I need some input here. I am looking to put together some passeneger trains and need an idea where to look. And Bang For The Buck is my angle. Of course, I want really good cars, but dont have a ton of money.... I know I sound like a broken record so I am tryign toi find a middle ground.
There are a bunch out there it in RTR and it seems to be the best deal. All I can find anymore in blue-boxes are off the wall roadnames and only in a few. I am not oppesed to going with a IHC set of passenger cars since they are so cheap, if they can be upgraded fairly easy, such as metal wheels and Kadee type couplers. Also, if you know of a good online source for passenger cars that have good prices,
Here is my list of way I consider most important.
1) Price.
2) Operational issues. Metal wheels,Kadde type couplers, handle 20" radius, etc
3) Outside detail
4) Inside interior.
Let the opinoins fly. I am sure opinions will vary,
Thank you guys.
Best Regards, Big John
Kiva Valley Railway- Freelanced road in central Arizona. Visit the link to see my MR forum thread on The Building of the Whitton Branch on the Kiva Valley Railway
The major limiting criterion you listed is that 20" radius. All is not lost however as there are some Rivarossi 60 footers in the Walthers catalog that are actually good representatives of C&NW heavywieghts. The big drawback w/ them is you have to buy a 4 car set at $140. That comes to about $35 per car which is about what any well done RTR car w/ interior will cost you. Con-Cor has a series of lightwieght 72' cars in a number of road names @ $17 each. Model Power has a series of Harriman cars listed in the Walthers catalog that look like they might be re-labled Roundhouse cars. The prototypes were about 60' and the Roundhouse nodels are shortened slightly from that so they'd run on your 20" curves and would still look fairly prototypical. I don't know if the cars are currently available from Roundhouse or not but maybe yor LHS might know.
There will probably be those who will tell you that 85' cars can be tweaked to run on 20" curves. Don't listen to them! Nothing short of attaching a hinge in the center of the car will make them look anything but rediculous and most conversions will require truck mounted cplrs which will preclude backing movements.
Jim,
Thanks for the input. That is just what I was hopeing for.
All though, it hit me that I need to make clear my radius issue. While I listed 20", I ment it as a absolute clearance. Meaning that my average curve is around 26" with some going up to 33". I listed 20" simply needing it to clear one small cruve. I have a large grain silo tucked away that might become a passenger station when the mood hits me( I would lift off the silo complex and replace it with passeneger station). To back into it, it would have to clear one tight curve on a industry siding. Then, once on the main line, nothing smaller than 24". Also, my club runs about 3 or 4 times a year with our modules. When we have our layout set up, our minimum is 5 FEET. Yeah, its cool. I kinda prefer to have the larger cars. Besides, the kid loves the big cars.
If you are not going prototypical, IHC are decent cars.
Add some weight right above the trucks inside the body, add some metal axles & you're off to the next train station for more passengers!
In the following photo, it shows where I placed automotive stick on weights inside the body of the car.
Gordon
Brought to you by the letters C.P.R. as well as D&H!
K1a - all the way
Maybe I am old fashion but,I would go with Athearns unless I had 30" curves simply because the Athearn passenger cars doesn't look all that bad on say a 22" curve.
As far as getting the most for your hobby dollar here is THE place to shop IMHO.
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/index.html
Be sure to scroll down the pages..You WILL find GOOD deals.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Canazar,
I think you should check out Rapido's new passenger cars. Buy them as your budget allows, (once a month or two) and you'll have your train complete before you know it. Look at the pictures on their web site. The underbody detail and interior detail is amazing. Best of all, they'll meet your radius requirements.
Don Z.
http://www.rapidotrains.com/scl02.html
OUR PASSENGER CAR FEATURES:
Research; it's not just for geeks.
While those are indeed beautiful cars I would not want to operate those on anything less then a 32"- 36" curve. Because being full length cars with fragile details I would want to keep the overhang to a absolute minimum.
Don Z wrote: Canazar, I think you should check out Rapido's new passenger cars. Buy them as your budget allows, (once a month or two) and you'll have your train complete before you know it. Look at the pictures on their web site. The underbody detail and interior detail is amazing. Best of all, they'll meet your radius requirements. Don Z. http://www.rapidotrains.com/scl02.html OUR PASSENGER CAR FEATURES: HO scale ready-to-run, injection-molded plastic models Fully decorated in many different paint schemes Detailed underbody with separate steam, air and electrical lines Flush-fitting windows with raised and painted window frames Factory-applied grab irons and uncoupling levers Fully detailed interior cast in appropriate colors Battery-powered LED lighting operated by magnetic wand (included) Separate, removable marker lamps and end gates McHenry Couplers and operating diaphragms with support bars 18" minimum radius (24" or greater recommended) Multiple car names/numbers available for each railroad and type of car
What railroad and what era are you looking to model? I don't know how true to prototype you are trying to stay, but the Rapido cars are Canadian prototypes, for instance.
canazar wrote:I am not oppesed to going with a IHC set of passenger cars since they are so cheap, if they can be upgraded fairly easy, such as metal wheels and Kadee type couplers.
Now the 20 inch radius is a different issue. My modifications to the cars assumed they would be running on 30” or better.
For the short curves as others have said, Athearn shorties, the new Rivarossi shorties (but they are $25 per car!), and the old MDC 50 footers will look better.
The unmodified Rivarossi, AHM, and IHC will navigate that tight of a curve, but the overhang on the ends and seeing the rail 3 scale feet from the center of the car are something to consider.
Dont look now but I chose the Walthers heavyweights for my train.
As for your 20" curve you might want to operate a doodle bug from that station to the next that is operationally reachable. (Or bus service if you prefer.)
But that is my thinking.
I did the Athearn thing years ago and eventually discarded it, IHC was something to see with it's cloud-weight floating off the rails at 18" and a overhang that was something to behold.
I too discarded the IHC because you would need metal wheels (Hobby shop probably would not make more than a penny on those cheep IHC wheels) weight, interiors and people along with couplers... whoa whoa whoa... how much is all of that per car?? RTR for me is a no-brainer, just have to wait for the right ones to come out.
I dont know about Spectrum. I had an oppertunity last year to purchase a 4 car set that is a complete train with PRR markings for 90 dollars. I walked away with doubts due to the weight of the things. Some other lucky person got them by now probably.
Finally Im thinking the Broadway Limited and Rapido are pretty much the top-end all of quality in passenger equiptment. Cost pretty much up there in the 40-60's or even beyond.
One car per month pending assemply, packing and shipping to the store that is how I did my fleet.
I toss in a vote for the walthers 60' heavyweights that come in sets. They are made to appear more life like on the sharp curves.
Don't get me wrong, Most of my passenger car fleet are Walthers.
The 2 IHC cars in my fleet, I don't have more than $15 ea invested in them. I have about 30 mins total in "upgrading" them, ie adding IHC's axles & the weight inside.
I'm going to do is paint the inside part of the windows black to represent tinted windows which will save me the expense of having to install an interior & paint.
If you are looking for inexpensive, go IHC unless you happen to find some Walthers cars on sale.
I did the MDC Harriman cars, and although they are relatively decent in most respects, mine are poor trackers. I have a baggage car (or maybe it is a combine...can'y recall) that will not stay on the rails, no matter what I do to it, or where I place it in the order of the consist. I took a deep breath, bought three NYC heavyweights on sale at internet hobbies.com (nearly half-price in May/June), and placed them behind my Hudson as soon as I had some clear trackage.
They sure are purty, and they run real goooooood. Mind you, I have 28" curves as a min on my main, with most in the 36" range or more.
I agree with the periodic purchase, although if you must pay for shipping, they get that much more expensive. Maybe ask the supplier to ship three or four when you have accumulated that many.
Thanks everyone for chipping in their info. I think I sorta shot myself in the foot and should have mentioned it right off the bat about the my radius. On the main line it averages 25-26", but i have on tight spot in a siding where they mighthave to go that would lead to a possible spot for a passeneger station.
But, I am stuck now with ideas. I have 2.. I kinda want to buy the whole thing so I am leaning toward the IHC sets. And no, I am really not to worried about prototypical issues. Its mostly for the kid and I to point and go "How Cool!" For some reason, my son has developed a thing for passenger cars. Ah Shucks! Plus, I would enjoy doing the wheels and tweaking.
And the other.... I think I might have to lean toward getting some nice ones and doing the collection thing. I looked at some over the weekend, and there are some really good looking cars. Walthers seems to have a good price/detail level to them. I do want to check out the Bachman Spectrum cars, but cant seem to find any yet.
I will keep you guys posted on what I do. Thanks again for takign time to help.
IHC CARS ARE DAWGS!
BEST 'BANG' for the BUCK, is the one PAINTED in the Road you want, or the ATHEARN BB kits.
Money spent on upgrades, wheels, KD's, etc,.will give better payback with Athearn than IHC.
Selector:
Add body mtd. couplers & weighted trucks. Old MDC & ATHEARN trucks were 'Talgo' type, and were often out of gauge. KD's and IHC's metal passenger trucks (best thing they make) should clear up everything.
.
canazar wrote:Thanks everyone for chipping in their info. I think I sorta shot myself in the foot and should have mentioned it right off the bat about the my radius. On the main line it averages 25-26", but i have on tight spot in a siding where they mighthave to go that would lead to a possible spot for a passeneger station. But, I am stuck now with ideas. I have 2.. I kinda want to buy the whole thing so I am leaning toward the IHC sets. And no, I am really not to worried about prototypical issues. Its mostly for the kid and I to point and go "How Cool!" For some reason, my son has developed a thing for passenger cars. Ah Shucks! Plus, I would enjoy doing the wheels and tweaking. And the other.... I think I might have to lean toward getting some nice ones and doing the collection thing. I looked at some over the weekend, and there are some really good looking cars. Walthers seems to have a good price/detail level to them. I do want to check out the Bachman Spectrum cars, but cant seem to find any yet. I will keep you guys posted on what I do. Thanks again for takign time to help.
DrummingTrainfan wrote: canazar wrote: Thanks everyone for chipping in their info. I think I sorta shot myself in the foot and should have mentioned it right off the bat about the my radius. On the main line it averages 25-26", but i have on tight spot in a siding where they mighthave to go that would lead to a possible spot for a passeneger station. But, I am stuck now with ideas. I have 2.. I kinda want to buy the whole thing so I am leaning toward the IHC sets. And no, I am really not to worried about prototypical issues. Its mostly for the kid and I to point and go "How Cool!" For some reason, my son has developed a thing for passenger cars. Ah Shucks! Plus, I would enjoy doing the wheels and tweaking. And the other.... I think I might have to lean toward getting some nice ones and doing the collection thing. I looked at some over the weekend, and there are some really good looking cars. Walthers seems to have a good price/detail level to them. I do want to check out the Bachman Spectrum cars, but cant seem to find any yet. I will keep you guys posted on what I do. Thanks again for takign time to help. That sounds alot by me...a passenger railroader in the midst of a fright railroader. As to the problem at hand, I'd stay AWAY from the Walther's heavyweights. My dad bought one observation and it can't even make it around our 24" curves, I'm not sure if 25-26" would do any better. You still haven't said what kind of train you want, but have you thought of maybe some sort of commuter or regional train? I have the ER models Talgo set (the "beginner" set and add-on cars were on sale at Walthers when I got mine in May, not sure if they still are). Those will even go on my 22" curves. If you look at Railpictures you'll see that those things run with almost anything on the front, but an Athearn F59 (Amtrak Northwest green paint) with a modified F40 (I have a thread on that process somewhere...) is the norm. A commuter train from the area you model could also work, from my experiences the Athearn Bombardier cars run on our 24" curves (they may run on the 22" too...I can't remember) but you'll have to make sure to check wheel gauge because it can get messed up in transportation. Walthers commuter cars are also great runners, although a little expensive.
canazar wrote: Thanks everyone for chipping in their info. I think I sorta shot myself in the foot and should have mentioned it right off the bat about the my radius. On the main line it averages 25-26", but i have on tight spot in a siding where they mighthave to go that would lead to a possible spot for a passeneger station. But, I am stuck now with ideas. I have 2.. I kinda want to buy the whole thing so I am leaning toward the IHC sets. And no, I am really not to worried about prototypical issues. Its mostly for the kid and I to point and go "How Cool!" For some reason, my son has developed a thing for passenger cars. Ah Shucks! Plus, I would enjoy doing the wheels and tweaking. And the other.... I think I might have to lean toward getting some nice ones and doing the collection thing. I looked at some over the weekend, and there are some really good looking cars. Walthers seems to have a good price/detail level to them. I do want to check out the Bachman Spectrum cars, but cant seem to find any yet. I will keep you guys posted on what I do. Thanks again for takign time to help.
I removed the trucks from my heavyweights and took out the electrical tabs for the lighting. That loosened up the trucks a little bit.
I can get the diner to squeak around a 24" but I would not run them on anything less than 30" myself.
Once I get the Baggage and RPO (If they make one) I'll be all set.
Spending dollars or making Cents?
Manufacturers making SCALE cars (80' - 85') are catering to the 24"R - 46"R curve, #8 - #10 turnout. modelers. They also have double the price and detail.
Lionel pioneered the the 'Basement Railroad on a Board' with 27"R O gage curves to fit on a std. 'Table Tennis' board (todays 15"R HO equivalent) - except 'todays' basement board is 4'X 8' which limits curves to 22" - and less.
A WHOLE INDUSTRY has developed for those building 4X8 layouts: 72' cars such as those offered by Athearn, MDC, ConCor, and others, are a reasonable compromise, and at reasonable prices - as are 18"R - 22"R compromises , and #6, #4, or turnouts/switches that scribe a circle.
WHICH KIND OF MODELER ARE YOU? Want to run trains that 'fit' your layout? or push the envelope? The current issue of MODEL RAILROADER (October '05) shows how an 80' car forms an semi -octagon on a 22"R curve.
It sorta' advertises Amateur Standing, doesn't it? YOUR CHOICE.
I grew up watching a O (O-27) Gauge Blue Comet Passenger train roll down the track and thought it's the best thing in the world. It still is... but not at 2000 dollars retail in shows today.
One day I went to a club to visit a railroad and saw the HO scale trains running about running way freights, heavy haul mountain trains with multuple helper sets fighting the mountain pass with a long train and switching that occured without touching the cars or locomotive. What a SHOW!
Made the trainsets look really limited. ::censored:: with the plastic wheels, crappy couplers and poor quality locomotives with no staying power or detail.
But as a matter of personal choice Gauge and Scale does not matter as long as your are running trains and having fun.
Well, last weekend I put my money where my mouth is (or was at the time). I purchased fifteen Walthers cars to complete trains I already had or to form new ones. These were being sold for AUD (Australian Dollars) 10 or AUD 15 (= $7.50 or $11.25) each! The normal RRP is up to AUD70, so this was a good deal. These were largely Amtrak models, Amfleet, Superliner, Viewliner and a few Gallery cars, giving an interesting range of types of train.
I think these run well on all but the worst track, and in general can take curves down to 18". While I agree with Don Gibson that this doesn't look good, it is nice to run your trains on a friend's layout with these curves. It can be handy if you run out of space in a yard to be able to use short turnouts knowing the cars will take them.
By the way, Don Gibson refers to the October 2005 MR as the current issue. I've checked the current issue for the sharp curve illustration he mentions and couldn't find it? Was it last year's isuue Don?
M636C
Do not overlook the Con-Cor 72’ cars. They come in a variety of roadnames. I have a set of Athearns as well as the Con-Cors. Both are great for sharp curves. But I think the Con-Cors are a bit better in appearance. The only upgrade, if you can call it that, is to install the Kadee 508 adapter kit. The cars stay on the track very well.
Jim
M636C wrote: ... By the way, Don Gibson refers to the October 2005 MR as the current issue. I've checked the current issue for the sharp curve illustration he mentions and couldn't find it? Was it last year's isuue Don? - M636C
... By the way, Don Gibson refers to the October 2005 MR as the current issue. I've checked the current issue for the sharp curve illustration he mentions and couldn't find it? Was it last year's isuue Don? - M636C
MY APOLOGIES: I had a 'Senior Moment'. (Seems like they're getting oftener).
It WAS the current issue of MODEL RAILROADER, but it's the November (06) issue, P.55 showing an 80' car on a 22" radius. Joe Fugate's post of recommended radii vs. car length was (as usual) right on.
85' cars on a 22"R curve are a mismatch for all but "if it stays on the track" types. Not to be crude, but sort of like like finding a woman with 3 breasts:
We may live in an imaginary world, but imagination only goes SO far.
I got the first of four today, a coach. I am getting two coaches and two sleepers. These are modelled after cars built in 1954-55. They are REALLY nice. $60 Canadian each.
Barry
Regina, Sk. Canada
Don Gibson wrote: M636C wrote: ... By the way, Don Gibson refers to the October 2005 MR as the current issue. I've checked the current issue for the sharp curve illustration he mentions and couldn't find it? Was it last year's issue Don? - M636C MY APOLOGIES: I had a 'Senior Moment'. (Seems like they're getting oftener). It WAS the current issue of MODEL RAILROADER, but it's the November (06) issue, P.55 showing an 80' car on a 22" radius. Joe Fugate's post of recommended radii vs. car length was (as usual) right on. 85' cars on a 22"R curve are a mismatch for all but "if it stays on the track" types. Not to be crude, but sort of like like finding a woman with 3 breasts: We live in an imaginary world, but imagination only goes SO far.
M636C wrote: ... By the way, Don Gibson refers to the October 2005 MR as the current issue. I've checked the current issue for the sharp curve illustration he mentions and couldn't find it? Was it last year's issue Don? - M636C
... By the way, Don Gibson refers to the October 2005 MR as the current issue. I've checked the current issue for the sharp curve illustration he mentions and couldn't find it? Was it last year's issue Don? - M636C
We live in an imaginary world, but imagination only goes SO far.
Don, thanks for that! The November 2006 issue hasn't appeared on this side of the world yet.
By the way, not all of the Walthers cars will use sharp radii. The Viewliners, which are about the same dimensions as the Amfleet cars have outside frame trucks with body mounted brackets for traction rods that prevent the trucks angling that far.
The Amfleet and Horizon cars have inside frame trucks without any obstructions and these can be run on very sharp curves. The Bachmann Amfleet cars also have this capability.
I travelled on the "San Dieagans" in 1977 when the F40PH and the Amfleets were new, so I have a "soft spot" for these cars and locomotives. They were an improvement over the "Heritage" cars at the time.
Big John, I have the same radius problem at a Curved turnout I went with the Rivarossi sets from TrainWorld. They are $49.95 for 4 I think. They are heavweights and with a litlle Andy S. type work make a very nice car. The best part is that Andy S. did an article on them in MRM as to how to make them work and also his book on Passenger operations.
I have 16 of these in Lacajawana and B&O. I also have a set of Pulman roundhouse cars found them for $5.00 each as a kit and TO MANY Roundhouse overtons that I got in kit form foe $2.50 each at a train show. That is aout as cheap as it gets!!
My Consist is really a limited in the old style of long distance luxury trains, I chose the Pullman so I can run it with different locomotives of different roads.
But for a commuter train I see a few coaches, baggage and a tavern car sufficent.
I built my Atherans out of blue boxes and had an oppertunity to install interiors but never did get around to it. Im thinking those Interiors and people with some careful painting and window shade/rails treatment might actually do them well.