Well if you want continous running, sadly your options are limited. Luckily a 4x8 is a great starter point for people who are of limited skill. Take a look at woodland scenics layout kits. They are quite nice. There's also an excellent city layout that was in dream plan build ?vol 1? dvd from Kalmbach. It fit on a 4x8, or an 5x8 with the optional pier.
Oddly enough newbs find point to point boring. They just want to see their train run. On the other hand more experienced modelers want a more active control in their trains, and only sometimes want a continous run.
The trick to a good 4x8 is being able to hide that fact that your train is going in circles. This means lots of buildings/tunnels, and/or scenic dividers.
If you review most of MRR's how to articles, they just about always create a 4x8 layout for beginners. While I feel they are a good start, they are a bit simplistic, and therefore get would get boring easily IMHO. (This is the hazard tradeoff of trying to design a layout for beginers) Luckily they put on a number of off-track lines in which branchs can be added to the table later. (Allowing for expansion).
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
HO scale is the most popular, with N scale in a strong second. With your space constraints you're going to be quite limited if you want continuous running in HO scale. You're fine for a switching layout in HO. By going with N scale your possibilities open up quite a bit. continuous running isn't a problem. You could even run some pretty substantial equipment.
This site may help to get your creative juices flowing;
http://home.earthlink.net/~mrsvc/id28.html
The whole site is good, but that article really hits on the 4x8 thing.
One suggestion would be to use the 4x8, but make the track on it non-continuous so that it forms a "U". One leg of the u would be a small carfloat operation, the other leg would be the industries served by the carfloat. New York had several of these operations whose only connections are via carfloat. Making it an urban environment would mean you could use buildings as a senic divider between the two halves of the layout. There is a picture of such an operation in John Armstrong's Track Planning for Realistic Operation.
-George
"And the sons of Pullman porters and the sons of engineers ride their father's magic carpet made of steel..."
soumodeler wrote:My question is, why does everyone dislike 4x8's so much?
This pretty much spells it out.
soumodeler wrote:My question is, why does everyone dislike 4x8's so much?...For a limited space, I am a big fan of the 4x8 instead of a point to point switching layout. Take what you got and use it to your advantage.
Unless your "limited space" is not enough room for a 4x8. My problem with a 4x8 is that they take up too much space!
Quite frankly, the fact that people seem to think that a 4x8 is a microscopically small layout, when it actually eats 80 square feet of a room, is the most obvious problem and THING TO LOATHE about the 4x8. It's a really inefficient use of room and wood, and while it is supposedly "great for a beginner" it's also a great way to teach bad habits and poor design practices. A shelf switcher is great for a beginner too, takes up less space, costs less, and lets the modeler, as you say, "take what you got and use it to your advantage" while getting a lot more bang for your buck in terms of effective use of space.
THE SOUTHERN SERVES THE SOUTH.
I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying.
There are lots of attractive and well sceniced 4x8's out there. There are lots of good plans out there to fit that space that have a lot to offer. That's not the issue.
And if a 4x8 is on wheels and can be moved around to share it's space for other purposes, like a den or something, then it's just fine if that's what you want.
What I am saying is that for a perminate, immovable (i.e. not portable), layout, it's not the most efficiant use of space given the square footage that it and the isles around it occupy. We don't have to be locked into this 4x8 only kind of thinking. Lets take a look outside of the box for a moment. Other options may offer more desirable space useage. There's a lot of things that can be done in that amount of space.
That's not to say the 4x8 is not a uesful option still. The 4x8 can do a lot of things and is a useful size of layout. But given the options available to a perminate layout of that size, I personally feel that some of those other options are more desirable.
And that's what it really boils down to, isn't it? It comes down to what you personally feel is the best route for you to take. I feel that something other then a 4x8 in the given space would be desirable. Another person may not feel that way, and that's OK.
Just like the old saying goes.....
It is your railroad after all!
Could you post a diagram of the whole room, showing doors and non-movable furniture? There may be other options people can see.
I model in HO, and my layout is a 5x12 table. It has to share space in the family room, so I didn't have the option of fastening the layout to the wall. Instead, I built a light framework and used foam for my base, and then put casters on the legs. Right now, I'm working on the nominal "front" of the layout, while the back is against the wall, but as I move around to the back in the scenery phase, I can turn the whole layout around. All wiring to the control panels is routed through a point at the center, so I can even move the panels from the front to the back of the layout.
If I had a small room where around-the-walls was an option, I would look very seriously at a lift-off bridge connecting the ends of a U-shaped layout. This allows for continuous running without requiring a big loop at each end, and makes it easier to build a layout without very tight curves.
And even though I'm in HO and very happy with it, there is a lot to be said for N-gauge when space is an issue.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Whether a 4x8 is the most efficient use of space depends on a number of issues. Where is the door(s) located? Does the room need to be used for other purposes? Can backdrops be mounted on the walls?
Many first layouts are built in a spare bedroom. A 4x8 is similar in size and shape to a bed so it works well in a typical 10x11 bedroom without blocking access to the closet which is a handy thing to have in a railroad room, especially if you add shelves. A spare bedroom also usually has one doorway so you don't have to be concerned with the traffic flow through the room. Such a room likely will have one or more windows which makes an around the walls design problematic.Either you block off the window or do without a backdrop in that area. Some modelers are apartment dwellers and there may well be lease restrictions which limit what can be put on the walls.
A switching layout on a shelf is another option but it's not going to be for everyone. Simply switching cars back and forth could get old just as quickly as a roundy-round. You don't get to run trains over the road and can forget about passenger operations unless your idea of fun is moving cars from the station to the coach yard and back. A 4x8 provides the opportunity to do both switching and running of trains. If you want to run trains and don't have a lot of room, a continuous run layout is almost a must and a 4x8 is the simplest way to get there. If you have the room to make it 5x8, that's even better because you can use broader curves.
A 4x8 is not the best small layout solution for everyone but it is a viable option and should not be dismissed without considering a wide range of factors. My first layout was a 4x8 and we had a lot of fun with it and it is probably the reason I am still in this hobby over 40 years later. For a first layout, it can be an excellent choice.
My
If you like mines or logs a Switchback type of layout with a TT at one end is a nice touch. You ues the vertical space to get the tun you want. 101 track plans has a few in their book. Can you go narrow gauge? Ho on "N" gauge track is a good trade off.
Another 180 deg idea is how long are you going to be in this size space? long term see above, short term Moduler so you can move it. I have a n old friend in Florida that had the same peoblem so he built 6 different modules and rotates them out for some change. The month of his Birthday the CFO (his wife) lets him set up the whole railrad and run it. You know that you can have a module on wheels and roll it into place to run then put it back when done.
I never built a 4x8 I got greedy and took the old ping pong table 5x9 and started there