OK, I made the jump to steam and I Love it! Started on the cheap and bought Bachmans GS-4's DC only. With a little help they pull OK with weight added will pull a 15 car drag up a 2% grade. Big thumps up on the GS-4's.
My Niagara on the other hand may be going back to K-10 trains. Seems the tender does not like the 18" turns, few that are left. Engine free running works great with no tender. Add tender, well, that the reason it is going back.
If the Niagara goes back, it will be used for a trade for a Broadway engine. I had a Broadway Niagara on layaway but we found out it needs a 21.5 turn, so I won't be getting it. I think the reason it need's that big of a turn is the same reason my Bachman Niagara is having problems, the tender.
I do not have a lot to spend, say $250.00 (did I say that?) max. That is with trade in.
Is the tender limted factor on the turns with a Broadway 4-8-4 can make? Bachmans drive wheels float from side to side so with no tender the Niagara runs great. Or are the Broadway drivers fixed so they don't move?
I like this
Will this make it around the bench? Any other ideas?? I like the J1E-4-6-4 Hudson as well.
Any other ideas? If so if you could post PIC or links that would help a lot. Only engines I know by name is the GS-4's and Niagara's.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
Personally, I would recommend staying away from the larger Northern (Niagara) or similar size engines if you have 18" inch curves. That N & W engine you have a picture of may make it around the curves, but don't think it will like it very much...
If you're interested in steam, and especially larger steam, I would go with a BLI Hudson or one of their Mikados. Both of those engines will make the 18" curves and are very nice. You probably could easily get one of those in the $150 range.
Also, if you're looking to save some money, but still get a very nice steam engine, perhaps you could consider the Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0. It has very nice detail, and is very popular engine. Plus it goes for somewhere around $75 to $100 depending on where you go.
Here is a picture of the Mikado: http://www.broadway-limitedwest.com/images/lightmikado/nyc.jpg
Here is the Bachmann 2-8-0: http://www.cchobbies.com/hoscale/loco/locohtm/htmphoto/160-83605.jpg
Hey thanks for the answers and the links. Guess the main reason I still have the 18" turns is up till the Niagara all my engines could make the turn's. With out adding any bench I can make 1 of the 18" turns 20" and the out side one 23". The other 18" turns are on passing sidings and spurs. Rest of the bench is 24 to 28 turns.
I think the main reason the Niagara tender will not nake the turns is the axels are way to tight. Front truck axels are all but locked up, rear are out of a linement and all will pick a turn out.
For what ever reason I do like larger engines, most of my diesel fleet are 12 wheelers.
I will see what K-10 trains have in the way of Spectrum clunkers, but would like to try a broadway. Any other ideas and thanks for the PIC!
cudaken wrote: OK, I made the jump to steam and I Love it! Started on the cheap and bought Bachmans GS-4's DC only. With a little help they pull OK with weight added will pull a 15 car drag up a 2% grade. Big thumps up on the GS-4's. My Niagara on the other hand may be going back to K-10 trains. Seems the tender does not like the 18" turns, few that are left. Engine free running works great with no tender. Add tender, well, that the reason it is going back. If the Niagara goes back, it will be used for a trade for a Broadway engine. I had a Broadway Niagara on layaway but we found out it needs a 21.5 turn, so I won't be getting it. I think the reason it need's that big of a turn is the same reason my Bachman Niagara is having problems, the tender. I do not have a lot to spend, say $250.00 (did I say that?) max. That is with trade in. Is the tender limted factor on the turns with a Broadway 4-8-4 can make? Bachmans drive wheels float from side to side so with no tender the Niagara runs great. Or are the Broadway drivers fixed so they don't move? I like this Will this make it around the bench? Any other ideas?? I like the J1E-4-6-4 Hudson as well. Any other ideas? If so if you could post PIC or links that would help a lot. Only engines I know by name is the GS-4's and Niagara's. Cuda Ken
Cuda Ken,
If you're thinking of a BLI Hudson check out Trainworld ad in Model Railroader (or Trainworld.com). With shipping and sale($129.99/unit) you're looking at like $138.00 to your door. Units are DCC/QSI sound. Make sure you order a second run Hudson; the 2nd runs are truly new and improved over 1st run.
They have other BLI's on closeout but per other forum members input don't go too big on the steamers or you'll run into tracking problems on tight radii.
Jon
My advice: keep it small. The Mike would be a good choice witht he 18" radius curves. Larger locos will jus be frustrating. Trainworld has good deals on other BLI locos, if they have any left. Amazing how low you can get some of the earlier releases for. My father in law got the PRR M1a for $130 fromt hem, but that would probably be too big for the 18" radius curves. But the Mike was lower priced to begin with.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
'Cuda:
Steam, in general doesn't like 18" radus, and shorter engines with smaller drivers are a better bet.
WHAT engine will fit WHAT curve - is a matter of trial & error. STEAM, because of side rod coupling, is less tolerant of curves than diesel.
0-4-0 'Mother Hubbards', or 2-6-0 'Moguls' (by name) would be a start. Small engines negotiate tight curves - and pull less cars up a 2% grade.
THE PROBLEM is it's a trade-off. Good luck.
cudaken,
I have several of the Bachmann 4-8-4s running on the BRVRR. A Niagara, a N&W #611 and SP GS-4. In addition, I have two large BLI steamers, a 2-8-2 Mikado and a NYC Hudson.
While the outer main on the BRVRR is 22 1/2"-radius and the inner main 20 1/2" -radius, there are 18" curves on the reverse loop and the sidings. All of my big steamers navigate the 18"-radius turns and snap-switches on the BRVRR without trouble.
If your Niagara tender is having trouble with 18"-radius curves, the tight axles you mentioned, plus too-tight wheel gage may be culprit. One other thing to check, make sure there is enough clearance between the loco and the tender to allow it to 'swing' on the tight curves. My 'Mike' had this problem. I just enlarged the hole on the tender draw bar a little and the problem was solved.
With a little tweaking, I think you could make your existing locos run on your 18"-radius track. They may look a little strange, but they will run.
Good luck!
Remember its your railroad
Allan
Track to the BRVRR Website: http://www.brvrr.com/
Selector, do you have a link for the site?
Well, it is offical, I am done with fiddling with the Niagara. It is in the box and off it goes to the Happy Hunting Grounds Yard at Bachman defects deparment. I really want to make it work, only one I have failed at. Seems the rear trucks wheels will not stay in NMRA gauge on the 4-8-4. I pulled all but the rear axel on the tender and still picks the turnouts. Added weight and still of it goes.
But I am happy, play Bach's, Brandenburg Concert No 2 in F-major. GS-4 Daylight is dragging a 14 car train. GS-4 War Baby has a team of BL-2's has helpers dragging 51 cars at 30% thottle. First DCC unit is coming. Yes, I am in bless right now, all is right in my HO world and real world for now.
Don, I understand that it is a compermise (spell check) and so is life. But just like my life I take the bad and make it work as best as I can. I will dump the 18" turns Wendesday.
Now, if K-10 still has that 4-6-6-4 Challanger! Hum, I wonder if he got the Athearn Big Boy in yet.
Stayed tune to see what I drag home Wednesday. Oh, off the long hair stuff and doing some Joan Jett and the Blackhearts. Are band opned for them 20 + years ago. But that is a driffrent story.
Boiler Head Ken post again.
cudaken wrote: Selector, do you have a link for the site? Well, it is offical, I am done with fiddling with the Niagara. It is in the box and off it goes to the Happy Hunting Grounds Yard at Bachman defects deparment. I really want to make it work, only one I have failed at. Seems the rear trucks wheels will not stay in NMRA gauge on the 4-8-4. I pulled all but the rear axel on the tender and still picks the turnouts. Added weight and still of it goes. But I am happy, play Bach's, Brandenburg Concert No 2 in F-major. GS-4 Daylight is dragging a 14 car train. GS-4 War Baby has a team of BL-2's has helpers dragging 51 cars at 30% thottle. First DCC unit is coming. Yes, I am in bless right now, all is right in my HO world and real world for now. Don, I understand that it is a compermise (spell check) and so is life. But just like my life I take the bad and make it work as best as I can. I will dump the 18" turns Wendesday. Now, if K-10 still has that 4-6-6-4 Challanger! Hum, I wonder if he got the Athearn Big Boy in yet. Stayed tune to see what I drag home Wednesday. Oh, off the long hair stuff and doing some Joan Jett and the Blackhearts. Are band opned for them 20 + years ago. But that is a driffrent story. Boiler Head Ken post again.
http://www.broadway-limited.com/ will get you to Outlet Direct, but I see no Mikados there now. They show up often, so if you can sit on your hands for a few weeks, it will be worth it. However, www.trainworld.com will have a BLI J1e Hudson to you inside of 1o days. They often want a first order faxed, so be prepared for them to rebuff you on the phone.
If you want a top notch, holy-cow-I didn't-know-they-made-them-this-good Mikado, see www.tonystrainexchange.com for a Trix that normally MSRP's for around $500 for $229.
Is the Trix Mikado really better than the BLI? I've considered both, but just from looking at pictures, I liked the BLI better...
Is the Loksound in the Trix better than the QSI in the other loco?
Maybe I'm wrong, I just would have thought the BLI was a better bet.
NYCentral1 wrote:Is the Trix Mikado really better than the BLI? I've considered both, but just from looking at pictures, I liked the BLI better...Is the Loksound in the Trix better than the QSI in the other loco? Maybe I'm wrong, I just would have thought the BLI was a better bet.
NYC1,
Both the BLI and Trix Mikes are very good runners and beautifully detailed. Here's how I would rate the major pluses of each one:
Trix Mike:
BLI Mike:
Some argue that the QSI decoder has a better sound than the LokSound 2.0 decoder. With that I would say yes and no. As previously noted, the BLI Mike may have a better whistle, but the Trix Mike has a nicer chuff - to me. The sound of the bells on either one are clear and realistic. The BLI Mike gets the nod for a better decay after you press F1 to turn it off.
If given the choice, I'll take performance over sound any day! IMO, the low-end response of the Trix Mike is what sets it apart from the BLI and why I think it's a slightly better locomotive. You have to determine what things are important to you.
NYC1, if you're interested, you can read a review about the Trix Mike in the MR July 2004 issue.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Ken,
I agree with Crandell. Consider the Trix 2-8-2 Mike if you really want a well operating and beautifully detailed locomotive. (Besides, I won't send you the E-Z Command until you do. )
Here's the link for the Trix Mike on Tony's Train Exchange web site:
http://www.tonystrains.com/locomotive/trix-marklin.htm
Seriously, either one is a fine locomotive. The BLI Hudsons are nice, too.
Boy today was a tuff day! I went to K-10 Trains and it was busy, not with the normal customer's that can pretty much help them selfs. But it was the Christmas I want a train under the tree crowed. Retuned the ill fated Niagara and asked Ken if he had the Athearn Big Boy, nope they ran out before they filled is order. did he have a Athearn Challanger, he did but said I did not want it, big pain in the caboose and will not stay on the rails. Plus the (soory I can not spell the word for dual drivers that piviot) will not pull well. That not what I have read but do I know?
Looked at Broadway's, having my best intrest at heart he keep't tell me no. Worst part was he was so busy, took 20 minutes between the no's! I was to the point I was ready to walk out with nothing. I was a little PO'ed the fact he help so many people and left me sitting. But I all so under stood why so I got over it.
Ken all so keept telling me to get another GS-4. I have two, how many do I need? Now if they could be doubled headed I would have done it! But not ready to hack on them yet.
Finaly I picked a Bachman Spectrum 4-8-2 light moutain, it took 2 and half hours to do this buy. Hopped in the car and left, but I was bugged. I wanted to make the move to a real steam engine. I was getting ready to head to my real car reapir shop to beg some wheel weights so the 4-8-2 could drag 10 to 12 cars.
That is when I snapped, went around the block and back to K-10 trains. I am a little sick to my stomach right now, call it buyers remorse. It is still sitting in the car in fact. What if it will not work on the 18 turns? (Broadway says it will and Ken from K-10 said more than likely). I guess I am a pround owner of a DCC Quantum Sound N&W J 4-8-4 # 611.
Wish me luck. I swore I would never spend over $150.00 for a engine. Most I have spent to date is $80.00 and that was for the GS-4's!
Little weak in the Knees and filling a little Green again, Cuda Ken
it'll work - they said it would... if it doesn't get them [BLI] for false advertizing
I hope I don't have the same problems as you Ken... I dug high and low for the operating specs of the B'mann Niagara & couldn't find anything specific... other than they track "OK" on small curves... So i went ahead and commandeered one. now after seeing your troubles I'm kinda feeling it was a mistake... depending on how "small" my track decides to be, i have anywhere from 19 to 22" curves (currently... *%^$#@ sectional junk track)... hope it runs
If not - guess it's going to be a "shelf queen" until the club finishes enough of the layout so we can run trains. Well that, or the LHS is going to get a fair chunk of change from me when I get some EZ track (the "layout" I have is an on-the-(tile)floor oval). However, I do plan to start on a semi-permanent layout (it's gotta come with me when I move out from my parents' house in 2-3 years) that I can run it on.
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
I firmly believe that the key to enjoying steam is great track. No matter who makes your steamer, it's bound because if its long rigid wheelbase to find any flaw in your track.
Unsecured sectional track is not going to tolerate steam very well. A 4-axle diesel might do just fine, but probably not anything in medium or bigger steam.
My suggestion is to work really hard on tuning your track; replacing sections on curves with soldered flextrack if you can, checking gauge, fastening it down... If the fastened down thing won't work for you, I heartily suggest you consider Kato Unitrack.
Just my two cents. I've run a lot of steam in both HO and N and found that the weakest link was always my track. This time I spent more time on my track than on anything else.
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
I KNEW I forgot something!
Right now I have (really) iffy trackwork, and the locos I have can handle it rather well. Biggest loco I've run on the track is a Hudson, and other than it balking at every single little dirty spot in the track (it's gotta be the "pick up left rail power from loco and right rail power from the tender" wiring scheme), it seems to handle the track relatively nicely.
Dan I think the main reason the Niagara was a problem was the tender. It as a 2 axel front truck then 5 to 6 fixed axles behinde the front truck. Try a GS-4 first, the tender does not have the fixed wheel's on the tender.
Slector my friend, I think run steam on a bench is a matter of luck as well. You have to have the basic (soory about the spelling) idea, and a engine that is right as well.
My bench, well is not that great. Some of my 12 wheels still don't like it.
Well I broke out the J and I was stuned! Not being very bright, I did not think any sounds would work till I went DCC. I was wrong as you people know. I am using the MRC 9500 and it is draging 22 cars with it's traction driver with no effort.
Now what is the bang sound when the engine is not moving? Sounds like it threw some rods! About a hour now and no miss happes. Just need to hide the box with the $ on it so wife does not see it.
Ken
I better not say anything because all of my BLI is really large steam that requires at least 24" to operate properly.
I am acquiring a small roster of small steam of the 4-4-0 type to handle the smaller curves in the future. The Modular Layout has really large radius and I might get the oppertunity to run on that with the big stuff.
I will say that the PRR J1's monster tender with it's 8 axles requires alot of room. However the Niagra's solid wheelbase might have it beat.
Safety Valve wrote: ...I will say that the PRR J1's monster tender with it's 8 axles requires alot of room. However the Niagra's solid wheelbase might have it beat.
...I will say that the PRR J1's monster tender with it's 8 axles requires alot of room. However the Niagra's solid wheelbase might have it beat.
You got that right! I have both, and the Niagara will point out my mediocre track work well before the J1 complains. However, the Niagara likes 22" curves a lot more than the J1 does.
I have done so much track tweaking in the past six weeks that I am now afraid to get the Niagara back from the fellow who is installing the upgrade QSI chip. What if I have to fiddle with all those places anew?
cudaken wrote: Well I broke out the J and I was stuned! Not being very bright, I did not think any sounds would work till I went DCC. I was wrong as you people know. I am using the MRC 9500 and it is draging 22 cars with it's traction driver with no effort. Now what is the bang sound when the engine is not moving? Sounds like it threw some rods! About a hour now and no miss happes. Just need to hide the box with the $ on it so wife does not see it.
OH my God!!! It's Happened!!!
You're now officially "hooked" on sound equipped steamers! I'm kind of fond of #611 myself. I know what you mean about hiding a box with a price sticker on it. Wait till you hear some F units with sound.
Brad
EMD - Every Model Different
ALCO - Always Leaking Coolant and Oil
CSX - Coal Spilling eXperts
The "Bang!" is more of Chum-chumpth... chum-chumpth with a distinct metallic sound as if alot of weight is being moved.
That is the air compressor.
You are now part of the Sound Steam.
My favorite is the Turbo Generator Spin up on the M1a PRR 4-8-2 just before it begins to move. It is at the absolute limit of my hearing in hertz but I can enjoy it.
There is a video somewhere on the forums that has a full ABBA set of FA units with sound chanting under load lugging a train thru some switches.
I have a set of ABBA F units from Broadway in the B&O that are fully equipped with sound and DCC. That was a gift to me financed by extra hours (Long hours) at work. I had some teething troubles with them with gaps in the speaker and one service call. Am getting ready to slave the A/B pairs so consisting will be easier to make and break.
Sound is very nice, it is Pricey.
I hear tell that the new QSI upgrade chips allow steamers to "Drift" when the throttle is reduced and may try one of those.
Basically Broadway kept me in the hobby by releasing steamers that perform well and the only problem is that they are expensive. Very much so.
Well the Bachman's are rueling the bench again. The J started making a sqeeking sound last night and was dragging 30 cars and picked a turn out. No big deal it happens and it was under a pretty heavy load.
Tonight I hooked a ligther load to the J and it would not make the drag. Un coupled the J and went at it again, the squeeking was bad. Made the bench but it was time for a lube. Pulled it and lubed the drive arms. I think where thing went bad is when I tried to clean the engines wheels. On muy other engines I use a heavy paper towel with cleaner soaked into it. I use a cheap life like thottel for power. It would not engauge the drivers but made sound. Hum power pack is to small.
Placed it back on the B line that is powered by a MRC 9500. Same thing, sit's there and make sound but will not move? OK, trouble shooting says to return to defaults settings in DC place the wand over the tender roof showned in "Steam Model Specifications". I be dang I cannot find that section in the booklet thay came with the J.
Any help on this?? Will mess with it at work Friday.
I do not have that loco, but I would guess that the reed switch is located at the immediate rear of the coal box. You shut off track power, place the rounded end of the wand down against the rear wall of the coal box and then restore track power. At the same time, slowly wave the wand back towards the rear of the tender for 3/4", and then right and left along the back wall of the coal box. The loco should give three hoots or the light will blink.
Remember, thereafter it will respond only to address "03", or if you are still in the stone age, it will now move as you dial in more power. Note that the loco needs about 7 volts to get moving since the first roughly 6 volts are taken up by the sound system and decoder.
(I hope other readers will accept the "stone age" cut in the spirit it was intended...a gentle ribbing, nothing more.)
Ken, finally, the BLI steamers are not lubed at the factory...only the motor and drive, not the running gear and axle bearings. I advise you to lube it after about one hour of dry running, and even then you will find it a loco that needs another two solid hours to break in. All BLI steamers seem to be this way. My K4s, especially, had a rhythmic squeek that took a good hour to go away after I lubed it.
cudaken wrote: Dan I think the main reason the Niagara was a problem was the tender. It as a 2 axel front truck then 5 to 6 fixed axles behinde the front truck. Try a GS-4 first, the tender does not have the fixed wheel's on the tender. Slector my friend, I think run steam on a bench is a matter of luck as well. You have to have the basic (soory about the spelling) idea, and a engine that is right as well. My bench, well is not that great. Some of my 12 wheels still don't like it. Well I broke out the J and I was stuned! Not being very bright, I did not think any sounds would work till I went DCC. I was wrong as you people know. I am using the MRC 9500 and it is draging 22 cars with it's traction driver with no effort. Now what is the bang sound when the engine is not moving? Sounds like it threw some rods! About a hour now and no miss happes. Just need to hide the box with the $ on it so wife does not see it. Ken
Yes, well, you see... I already *have* the Niagara. If it doesn't like my track - oh well, I need new track anyway (the stuff I have needs more tweaking than the Mantua locos I have... and they both needed a lot). As I stated earlier, this would just force me to get EZ-track a little faster than I had originally planned on (need it for my dorm room...). I also am part of a club, so I can run it there - well, after the trackwork is finished.. LOL!
Lack of moving was a easy fix, seem I did not have the plug in tight. But there is a bigger problem! The J is DOA! Seems the worm gear or flywheel is slipping and drivers won't pull. Motor is running like heck but will not pull it's self around the board. Sounds cool, hum so does the MRC 312 sound Station at $60.00.
Good thing the Bachmans are running well otrher wise I be PO'ed. Don't sell the cheap stuff short, Bachmans with a little weight added will Keep Your Need For Steam in check.
Now where did I park the Proto E-6's?