Any expert MRR like to fix problem engines? Darth Santa Fe?

[cudaken]

 As some of you know I been after a Santa Fe War Bonnet C44 W9 for a while. Well I won one on E-stuipd. Was listed as a MRC that I now know should have been a Athearn.

 Not sure what the heck it is at this point. Body looks good, has ditch lights but not a Athearn. Seems it was something that was kitbassed  (sorry about the spelling) and many driffrent parts where use. Trucks are Athearn FP-45's, motor is some kind of Proto (for get the name I was told when I first posted about the engine). No fly wheels, one drive shaft is Athearn, other is rubber tubbing.

 When I bought it it was listed as "runs but need's cleaning", it was a sold by a MRR club. I have cleaned, replaced the trucks with fresh FP-45's truck and it run's! But it sure makes a racket, makes a Pan Cake motor LL seem quite!\

 Seller, that is sending me my money back, so they are good guys. But I hate to use it as a dummy sitting on a spur.

 Does anyone want to play with it? I will pay shipping both ways plus cost of parts with in reason.

 Darth Santa Fe, I know you have great skills and a weak spot for the War Bonnet's like my self. Want to play with the mess? \

 Few PIC on the racket maker.

  

  

    

 

 

 

           Cuda Ken

 

[cudaken]

[river_eagle]

If you want to run it out to the Train Haus in Warrenton MO, I would be happy to see if I can get it going for you.
b0b
[e-mail]
[phone]

[Virginian]

Is that motor soldered to the frame?  If so, resonance is probably a big contributor to your noise.  I would replace the motor with a longer one and isolate it from the frame with silicone glue, and then set up equal balanced drivelines.  You do not absolutely have to have flywheels but a double flywheel equipped motor may be a better fit.  Anytime you have anything unequal rotationally balanced wise in the driveline it is going to vibrate, and that equals noise.  Because of costs, our motors will hardly ever be perfectly balanced, so isolate them from the frame/body with some type of elastomer.  Rubber tubing 'U' joints actually work pretty well, IF there is not much of an angle and it is goog quality thin walled tubing with the hole centered in it.  NWSL motors, joints, and shafts are pretty good in my experience.

Good luck.

[Soo Line fan]

Ken,

 

That looks to me like something a little kid put together. I may be wrong but this appears to be an old Railpower frame and Atherarn trucks with a Mashima motor. The Mashima motor is one of the best motors to re-power with. Why it has no flywheels only the “builder”, and I use that term loosely, knows for sure. It also appears the shafts have some type of brass tubing used to increase the diameter of the shafts. This was probably done due to the trucks, which are 2.4mm diameter and the Mashima motor, which has a 2.0mm diameter. The long tubing on the one shaft is not good. I have seen tubing work well when used in applications where the shafts are close together and do not pivot, such as steam engines. In your case you need to use flywheels and drive shafts. What you need to fix this mess is to use the A-Line flywheels and drive shafts. The flywheels will fit your 2.0mm shaft. The drive shafts will couple your 2.4mm trucks to the flywheels.

 

Here is a link: http://www.ppw-aline.com/re-power.htm The picture at the top of the page is what your drive train should look like when done.

 

Jim

[Railphotog]

This engine is a "beater" - I'd suggest your efforts and money are better spent on scrapping it.   You can spend all kinds of money to get it running right, and you still would have an orphan. 

Bob Boudreau

[METRO]

First off, that's a C41-8W not a C44-9W. The brakewheel on Dash-9s are located in the center of the radiator not the back, they're longer too.

If you want a Dash-9 in the Warbonnet here's what I'd do: Buy an Athearn Dash-9, repaint it if needed. Make sure you buy one with high-numberboards (sometimes called eyebrow boards) as are found on all Santa Fe GE widecabs. I've seen them being sold used for around $40 at local shows and such.

Now if you want to keep the one you have, well that's going to take a LOT of work. Pretty much the whole thing is going to have to be rebuilt from the ground up, the shell will need to be redetailed and repainted. My bet is that this was a custom build by a modeler before the Dash-8 was avalible in plastic. It doesn't have the right cab and the motor is not isolated. Repowering with an A-Line kit is a good idea but you're probably still better off just buying something else mate.

Cheers!
~METRO

[Tilden]

Have to agree.  You like the look of Warbonnets and someone else did too, so they decided to build a unit, perhaps not doing the best job of it.  You have a shell and a frame and have to decide if they are worth building an engine around.   From what I've read, you've already replaced the trucks and now are told to replace the drivetrain.  Basically build an engine.

Sometimes saving money isn't worth it.

[cjcrescent]

I believe that the problem with this loco is fairly simple to fix. From studying the pictures, I believe the problem is the tubing "whipping" as it turns. In other words, the middle of the tubing deforms due to centrifugal force. A simple experiment to see if it is the tubing doing this and slapping against the wiring is to simply cut the tubing into two shorter pieces and use some kind of "shaft" to connect between the cut ends. The ends only need to stick out between 1/4 to 1/2 inch from the motor and the gear tower. Insert a solid piece of brass, a piece of code 100 rail,  even a styrene rod will work, between the cut ends. If this doesn't eliminate or greatly reduce the noise, I'll be surprised.
 Mashimas are extremely quiet and replacing Athearn parts between the motor and gear tower with tubing and solid shafts has made many an Athearn extremely quiet.

[emdgp92]

Are you sure this engine isn't a "parts bin special?" It looks like something that was thrown together simply to use up spare parts. I've seen quite a few of those (locally) recently. I'd like to smack whoever is putting cabs from F units onto F45/FP45 shells...and trying to pass them off as E units.

[Darth Santa Fe]

motor is some kind of Proto (for get the name I was told when I first posted about the engine).

 When I bought it it was listed as "runs but need's cleaning", it was a sold by a MRR club. I have cleaned, replaced the trucks with fresh FP-45's truck and it run's! But it sure makes a racket, makes a Pan Cake motor LL seem quite!\

Does anyone want to play with it? I will pay shipping both ways plus cost of parts with in reason.

 Darth Santa Fe, I know you have great skills and a weak spot for the War Bonnet's like my self. Want to play with the mess?

I think the motor is an early Mashima. It looks similar to the one in my GSB SD40, but I could be wrong.

A lot of the noise may be coming from the worms, if you used old ones. My uncle loaned me his Athearn FP45, which he put a Sagami motor in, and it was very noisy when I got it. I replaced the front worm with a good one, and now it's nice and quiet.

I don't think I'd be able to afford another engine right now, since work's been a little slow lately. I'm sure someone else might still want it though, so maybe you could sell it on eBay as an "HO DASH 8 for parts," and list a few certain things about it, like the new trucks. I'm sure it would make some money for you, possibly to put toward a new DASH 9.

[GearDrivenSteam]

Orphan??? Dang Bob, I figured you'd put it a lot more bluntly than that. All I can say is........dam, what a piece. Sorry, Ken.   .....I hope you left them crummy feedback, by the way. Ken, I have a suggestion. There are LOTS of experienced modelers here. ASK before you buy. Information is free. Finding out the hard way is not.

[Don Gibson]

KEN:

You like to go 'round in circles? Building an Orphanage? Got money to burn?

Why this affinity for buying 'junk' ?

[CMSTPP]

         Okay here's the thing.... Someone made a big boo boo!! If that locomotive is supposed to be a C44-9W, I'm afraid your in trouble. The trucks under that locomotive are suppose to be HI-AD trucks ( standing for "High adhesion" trucks) The trucks under your locomotive are early style EMD trucks. Something that you will see under an SD40-2. If I were you I would go out and purchase a set of Dash 9 trucks from Kato. Plus, the frame your locomotive is sitting on is also an Athearn frame along with your trucks. The reason your hearing all the noise is probably whats going on inside those old Athearn trucks. The gears in those things might be older than you. The motor would also need to be changed. That thing looks like it went through an explosion. That might also be the source of some of your noise. I have a friend that has a better motor and we could replace that with it.

What I'm guessing is that someone took the original shell off the frame and replaced it with some other shell. Because the Shell you have on now is definately not Athearn. Usually Athearn has a bit higher detail than that, even though they're not the best company in the world.

I am sorry to break the news to you but what you have is probably not a dash 9. The shell on that frame looks to be a Dash 8. The predessor to the Dash 9.

 

James

E-mail me if you want send that locomotive my way.  I can help it a little.

[cudaken]

 Darth, you got it wrong, I don't want you to buy it. If you have the time and with skills you have I wondering if you might want to try to fix it for me.

 I will answer the questions the best I can remember. (I miss the old site)

 Motor is glued in, looks like silcone or some other goo.

 Worm gears where repleced with the trucks.

 I all so thought the racket was from the rubber shaft and it is 2 pices. Pulled it and still a racket.

 As far as the Athearn, well I would like one but not happy with the power need. I wish PK made one.

 So it not a Dash 9, not a big deal to me at this point! I know nothing and half of my F-7's may be F-3's. That is the great thing about being new, I know nothing. All I know is a Dash 9 has a door in the nose and a big over hanging radatior in the rear.

 Body has no mounting points either, just sit's on the chassie, couple box when screw down is all the holds it.

 I will try posting some movies of it in the next posting. Maybe some will no where the sounds come from.

                           Cuda Ken

[cudaken]

 Bob, or is it bOb. I work long hours so I would not be able to call till around 10:00 PM. Would that be OK?

                              Cuda Ken

[cudaken]

Lets see if I can post a video?

 http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/cudaken/?action=view&current=IM000039.flv

 This video is with both shafts.

http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/cudaken/?action=view&current=IM000040.flv

 That one is rear shaft only that seems to be slipping now.

http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/cudaken/?action=view&current=IM000041.flv

 Last one is the motor running with no shafts. Some of the hum is from the stereo. I have a nasty Audiophile system and the two Mono Blocked Amps at 600 watts a side have a fan to cool the heat sinks. I turned the volume down but need not shut down the stereo.

                    Cuda Ken 

[cudaken]

 For the heck of it a link to the clubs track that sold me the engine. They are fair with them refunding me the money. Plus a darn good looking track!

                     Cuda Ken

[cudaken]

Hum, here is the link.

 

          http://www.ncmrs.org./index.html

               Sorry about that cheif.

[Darth Santa Fe]

 Darth, you got it wrong, I don't want you to buy it. If you have the time and with skills you have I wondering if you might want to try to fix it for me.

I guess I misunderstood what you said.

In that case, I guess I could give fixing it a try. If you e-mail me, I'll tell you where to ship it to. My e-mail will be in the "interests" line in my profile temporarily, so you'll know what my e-mail is (I'll be taking it back out after we've worked everything out). (click my screen name to see my profile)

[CMSTPP]

Okay.. to me it looks as if the motor is glued down with something called JB weld. That stuff is an unbelieveable glue. It is one of the hardest glues I have ever delt with. Good luck pulling that motor off.

James

[river_eagle]

A fellow creature of the night
ken, i can also be reached at
314.606.6046
in the shop 2-8 pm tues thru sat
and 11-6 on sun
b0b

[cudaken]

 Darth, E-mail is sent. I have some spare motors, flywheels, drive shafts and extra trucks I can send. They are all old Athearn but work.

 Not J-bee weld, the gooe is still soft to the touch but cured.

 Being still green to this hobby I have never seen a Athearn chassis with out the 4 holes in the bottom of the chassis. But I will say most of it looks like my other Athearns.

 Don Gibson, reason I buying used and some "junk" is other wise's I would have nothing at this point. Company I worked for 25 years down sized and let go most of the senior people. My Golden Parachute was Zink at best. Went from $75,000.00 base + to now if I am lucky $30,000.00.

 If I got into this hobby say 3 years ago, I would have hired a Pro to custom bulid a layout for me and added a room to the house, not use my garage. Plus more than likely running brass by now. But what was is over and I have to deal with the lack of budget I have. I would love to walk in to K-10 Trains and just point at a 4-6-6-4 Broadway and tell Ken I take 2. 

 At this point I can spend around $10.00 to $20.00 a week, sometimes nothing as well. So I buy what I can aford and hope I made the right purchase. I will all so add you have read about the problems engines and cars, not the great buys I have found. Got a NIB details not added PK E-6 for $25.00 with shipping, or 8 Athearn rolling stock, Athearn FP-45 and 2 dummy GP-30 Athearns for $15.00 plus shipping.

 Making due with what I can afford, and getting better at this hobby Cuda Ken  

[rrinker]

 All I can offer is this advice: Do NOT snap-bid on ebay just because the price is within your range. Do a little research first. If the bidding is too low to be believed - it probably is for a reason. That's not to say you can't get really good stuff in the $20 range, it just takes patience. I managed to pick up a Proto2000 S1 for $20, brand new in the box, from a reputable dealer no less - MB Klein. I must have watched a dozen others of this road number (they made two, I already had one) go up past $0, which was still a deal compared to MSRP, but at over $40 I didn't need it THAT bad. Finally this one came along and I grabbed it.
 Outside of my PCM Reading T-1 steam loco with sound, I haven't paid more than $50 for any loco I have, and they are all Stewart, P2K, and Atlas. Most have been $40 or less. Careful bidding on Ebay, and careful shopping at trains shows can get you top quality at Tyco prices.

                                                    --Randy