. I HATE traction tires. The wheels whould ALWAYS spin when the loco is overloaded, otherwise you are risking burning up the motor. --Randy
I'm with you, Randy. If the real world locos don't use rubber tires, it seems a bit over the top to place them on a nice model, no matter how little it pulls. Besides, I dislike even the idea of fiddling with costly locomotives, and having to re-tread one seems more ridiculous than sublime.
Just my way of looking at it....
Don Gibson wrote: ARE we 'lubing' 2 rubber tires on a 4-8-4? Brilliant.
You ask a question and before you get an answer you throw in "brilliant"?
Merry Christmas,
Jon
jondrd wrote: Don Gibson wrote: ARE we 'lubing' 2 rubber tires on a 4-8-4? Brilliant. You ask a question and before you get an answer you throw in "brilliant"? Merry Christmas, Jon
He could be from Great Britain.
You know they say "Brilliant" all the time.
It means "cool you're really smart"
"What a Brilliant response"
Jolly good show, eh. What?
I'll stick to what I learned and out of trouble.
I think you should send the unit back to BLI.
I have resisted installing traction tires on all of my engines. Figured I can add a helper if need be to handle a train.
I did have a PCM 4-8-4 give me 16 cars with metal wheels dependable service and my M1a got to about 24 cars or so before having real trouble. Again without traction tires. I probably cheated by not having the entire train on the 3% grade. My Heavy Mike can start a 15 car train on a grade after a full stop if needed.
I think between 15-25 cars depending on grade is plenty for a 4-8-4. You can always add more engines for more cars if you are able to do so.
I know that MR likes to give a number expressed in ounces for drawbar pull. But it is not really adequate. No one really takes the time, space or effort to "Lug down" a model steam engine to stall with a max load of cars.
Hence the boasting that might vary between one particular engine and another of the same class.
There was a video of three Bowser Heavy Decapods handling a 50+ car coal drag on the BSME's website. That is pretty big train that I know of in the model world. I did start about 40 feet worth of rolling stock with plastic wheels and a variety of weights on a level basement floor several times with double headed articulated steam but they required so much slip and the slack has to be seen to be believed.
Driline wrote: jondrd wrote: Don Gibson wrote: ARE we 'lubing' 2 rubber tires on a 4-8-4? Brilliant. You ask a question and before you get an answer you throw in "brilliant"? Merry Christmas, Jon He could be from Great Britain. You know they say "Brilliant" all the time. It means "cool you're really smart""What a Brilliant response"
Only if you are drinking Guiness
"Next day, lubed the drives and try to run it with a 20 car drag. Could not see the engine but souned like the drivers where slippng. OK need to clean the wheels."
Hum, what I typed is not what I was trying to say. What I was trying to say was"Next day, lubed the drives and try to run it with a 20 car drag. Could not see the engine but souned like the flywheel was slippng.
Soory I missed this one up so bad folks. Either the worm gear bit the dust or the flywheel was slipping on the arm of the motor. Either way something was stripped out in the engine it self. It got to the point it could not pull it self forward, could back up but that was it.
With the egine off the track, I could turn the drive wheels with little effort.
Took the J back to K-10 trains and Ken gave me another J. Here where the story sort off get funny, odd and sicking.
Breaking in the new J with no load! Running it forward and backwards and changing the speed a lot. I was on E-bay and there seemed to be a great deal on BL1, as I started to hit the buy it now button the J stopped and fell on it's side on a straight?
Went to look at it and was stunned with what I saw! Drive rods on the right side just fell off? Lucky part is I found the bolt and washer and able to install them. It is running fine again.
Ever hear the frases "be carefull what you wish for"? That is how I am starting to fell about the J.
I will up date Sunday. Soory I missed posted the orginal information.
The little bolts holding the drive rods on the right side will unscrew if they are not properly tightened. (Remember when they had left handed threads on some lug nuts?) Do not overtighten - whole 'nuther set of worse problems. A little (emphasize LITTLE) purple Loctite is great on these.
I love traction tires on steam locos. I know how to put them on correctly, and have not had any problems in the last 20 years. Feel free to hate them if you like; post about a litany of problems if you like, but please hold back on the BS about no non-prototypical pieces on your little steam engine with plastic parts and/or an electric motor.
Cuda Ken,
That J derailment had to be a monumental spike of anxiety. Glad to hear it wasn't a disaster and was easily restored to working order.
Want to thank you for posting this problem. I'm going to check my BLI steamers to make sure I don't have a "situation" developing.
Hope you have uneventful running in the future.
Jon, the J is acting well. New one seems to stall more when I sound the whistle but cleaning the rails will help I am sure. Plus when I go DCC shortly that all so will help.
Do I regreat buying the J, well just a little but not much.
Dollar for Dollar I like the Bachmans the best. Reason I am a Hot Rodder and like to fiddel. Taking some that is OK at best and making it better is what I live for. When I figuer out how to add a live coupler's to the front of the GS-4's doubled headed I am 89% sure they will drag more cars than than the J BL1.
At $80.00 each I am not afraid of cracking the GS-4's and adding weight. BL1 J on the other hand there is no way I am opeing it till after the warranty! $320.00 is still sort of big buck's for me.
As far as the sound, well still don't like the quality. But it is neat to have it move around the bench.