Hello,
My wife and I have been investigating building a layout in our basement for the last few weeks. General information about DCC, basic layout design, and landscaping ideas are easy to find.
Finding information on rail roading, more specifically north eastern United States around 1900 is a lot more challanging. Even the local library only had books that focused on the American west, or Victorian England.
Are there other Model Railroaders who focus on this time period? Does anyone know of any good sites to visit? Wikipedia had info on locomotives, but what kind of cars would be common then? What kind of freight would they be carrying?
Thank you in advance.
Roy
Your first move is some ectended time spent internet searching, to find out what reality was back then. Odds are, books on the subject will be hit and miss. One guy might have written one book on one railroad that fits your qualifications, but there probably won't be twenty books on the same railroad and period. When you are internet searching, you are looking first for pointers to a specific book, then looking for enough information to actually locate and buy the book.
If you get really lucky, you will find a large database on the right railroad in the right era and save the cost of the book. If no books pop up, you can at least look for specific railroad names to use to expand your search.
Once you have the hard info in mind, then you face another problem. The time period you are looking at falls under the general modelling category of "Old Time", also often called OT. OT equipment is scarce, and getting scarcer rapidly. Most of the companies that used to make it have either gone out of business, or have been bought by bigger companies, with new production schedules a big question mark. MDC made a 2-8-0, and a 2-6-0 in OT steam, but MDC stopped production, was bought by another company, which in turn was bought by a third company, and none of the OT locomotives is back in production yet. IHC and Model Power are still in business (one was bought out but is still producing) but neither is currently making OT locos.
The companies that used to make OT equipment are Model Die Casting, or MDC, with IHC and Model Power making some but not much. Bachman Spectrum offers a 4-6-0 from that approximate period, which you could base a model railroad on, and they also offer a Shay and a Climax which fit the period, but are geared so slow as to be difficult to have much fun running a lot of trains with. Bachman makes a non-Spectrum 4-4-0 which has a rep for poor pulling power and poor performance. MDC has a brand new 4-4-0 out but it is expensive. Athearn is supposed to come out with a 4-4-0 aytime now, but it is even more expensive. Figure $200 for the MDC and $250 to $275 or the Athearn, until you see different. 4-4-0's are a little too old for the time period you specify, they were more common around the civil war period, say 1860.
Outside of the new engines listed above, you can find out of production OT equipment at train shows, and also at two places I know of on the web. One is Jay's trains out of Florida:
http://www.jaystrains.com/HO-HOn3/Locomotives/hosteam.htm
The other is Cherry Creek Hobbies:
http://www.cchobbies.com/
If you find something you need, get it sooner, rather than later, the older stuff is drying up fast. The outlook for older rolling stock is better, and several companies offer buildings from the correct time period. The big internet dealers, like discount model trains, and internet trains, do buyouts, larger lots of unsold stock from hobby stores and bankruptcies, and have OT stuff from time to time, usually at good prices.
It's out there, but you'll have to work for it some.
Hope this helps, if you have any questions, ask. Spacemouse from this forum, and Bob Gretch are working in the same general era, and both know more than me, so if they offer advice, best to put it to use.
Roy,
I model an early 1900s Shortline in North Central Texas. I'm glad to see another early steam guy out there. We are truly out numbered by all these crazy big steam and modern diesel era folks. :) As far as freight gos just about every thing moved by rail in the old days. The varity of car types was vast compaired to today. More towns and many more smaller industies of all kinds were on line as well.
Heres a few links that might be of interest to you.
1. The Saint Charles Car Company - It was one of the thirteen car builders that merged to form ACF in 1899. Many of the Saint Charles Cars would be typical for a 1900 era railroad. http://www.win.org/library/services/lhgen/SCcarco/CarCo3.htm
2. Rob's PRR Page. Has diagrams and drawings of cars and RR structures. Quite a few would fit 1900 +(-). A great place to vist even if you are not a PRR fan. If you are a PRR fan its a treasure trove. http://prr.railfan.net/
3. Steam Era Freight Cars. Here you will find info on cars from all periods of steam.http://steamfreightcars.com/
4.Rail Road History Links. This should keep you busy for a night or two. http://www.trainweb.org/wyomingrails/rrhist.html
5. Here is a place to Check out Historical USGS maps of the North East. Some have track diagrams. http://historical.maptech.com/
6. Westerfied Kits. Great kits of all sorts of cars many that will fit right in on a 1900's era pike. These are resin kits and are very detailed. The kits are not too hard to build because the instructions are good enough but they take time to build and can be tedious. The resulting models are beautiful. It would be hard to find anything better looking or more accurate even in brass. They would be great if you need just one or a few of a certain type or have lots of spare time.to build the fleet. They also have old time car Orders on CDs that could be a big help in determing the cars you want on the roster for your prototype or one you might use as insperation for a freelance layout. http://users.multipro.com/westerfield/
7. LaBelle Kits. They have a number of kits that will fit your era perfectly. These are wood craftsman kits, but even if your new don't let that stop you. They are easy to build. They just take a little time and build up into really nice looking models. I'm not sure how LaBelle stays in business because after building a few of their kits you know how to scratch build. I used one of their box car kits as a template to cut up matching bass wood and sheet for 15 cars. I'm sure the folks at LaBelle would frown on this practice. http://www.labellemodels.com/main.htm
When it comes to 1900 era locomotive models there are not to many mass produced types. In HO Bachmann makes a very nice 4-6-0 that can be back dated. The running gear is the main thing, the next might be to remove some of the more modern details and swap out the domes. They are also coming out with a 4-4-0 basied on a MA&PA loco that would fit the era just right. An Athearn / RoundHouse 2-8-0 or 2-6-0 might be a good fit. Then there is brass. Search model trains on Ebay for 4-4-0, 2-6-0, 4-6-0 and 2-8-0 to see whats currently out there. The prices on brass locomotives of these older type steam locomotives seem to be fairly reasonable. Plastic kits and and RTR can be found from Athearn / Roundhouse and a few others. Many of the RTR, Plastic Kits or Craftsman type models of these smaller cars are very light and will operate much better with some weight added. Also if you use Kadee type magnetic couplers properly weighted cars will couple and un- couple much better. The trade off for weight is that many of the smaller steam locomotive models struggle with even a few cars on a grade. I don't have any HO brass but my HOn3 brass models did quite well hauling their trains up fairly steep grades. My HO railroad is located in flat lands and has no grade but I have tested my two Bachmann Spectrum 4-6-0's on a 2% grade and they could barely pull themselves up let alone much of a train. On the flat they do very well. In your planning consider that grades may present operational challenges. Even though by choosing to model this era you have to be a do it your selfer a little more than someone interested in later steam or diesels has to be there are many advantages. Shorter cars and smaller locomotives will operate very well on typically tight model railroad curves and #4 or #5 turnouts, and look better on them too. The rolling stock and structures tend to be much more easy to scratch build than modern era models. Buildings generally can have a smaller foot print, and even though the modern eras are more popular there is a huge number of structure kits that are perfect for a turn of the century layout.
Have fun, Bruce
Most railroads were started by then and a good history of an individual railroad will include a chapter or two with pictures of that time frame.
Enjoy
Paul
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
You might go to Groups at Yahoo.com, and join the EarlyRail group. It's focus is from the first days of rail, to the first world war.
Also, go to the New England, Berkshire and Western website at Rennselaer Polytech. RPI charges for access to the site, but the monthly cost is minimal (like $7 or so). You join, find the info you want, print the pages, and cancel your membership.
I am assuming you are interested in HO.
Contrary to popular belief, MDC is still in business, they still make their old-time freight and passenger cars and still produce their 2-6-0 and 4-4-0 locos.
Bachmann makes an 1880's era 4-4-0; They also make a 4-6-0 and have a 'modern' 4-4-0 that is supposed to hit the streets within a week.
Westerfield makes resin freight cars.
LaBelle Woodworking makes wooden car kits.
Art Griffin makes decals, Clover House makes dry-transfers.
HTH
Here are two more:
Craig Bisgeier's Housatonic Railroad
Harold Minkwitz's Pacific Coast Air Line
Harold Minkwitz: http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/
Craig Bisgeier: http://www.housatonicrr.com/
Andre
Model Railroader Magazine did an article called "Why I Model 1905" some time back. It was pretty good as I remember. Anyone remember what issue that was in?
Also, I have some links on my other computer that might help. I'll post them when I get to it tomorrow.
pcarrell wrote: Model Railroader Magazine did an article called "Why I Moel 1905" some time back. It was pretty good as I remember. Anyone remember what issue that was in?Also, I have some links on my other computer that might help. I'll post them when I get to it tomorrow.
Model Railroader Magazine did an article called "Why I Moel 1905" some time back. It was pretty good as I remember. Anyone remember what issue that was in?
Actually, it was "Why I Model 1906" and it was in the January, 2002 issue of MR. http://www.trains.com/mrr/objects/pdf/mr_lp_1-05_1906_01.pdf
andrechapelon wrote: pcarrell wrote: Model Railroader Magazine did an article called "Why I Moel 1905" some time back. It was pretty good as I remember. Anyone remember what issue that was in?Also, I have some links on my other computer that might help. I'll post them when I get to it tomorrow.Actually, it was "Why I Model 1906" and it was in the January, 2002 issue of MR. http://www.trains.com/mrr/objects/pdf/mr_lp_1-05_1906_01.pdfAndre
Ooops! Well I was close!
Thanks for the link.
Isn't it terrible when you start having senior moments in mid-life?
i don't have anything to add to the probably already overwhelming info above other than to say welcome to the forum , and welcome to the pre-1915 niche market that a bunch of us here inhabit . it's sometimes frustrating to look through an entire issue of MR and not see a single article or advert that has anything to to with what you're modelling , but the joy when finding something new makes up for it
have fun , and come back often to ask more questions and keep us updated on your progress
Check out also your local historical society for infromation on your time period, mine has a nice ho scale of Roseville yard.
Ed
You may be in luck!
You live close enough to Lancaster, where you will find a railroad museum, and a real operating steam museum. Also check out Steamtown In Scranton, and Honesdale (east of Scranton towards Joisey). Honesdale is where the first commercial RR was supposed to have started from. B&O gave strong competion.
Steamtown changed their website so I don't see it now, but I believe they have a rather extensive Library, available for review upon request. You may find what your looking for at the libraries at any of these places.
here are links: Lancaster :RR Museum of PA - Education Gateway
Scranton: About.com: http://www.nps.gov/stea/
hope this will help!
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
Mad Delver,
THANKS for asking the question! I've always been interested in this time frame. Because of your question, I've gleaned a bunch of info.
O' course I'm more interested in Central Texas, so my industries would be different, and the styles would be about 10 yrs behind the East Coast. Still, RR equipment would be pretty much the same across the country.
So again, Thanks!
John T. in the 'cow pasture'
Thanks for all the fantastic information! Is there forum dedicated to OT trains?
jawnt wrote:Mad Delver, THANKS for asking the question! I've always been interested in this time frame. Because of your question, I've gleaned a bunch of info.O' course I'm more interested in Central Texas, so my industries would be different, and the styles would be about 10 yrs behind the East Coast. Still, RR equipment would be pretty much the same across the country. So again, Thanks!John T. in the 'cow pasture'
John,
WOW! Someone else who is interested in older steam and in Texas too.When we moved I had to tear down my small narrow gauge layout and it was a few years before I got around to fixing up the shed out back and starting my layout. (Still have a long way to go) During that time I started looking in to old railroads in Texas for fun and decided to model the Texas Midland that ran from Ennis to Paris. Since it was a standard gauge line I switched to HO, boxed up the narrow gauge stuff and headed out of the mountains onto the flatlands. If you can find old issues of The Journal of Texas Shortlines and Transportation grab them up. I saw some at Kings in Austin but that was a few years back. I also saw complete sets of 12 issues or is it 11 (unfortunatly thats all that was ever published) at Discount Train in Addison (North Dallas). Old central Texas Railroads are featured in almost every issue as that region was the publishers stomping grounds. Most of the railroads that were covered included rosters. drawings, pictures, and often track diagrams and some included a year by year history. If you already have a particular railroad in mind let me know as I may have some info on it. I have also posted a few Texas Shortline Railroad rosters on steamlocorosters at yahoo groups. Cyril Durrenberger who is a member of the Earlyrail group is very likely to be the most knowledgeable person on earth in regards to early Texas Steam. If you need some info on old Texas railroads he can give you the answer or point out a source. He also has some very nice decals available for quite a few old Texas freight cars. Bruce
Yes- Earlyrail at yahoo groups.
Bruce
BWFTEX,
I've always had an interest in early Texas steam. When I was a kid, the SP ran about a half mile from the house (living in the country, that's no distance at all). All the locals referred to it as the SAP. took a while to find out that stood for 'San Antonio and Aransas Pass'. Due to the name, the area and the time frame, I've been hooked for years. I'm working on a subsidiary (fictional) of the SAAP, called 'Yegua Creek and Southwestern'. Will see if I can pull it together.
John T.
OK, here's one or two other links that might help.
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/index.html
http://www.urbaneagle.com/pers/bookmarks/bookmarks030711.html
http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/Page0002.Html
http://www.rreid.net/OldTrails/
http://dmoz.org/Recreation/Trains_and_Railroads/History/
http://www.railarchive.net/index.html
http://historical.maptech.com/index.cfm
Not everything on these sites is usable, but there's some stuff on each of these links that is helpful.
pcarrell wrote: OK, here's one or two other links that might help.http://www.steamfreightcars.com/index.htmlhttp://www.urbaneagle.com/pers/bookmarks/bookmarks030711.htmlhttp://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/Page0002.Htmlhttp://www.rreid.net/OldTrails/http://dmoz.org/Recreation/Trains_and_Railroads/History/http://www.railarchive.net/index.htmlhttp://historical.maptech.com/index.cfmNot everything on these sites is usable, but there's some stuff on each of these links that is helpful.
I just took a few moments to check out these links & they are fantastic! If you can't get info on old RR's etc on these links you never will! Thanks a bunch
lvanhen wrote:I just took a few moments to check out these links & they are fantastic! If you can't get info on old RR's etc on these links you never will! Thanks a bunch
No problem!
I'm a bit late to the table here, but, to the forums!
Once again, our band of brothers has come charging in with a gold mine of useful information! You can expect something similar with any other question you may have.
Surprisingly, no one mentioned the most obvious resource - the historical societies of the specific railroads that served your specific geographic area of interest (town or county, or even state or region.) A Google search of specific road names should find them.
Can't offer more than that, I'm afraid. I model a period seven decades later, at a place that's about as far as you can get from the Eastern US without having to learn Chinese. (You will have to learn how to read Chinese pictographs, though.)
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Here's a few more links that might prove useful, at least for the photos of turn of the century railroading:
http://www.loc.gov/index.html
http://photoswest.org/
http://railroads.uconn.edu/links.htm
http://library.syr.edu/digital/images/e/ErieRailroad/
http://www.historyillinois.org/
http://images.library.uiuc.edu:8081/cdm4/results.php?CISOOP1=any&CISOBOX1=1900&CISOFIELD1=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOROOT=all
http://www2.libraryweb.org/index.asp?orgid=91&storyTypeID=&sid=&
http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/WebZ/initialize?sessionid=0&next=html/nfdblist.html&bad=html/nfdblist.html&javascript=true&topic=VirtualCatalog
http://images.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/i/image/image-idx
http://imagebase.lib.vt.edu/browse.php
http://www.virtuallymissouri.org/vmdigcoll.aspx
http://66.213.36.5/image.asp
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/freight-cars.php
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/acfx/acf-h.html
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/1914to1940RRing/
http://www.greatdecals.com/Griffin.htm
http://thepde.info/
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/home.htm
http://www.railsandtrails.com/default.htm
http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/
http://www.castlegraphics.com/
http://web.ulib.csuohio.edu/cut/
I spend a LOT of time searching for old railroading photos online, and also pre-WWI photographs of everyday America. Over the past three years or so I've amassed a collection of well over 50,000 images, all from online sources. It might take a while, and you won't find much "hard" data (texty material), but the 'net IS a good place to start looking at the "olden days".
And don't forget to search through Ebay regularly. I've got 20 or so rearch routines that I run weekly on Ebay, and have probably picked up close to 10,000 of the above images from postcard and photo auctions on that site. It's a researcher's friend!
Ray Breyer
Modeling the NKP's Peoria Division, circa 1943