Just getting into Narrow Gauge Any tips??

[plugsy]

Im just getting into HOn3, I have found N just a little too small for my 2 kids to enjoy with me at this stage, and have found HOn3 to meet all required criteria and I love the modelling potential with this gauge. If you have any tips or great web sites please pass on.

Thanks
Mike.

[mlehman]

Hi Mike,
The best help you can find on all aspects of HOn3 is at the Yahoo Groups HOn3 list. You can join at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HOn3/

One site that is getting some attention these days is the Blackstone Model site:
http://www.blackstonemodels.com/
They've just posted a picture of one of the sample K-27s that they hope to be shipping around the end of the year. Blackstone will also be releasing RTR D&RGW box and stock cars around that time.

MMI/PSC also is expected to release K-27s in the near future. I don't think that the manufacturer has a webpage on these, but an Australian shop has these listings, all obviously delayed from the listed expected date:
http://www.railcar.com.au/mountain%20model%20imports%20ho.htm

As you've probably heard, Micro-Trains has released several different RTR versions of its C&S reefer:
http://www.micro-trains.com/
They cancelled attending the Narrow Gauge convention and don't have much up on the webpage right now, but their offerings have been well-recieved and several more items based on the C&S steel underframe are expected soon.

Of course, up to this point, HOn3 has been mostly about building kits and buying brass. There is an outstanding selection of kits available and you can usually find out-of-production items on Ebay if you're patient.  I hope this is helpful.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL

[GearDrivenSteam]

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[plugsy]

Thanks for your direction Mike.

 

Thanks Mike.

[Railphotog]

Curious as to your choice of HOn3 versus N scale - there isn't really a whole lot of size difference between these two, both are small and running requires finicky trackwork and running gear.  

In fact trains running on slightly wider track - HOn30 gauge - do run on N scale track.   Might be an idea to check out On30, which is much larger and more user friendly and runs on HO scaled track.

Just a suggestion!

Bob Boudreau

[marknewton]

Bob, HOn30/HOe runs on the same 9mm gauge track as used in N scale. HOn3 runs on 10.5mm gauge track.

I've done a fair bit of HOe modelling over the years, using proprietary European models from DJH, Weinert, Roco, Bemo, Halling and the like. I've never found the track or running gear finicky.

Cheers,

Mark.

[Railphotog]

Bob, HOn30/HOe runs on the same 9mm gauge track as used in N scale. HOn3 runs on 10.5mm gauge track. I've done a fair bit of HOe modelling over the years, using proprietary European models from DJH, Weinert, Roco, Bemo, Halling and the like. I've never found the track or running gear finicky. Cheers, Mark.

The original poster said he was looking for something for his kids.  To me there isn't much difference between N scale, HOn3 and HOn30, it's all small rolling stock running on very small track.     You as an adult would probably not have a problem, but kids could run/operate/rerail On30 stuff a whole lot easier.  And it's a lot cheaper too!

There isn't a whole lot of difference between HO30 and HOn3 - 1.5mm.

Bob Boudreau

[IRONROOSTER]

I agree with Bob, On30 is better than HOn3 for young kids.  Even better would be a Lionel set with smoke, sound, and some action cars.
Enjoy
Paul

[GearDrivenSteam]

Depending on how young they are, a Thomas the Train set might not be a bad idea.

[Renegade1c]

a magnifying glass... with the funny stuff out of the way. HOn3 tends to be alot of scratchbuilding and kitbashing. there are kits out there but are not cheap. I don't know how well this would work for kids. Regular HO might be better for them but I do like alot of the Aspects that Narrow Guage allows.

[GearDrivenSteam]

Going with Hon3, clearly he did not have the children in mind. LOL

[fwright]

If you have any tips or great web sites please pass on.

Thanks
Mike.

Mike Lehman gave you a pretty good rundown on the RTR side of HOn3.  I started in HOn3 a little over a year ago.  I'm on  a limited budget, putting the detailed brass out of reach.  Also, at the time, the Blackstone and MMI wren't very close to production, and the K-27 is a bigger and more modern locomotive than I wanted anyway.

In my locomotive budget (note Roundhouse, Ken Kidder, FED are out of production but still available):

Grandt Line box cab and 25T diesels (kits) ($50?):  4 wheel diesels "critters".  Some have the bodies recast in brass for extra weight and pulling power.  The drive needs to be worked carefully to get all 4 wheels to provide tractive effort.

Roundhouse Shay (RTR and kit - RTR about $125-$150, kit about $70, easily found on eBay).  Often does not run well out of the box.  Needs tinkering, NWSL parts help, can be made to run very well.  Nicely detailed, and easy to modify/backdate.  Some consider the frame too large for HOn3.  I have standard gauge version.

Roundhouse 2-8-0 (both inside and outside frame versions made, almost all production was kit, available eBay and some dealers for $80 or less).  A good kit to learn how to build kit locomotives.  I have one of these.  Matches a Baldwin C-25 reasonably in many dimensions.

Keystone Shay (non-motorized kit)  Needs NWSL motorizing kit, which is currently out of production but available.  Makes into jewel of loco but kit is at a craftsman level.  I have one of these also, may do a second.

Ken Kidder imported brass models of Porter 0-4-0T, 0-4-0, 2-6-0 in the '60s in both kit and RTR.  Very sparse detail.  Available on eBay from $50 to $125, depending on model and condition.  I have the 0-4-0T.

FED imported both 4-4-0 and 2-6-0 as low-end brass in late '60s and '70s.  Generally need rebuild to run well.  Sparse details.  Available on eBay for less than $150.

As far as track goes, Micro-Engineering sells flex track with code 40, 55, or 70 rail, and #6 turnouts.  Shinohara sells flex track and turnouts in all configurations with code 70 rail.  Numerous suppliers of turnout kits or custom turnouts and items for hand laying track.

Numerous suppliers of cars and structures, in both wood and plastic, even a few cast metal.  One of my favorite makers of wood craftsman car kits is Labelle, but there are other good ones, too.  Suitable JV Models, Campbell, and Woodland Scenics structure kits are among my preferences.  These tend to fit my small 1900-era Oregon layout better than some others.  Again, there are many manufacturers in HOn3, and a good percentage are not in the Walters catalog or hobby shops, but are mail order and Internet sales.

my thoughts, your choices

Fred W

[Jetrock]

Im just getting into HOn3, I have found N just a little too small for my 2 kids to enjoy with me at this stage, and have found HOn3 to meet all required criteria and I love the modelling potential with this gauge. If you have any tips or great web sites please pass on.

Thanks
Mike.

 

You might find less expensive and delicate things for your children to handle, like Swarovski crystal goblets or Hank Aaron rookie cards, than HOn3 locomotives. On30 is large, relatively inexpensive, cute, and offers all of the modeling potential of HO narrow gauge, and your kids will love it. Stick to the shorter equipment like the four-wheel critter diesel and the 0-4-0 Porter and you can run on really sharp curves, keeping the size of the layout down.  

[vsmith]

Having done narrow gauge for a while I would suggest investigating On30, There are a few words that one should always associate with HOn3

 

Expensive

Finicky

Fragile

Cantankerous

 

Also throw in the phrases "Must have PERFECT trackwork" and "Will derail at any moment" to it...

 

Its not a scale I would normally associate with kids, due to the expense and the cantankerous nature of the models used on it.

 

On30 OTOH uses HO gauge track, HO drivetrains, and HO reliabilty, is easily handled by kids and has a very impressive presents on a layout. Also theirs an awefull lot of new stuff being added every year.

[on30francisco]

I have tried narrow gauge modeling in different scales and would highly recommend On30. It runs on HO track, runs great right out of the box, has a good selection of high-quality, affordable RTR locos available, and takes up as much space as standard gauge HO (most equipment will run on 18" or even smaller radii although the broader the better). On30 being O scale also has great detailing potential and is enjoyable to work with due to its size - at least you can see the details without a microscope. As other posters have stated, HOn3 is finicky to work with, runs erratic unless everything is perfect, and locomotives are either very expensive brass or advanced-level craftsman kits - and even these run erratic unless you tinker with them. I currently model Large Scale indoors (talk about great detail!) and do On30 as a secondary scale.

[Anonymous]

plugsy;

I've always said that if I ever gave up on N I'd either go into narrow gauge or traction - believe it or not it would probably be traction but I have always had a fascination with narrow gauge.

I'm 66 years old - I don't have any young kids around, of course; I do, however, have a few joints that ain't what they were thirty years ago so going to a larger scale in the near future is a distinct possibility and it will probably be narrow gauge; as has been mentioned in these posts I'm not sure that HO narrow gauge gives a great deal of advantage over N-Scale and I also would recommend that you give serious consideration to On30; that's what I am going to do if I do decide I need to change scales.

Don't want to close out this response without welcomeing you to the forum; you have a couple of thousand years of talent and experience up here; I've been in the hobby for over forty years but I've learned a heck of a lot from this talent pool.  That old saw about the only stupid question is the one you don't ask definitely holds true when it comes to model railroading.

Again; Welcome!! 

[bwftex]

Mike,
  I’ve noticed a lot of cautionary comment about HOn3. I have modeled in HOn3 since I was a kid after buying my first brass C-16 with lawn mowing and hay bailing money. Here’s my take on HOn3.

  1. Its only expensive if you are a person who wants to buy new locomotives and lots of stuff all the time. Or you need a zillion cars and locomotives for some reason.
  2. The brass HOn3 locomotives for the most part are superior to any of the new plastic die cast stuff in HO or On3O and way more durable. I have a number of the newer On30 and HO locomotives. They are very nice, however they fall short of good brass in quality. Older HOn3 brass locomotives may need to be tinkered with but will run like a Swiss watch once you have them going right, and they will do so for a long time,  in my case for 30 plus years. If you get your hands on any of the older Westside models with open frame motors or an old Balboa C-19 Roundbell makes an excellent drop in gear and can motor upgrade called the Glide Drive. I think they are now offered with a DCC decoder all set to go as well. Once new gears and motors are installed these old brass models will blow away any of the newer die cast and plastic not only in looks but also in operation. They look better, they run better and they pull well for their small size.  The running quality and detail of some of the On30 stuff is fantastic but the durability is not.
  2. Good track work is very important. It is very important in any scale. If you can take the time and care to lay good track for HO or On30 you can do the same for HOn3.
  3. In HOn3 the gauge of your wheels and drivers are critical as well as things like coupler height and so on. These things are critical in HO and On30 too if you want the best running models possible. If you take the time and care to get these adjustments correct for HO or On30 you can do them just as easy for HOn3.
  4. You are entering HOn3 at a time when new RTR models are becoming available. From reports I've heard we are expecting to see a very nice looking good running die cast  K-27 from Blackstone very soon and some RTR cars as well. Micro Trains has offered some HOn3 RTR reefers. There are many kits available. They mostly would be classified as craftsman kits. They will build in to very detailed accurate models. Craftsman kits are not difficult if a person has the few basic tools, does not rush his work and will take a few minutes to read the instructions. These cars will be some what delicate but no more so than highly detailed HO or On30 cars.
  5. Not as much is available for HOn3 than say HO but more than for On30.  On3 and On30 are wonderful Scale/ Gauge combinations for narrow gauge and very nice to work on because of the larger 1/48 scale size but can take up quite a bit of space. While the track work and cars don't take up much more real state than HO, buildings eat space at about 4 times the rate.  In HOn3 an 18" - 20" radius is quite workable and the equipment does not look too bad on these tight radius curves. In HO and On30 the same radius is pushing it. Even using HO and On30 equipment that operates well on small radius curves they look kind of odd doing so.
  6. As far as kids go I've found that mine love anything dad is doing. I let my 5 year old use my Balboa C-19 and two PFM D&RGW brass coaches on a little HOn3 20" radius oval that we slide under the bed. These models are tough and other than a few paint chips and a bent grab or two he has not damaged them. Paint can be touched up and brass wire bent back into shape very easy.  After a short while he had no problem putting the locomotive and cars on the track and running his train. Being a fairly typical rough and tumble little boy he is hard on couplers and I've had to replace all of them at least once except for the dummy on the front of the locomotive. When my daughter was his age I had an Sn3 layout. She was very careful and paid very close attention to what she was doing. The layout was point to point with a freelance version of the turntable at Corkscrew Gulch on the main line. Switching cars and turning locomotives was necessary to even run trains and it was not the easiest set up for a child. It did not take her long to be able to run it all on her own. She could have run HOn3 just as well. She lost interest in trains when she was about 10 or 12 when the tomboy in her began to fade away.  Kids are capable of so much more than often given credit for.  If mine have an interest or desire to do an adult task I let them have at it. While the results may not always be perfect they often are good enough to delight and motivate the child. The other day I was watching the news and just shook my head in bewilderment at all the people who run our country. Then I considered my childern and realized they may actually be able to see more clearly and  make better dessisions right now than many adults.  Bruce
 

 

[plugsy]

Thanks Bruce and to all who replied, much appreciated.

I have had a small N end to end layout and found that although my children really enjoy watching and  running dads trains (Dads trains are models not toys..) the size of N trains were alittle small for then to really enjoy, with HOn3 Im able to get the same radius as N with HO size trains (bigger detail), since my post I have purchased a MDC HOn3 kit on e-bay and im really looking forward to the challenges of this scale, I have also purchased some flexi track and points and plan to build a small layout initially. My N gear is all modern era, and I have developed a liking for things narrow (steam, shays ect).

Having another gauge/modeling era has really kept my enthusiasm for the hobby up!!!

Thanks again all....

Mike.