Wiring question

[jacon12]

I've been trying to gather the materials I need to start the wiring of my mid size HO layout, I've got the 10 guage wires for the main bus and small wire for the feeders.  I'm having trouble finding terminal blocks (I think thats what they're called), in fact the only one I have found was at Radio Shack, and it's a little small for the size 10 wire.  The salesperson said I would need these jumpers also.

Since the block is a little to small for the wire I picked up some of the 'spade' type connectors, but as my luck would have it, they're a couple of millimeters too large also.  I can take a grindstone to each side of the connector though and make them fit (I've done the one in the picture that way), then attach the 10 guage to the connector.

My question is, how do I wire this up?  How do I use the jumper?  What is the jumper for?  The 'block' has two screws but I don't think you'd use both of them in one section.  Do I take one of the main bus wires and hook it up to one of the sections, then skip a section and connect the other wire, then connect the wires from my dcc digitrax controller to another two sets?  I'm thinking grinding the connector a little so that it'll slip into the slot and under the screw will be ok, is that correct?

Thanks for any help!

[Anonymous]

I haven't looked for them, but I would think you could find larger wiring blocks at HD, Menards or Lowes.  You might try an electrical supply house if one is in your area.

[scubaterry]

Depending on how big the connector is I sometimes can just take a pair of pliers and squeeze the tips together and slide it under the screw.  The jumper strips are used for connecting more than one set of contacts together.  Say you had a 12 V power supply going to the strip and you had to run several wires from the strip to accessories.  You can cut the jumper strips down so you can short together several connections.  One set for + and one set for -.  That way you don't have to have one screw connection holding three or four wires.

I drop feeders every three feet or so (more than needed)  and run them to a terminal strip and connect one rail of feeders to the jumpered terminal and the other rail feeders to another set of terminal screw/s.  Then you just run one wire for rail A and B to the Booster or PM-42 etc.  After reading this it doesn't apperar to be very clear.  I am sure you will get lots of help on this one.  Also check online for terminal strips they are a fraction of what RS charges.  www.allelectronics.com is one place I shop but there are many out there.
Terry

[jacon12]

stuinstra , I tried HD, Lowes and a specialty electric suppy business and none carried what is needed.  The only other thing that I've had a harder time finding locally was extruded foam (most salespeople don't know what that one is).  A salesman at Lowes said they didn't even carry them and he didn't know why.  Guess they don't sell good enough!

Hey, I appreciate you trying to help though. 

[jacon12]

Thanks for the help, Terry.  It will fit ok with a little taken off both prongs.  The main thing now is knowing where to hook up what.  If I understand you, you drop feeders down to the main bus wires and then hook the main bus wires into two separate sections of the terminal block.  What's not clear is when you said 'jumpered' terminal.  The terminal block is isolated like it comes out of the package so I think you connect your wires from the layout to the terminal and connect the two wires from the power pack and then you use the jumper strip to make connection to those points.  Otherwise, no current can get from the wires from the powerpack over to the layout wires because they're isolated.

I think that's right.. 

[rrinker]

 You can get larger terminal blocks elsewhere - Radio Shack is a poor source. You also have to get jumper blocks to fit the larger terminal strips. You also need the right size terminals for the wire you plan on terminating with them - they make them in various size ranges - the ones for #18-#14 will never fit on #10 wire, and the ones for #10 wire will never form a secure connection around #18 wire. Get the proper crimp tool - even then, I still solder mine after crimping, filling the entire sleeve where the wire is crimped with solder
 I assume you plan to use the terminal strips as a place to attach the bus wires running out your peninsulas? You aren't attaching all your feeders with those, are you? The easiest way is to use one of those nice Ideal wire strippers, mine have blue cushion grips and I got it at Home Depot, to strip back an inch or so of the bus wire (right in the middle, this tool can strip the MIDDLE of a piece of wire, not just the ends), strip an inch or so off the end of the feeder, wrap the feeder around the bus, and solder. Really takes little more time than any other kind of connection. With #10 wire - use a BIG soldering gun 150 watts or so is not overkill. If you have a dinky little iron for DCC decoders - forget it, it's WAY too small for this heavy stuff.
 The only place I even have terminal strips is at the panel where all the bus lines come together. I just made jumpers with crimp terminals and short strips of wire because eventually the jumpers will be removed and circuit breakers installed. For now I just jumpered each bus run together to make one big power district.

                                                --Randy

[SilverSpike]

stuinstra , I tried HD, Lowes and a specialty electric suppy business and none carried what is needed.  The only other thing that I've had a harder time finding locally was extruded foam (most salespeople don't know what that one is).  A salesman at Lowes said they didn't even carry them and he didn't know why.  Guess they don't sell good enough!

Hey, I appreciate you trying to help though. 

Wow, that is odd. Usually the foam is also known as Styrofoam insulation board, and I have seen it in Lowe's and HD near the lumber or insulation sections. Either pink or blue stuff.

How is that 10 guage wire to work with? Seems like over kill for DCC operations, unless your layout requires wire runs of over 100' in length.

[Milwhiawatha]

I use Miniatronics Distribution blocks. They are a little more expensive but they have a side for - and a side for +. I have used multiple sizes of wire 20awg will fit and smaller. Take a look at walthers.com and in the advanced search type in miniatronics in the manufacture, and type in distribution block. Its like a PCB board with power strips. Could probably build them cheaper.

[scubaterry]

Sounds like you got it.  But to make sure as i was not very clear myself in explaining.  Lets say you have four feeders coming down from your track (4 for trk A and 4 for trk B) for a particular section of track.  Ideally you would want only one wire per screw terminal.  So you would need an 8 terminal strip.  Cut your jumper strips so you have two four section pieces.  I take digagonal cutters and cut back the edges  abit so they don't have any chance of shorting to the terminal next to it.  Back off the screws on the terminal strip and slide one four section jumper under the first four scews and then the other jumper under the other four screws.  Screw the four feeders from trk A into one end and then the B trk feeders into the other.  Then on the opposite side of the terminal strips where the jumper is pick any one screw for each of the two ends and run a wire from them to your booster.  The jumpers simply make the four wires on one side and the main wire to the booster all one connection.  Technically you could use a four terminal strip and double up on wires.  Much more than two wires per screw is getting kind of tight particulary with heavy gauge wire.  Hope that helps clear it up.  I have several 24 position terminal strips I use.  However it is much cheaper to go with a smaller one and double up wires on the one side.
Terry

As was mentioned 10 g wire is really heavy and unless you have really long runs 14 g wire is fine.  Its cheaper and easier to work with.  However if you all ready have the 10 g then it certainly isn't going to hurt.  I use 18g for feeders and I keep the feeders less than five inches long and 14g for bus .  Of course my longest run is less than 15 ft.

[Modeloldtimer]

Hi, jocon12
I think an Awg14 should be fine for any mid size HO layout wire buss anything over that is over kill..
Awg 24 is find for track feeds to the buss.
For your Electrical  wiring needs go noline to Jameco Electronics.( their prices are great.)
They have terminal blocks, switches, hookup wire, relays, leds, bulbs, ect. DON"T goto LOWES.
http://[e-mail]
I  suggest you buy Digitrax's "BIG BOOK of DCC"
This will guide you throug all your wiring and control hookup needs.

.

[nedthomas]

# 10 wire requires a 30 amp terminal. Cinch sell blocks in the 142 series rated 30 amps. Try MOUSER.com. Do you really need # 10 wire for feeders. #10 wire is usually used for water heaters and ovens.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like you live in the southern U.S. if you are having trouble finding Extruded Foam. I live in the Chicago area so it's never a problem getting that stuff.  I swear I saw large terminal blocks at HD when I was buying a new curcuit breaker box for my house, but that was 6 months ago. I'll take a look when I go there tomarrow for some wire.

[claycts]

Jarrell: there is a product Called EURO BLOCK that is sold by the RS. It is half the price of a barrier strip (that is what you have pictured) You can buy them in 12 position and CUT them apart with side cutters into blocks  of (4) and then fasten them under the layout where you need them. They come in 3 sizes and are a lot easer to use. I have them for everything from #10 to #28 and all work great.

The Barrier is good at the head end by the control panel for multi outputs or just to split the output from the booster to multi points.

Hope this helps you.

[jacon12]

Randy, no I'm soldering the feeder wires to the rail and to the bus wire.  I also have the kind of wire stripper you're talking about.  That thing still amazes me.. 

Yes, you're right... I'm dividing the layout into two blocks and those wires terminate at the terminale strips.  I think what I have will work with a little modification, if not I'll undo it and keep hunting for a larger strip.

"For now I just jumpered each bus run together to make one big power district".

What size wire did you use to jumper each of your buses together (for now) and how did you attach it to your bus wires?

Thanks for the input!

[jacon12]

Ryan, you're right... I think it is overkill.. and if I had it to do over again I'd go with a small size like 12 or 14.  My mainline isn't that long.. about 75 feet.. and the most I'll probably run is 3 locos at one time.  Hmmm... I wonder if Lowes will take this 10 guage back.  The 10 guage is a bit stiff but that could be a plus for attaching it to the underside of the benchwork by drilling holes through the 1x4 cross pieces and simply running it through there.  That'll work in most areas but not quite all.  I'm so new at this that I'm having to learn by trial and error and help from you guys.

 

[jacon12]

I use Miniatronics Distribution blocks. They are a little more expensive but they have a side for - and a side for +. I have used multiple sizes of wire 20awg will fit and smaller. Take a look at walthers.com and in the advanced search type in miniatronics in the manufacture, and type in distribution block. Its like a PCB board with power strips. Could probably build them cheaper.

I appreciate the info, I'll check it out if I can't find it locally.

 

[jacon12]

Sounds like you got it.  But to make sure as i was not very clear myself in explaining.  Lets say you have four feeders coming down from your track (4 for trk A and 4 for trk B) for a particular section of track.  Ideally you would want only one wire per screw terminal.  So you would need an 8 terminal strip.  Cut your jumper strips so you have two four section pieces.  I take digagonal cutters and cut back the edges  abit so they don't have any chance of shorting to the terminal next to it.  Back off the screws on the terminal strip and slide one four section jumper under the first four scews and then the other jumper under the other four screws.  Screw the four feeders from trk A into one end and then the B trk feeders into the other.  Then on the opposite side of the terminal strips where the jumper is pick any one screw for each of the two ends and run a wire from them to your booster.  The jumpers simply make the four wires on one side and the main wire to the booster all one connection.  Technically you could use a four terminal strip and double up on wires.  Much more than two wires per screw is getting kind of tight particulary with heavy gauge wire.  Hope that helps clear it up.  I have several 24 position terminal strips I use.  However it is much cheaper to go with a smaller one and double up wires on the one side.
Terry

As was mentioned 10 g wire is really heavy and unless you have really long runs 14 g wire is fine.  Its cheaper and easier to work with.  However if you all ready have the 10 g then it certainly isn't going to hurt.  I use 18g for feeders and I keep the feeders less than five inches long and 14g for bus .  Of course my longest run is less than 15 ft.

Thanks Terry, I think I understand it.  Yeah, I wish I'd have bought either 12 or 14 guage.  This 10 is a bit big.  I guess it is the way to go if you have a BIG layout that you're running a bunch of stuff on.  Like I said, my mainline is only 75 or so feet though.

 

[jacon12]

Hi, jocon12
I think an Awg14 should be fine for any mid size HO layout wire buss anything over that is over kill..
Awg 24 is find for track feeds to the buss.
For your Electrical  wiring needs go noline to Jameco Electronics.( their prices are great.)
They have terminal blocks, switches, hookup wire, relays, leds, bulbs, ect. DON"T goto LOWES.
http://[e-mail]
I  suggest you buy Digitrax's "BIG BOOK of DCC"
This will guide you throug all your wiring and control hookup needs.

.

I appreciate the advice.  No, Lowes just doesn't carry what I need... at least the one in my area doesn't.  I'll check that book out.. thanks!

[jacon12]

# 10 wire requires a 30 amp terminal. Cinch sell blocks in the 142 series rated 30 amps. Try MOUSER.com. Do you really need # 10 wire for feeders. #10 wire is usually used for water heaters and ovens.

Hi Ned, no I must've mislead you somewhere.  The 10 guage is for the main bus and it, I think, is a little big even for that.  I'm using a small wire around 21 or 22 guage for the feeders.  It must be doorbell wire because it came in two colors kinda intertwined around each other.

Thanks for the help!

 

[jacon12]

Sounds like you live in the southern U.S. if you are having trouble finding Extruded Foam. I live in the Chicago area so it's never a problem getting that stuff.  I swear I saw large terminal blocks at HD when I was buying a new curcuit breaker box for my house, but that was 6 months ago. I'll take a look when I go there tomarrow for some wire.

You got it, Deep South.  Most people here don't know what the stuff is.  Funny though.. my brother in law is a trucker and he delivers it by the ton way down in southern Florida.  I had been to Lowes, an electric supply place, a local building supply place and none had the terminal blocks.  I called Home Depot and whoever answered the phone in that area said they didn't have it.  I shoulda gone by there myself and looked.  I think tomorrow I will.

Thanks for the help!

[jacon12]

Jarrell: there is a product Called EURO BLOCK that is sold by the RS. It is half the price of a barrier strip (that is what you have pictured) You can buy them in 12 position and CUT them apart with side cutters into blocks  of (4) and then fasten them under the layout where you need them. They come in 3 sizes and are a lot easer to use. I have them for everything from #10 to #28 and all work great.

The Barrier is good at the head end by the control panel for multi outputs or just to split the output from the booster to multi points.

Hope this helps you.

George, I'm using this to terminate the main bus wires into.  I'm dividing the layout into two blocks and the digitrax dch50 will be attached to the terminal (barrier) strip.

I'll google Euro Block and read up on them.

Thanks,

 

[rrinker]

Randy, no I'm soldering the feeder wires to the rail and to the bus wire.  I also have the kind of wire stripper you're talking about.  That thing still amazes me.. 

Yes, you're right... I'm dividing the layout into two blocks and those wires terminate at the terminale strips.  I think what I have will work with a little modification, if not I'll undo it and keep hunting for a larger strip.

"For now I just jumpered each bus run together to make one big power district".

What size wire did you use to jumper each of your buses together (for now) and how did you attach it to your bus wires?

Thanks for the input!

Lemme think, since I haven't looked under the layout for a while - I think I have an 8-position terminal block. I have three sets of bus wires around my layout, I was going to make 3 power districts (probably overkill, it's only an 8x12 layout), outside loop, inside loop, and the yard and other sidings. That takes 6 positions out of the 8. The first two, I connect to the output of my Zephyr. Everythign is #12 wire, that's about as big will fit in the terminal block ont he Zephyr. The other end I have crimped and soldered spade connectors. On the opposite side of the terminal strip (believe me, the jumper block thing would be easier to use), I have jumpers from position 1 to 3, and from 2 to 4. Then I have jumpers from 3 to 5 and from 4 to 6. And finally, 5 to 7 and 6 to 8. Positions 3,4,5,and 6 each end up with two spade connectors under each screw - the jumper from the previous pair and the jumper to the next pair. The jumpers are just pieces of #12 wire, each the appropriate color to keep things straight, with spade connectors crimped and soldered. About 6 inches long. Don;t try that with #10 wire, you'll have a heck of a time bending it that small to jumper adjacent terminals. #12 was hard enough - it works fine but the nice one piece metal jumper block is naturally MUCH easier.

 Oh yeah - Homer Depot should have #12 wire, that's where I got mine. They might have even more color choices in #14, which is probably sufficient (and would probably have been plenty for my layout too).

                                       --Randy

[GearDrivenSteam]

http://digikey.com/    'nuff said.

[SilverSpike]

I just moved from New Orleans in January and both Lowe's and HD had the 1/2" thick 4X8 Styrofoam board in stock. Here in North Carolina they carry the 1" thick stuff. Maybe you could special order it from them.