Beginner topic: What is staging and why do I need it? (Examples Added)

[SpaceMouse]

Another question that comes up and is not easy to answer in just a few sentences. You can tell what it is, but why is a little tougher. I believe that the majority of beginners don't allow for staging when they design a layout because, they don't know what it is and if they do, don't realize the significance. I certainly didn't, but fortunately, I was able to add it without much difficulty.

Click on the link.

http://www.chipengelmann.com/Trains/beginner/staging.html

The topic was not easy to explain, so if I have left out anything of significance, or if anything is not clear, please feel free to let me know.

[Eddie_walters]

A good primer there, Chip!

Might be a good idea to mention that "fiddle yards" are the same thing. Just in case people have read British articles on the same topic.

[WickhamMan]

Chip,

It looks like a great, easy to understand primer. I think some (including me!) would like to see how "double ended" staging would look in your diagrams.

Thanks.

[mikesmowers]

Spacemouse, I have read both of your ''Begineer topics'' today and have enjoyse & understood them both. Thanks I never knew what "staging" was until now. I wish I had known that when I was laying track. Oh well If I do not die to early I will expand again and then I will have a staging yard. Thanks again. Mike

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by WickhamMan

Chip,

It looks like a great, easy to understand primer. I think some (including me!) would like to see how "double ended" staging would look in your diagrams.

Thanks.

Double ended staging is simply having the two staging blocks on the sides be the same yard. A train coming from one end of the yard is one "block" while a train coming from the other end is the other block.

I have a single stub yard on my layout that also represents both staging directions.

The blocks are an operational schematic, not a layout plan.

is this clear?

[tomikawaTT]

When is staging not staging? When it isn't always connected to the railroad.

The Jersey Central freight complex on the Harlem River in New York was a (seemingly) self-contained unit. Freight house, team tracks, engine servicing - no rail connection to any other place, CNJ or otherwise.

Of course, everything arrived and left on car floats, so the "staging" was either car floats between The Bronx and Jersey City - or the entire North American railroad system.

On my last layout, the total length of staging trackage was considerably greater than the length of visible track - except on the Tomikawa Tani Tetsudo, which had (gasp) NO STAGING. Of course, the coal it originated was interchanged with the JNR and ended up in staging that way. There were (and will be again) two tracks in Minamijima (down staging) dedicated specifically to TTT-originated unit coal trains.

Chuck

[WickhamMan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

QUOTE: Originally posted by WickhamMan

Chip,

It looks like a great, easy to understand primer. I think some (including me!) would like to see how "double ended" staging would look in your diagrams.

Thanks.

Double ended staging is simply having the two staging blocks on the sides be the same yard. A train coming from one end of the yard is one "block" while a train coming from the other end is the other block.

I have a single stub yard on my layout that also represents both staging directions.

The blocks are an operational schematic, not a layout plan.

is this clear?

I've seen descriptions of them before but never a diagram. Although I think I have the concept down, I think a beginner would love to see a diagram of one similar to what you've got on your website.

Thanks.

[SpaceMouse]

I know of a couple. I'll have to get permission.

One example added.

[selector]

Chip, you have something going there! Good job. I had thought my plan pretty much cast in concrete, but I think I might just be able to resurrect some EZ-Track snap switches, some straights, and make a staging 'yard' that will be single ended under the real 'yard'. It will be easy to add, and easy to incorporate into the overall ops.

Thanks, Chip.

-Crandell

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

Chip, you have something going there! Good job. I had thought my plan pretty much cast in concrete, but I think I might just be able to resurrect some EZ-Track snap switches, some straights, and make a staging 'yard' that will be single ended under the real 'yard'. It will be easy to add, and easy to incorporate into the overall ops.

Thanks, Chip.

-Crandell

You know me. I'll do anything to keep you from that plaster. [:D]

Glad to be of service.

[Tom Bryant_MR]

Excellent. These gems need to have a dedicated forum.

Thanks,

[dinwitty]

Staging is simply setting up a train hidden from the normal viewing of the layout to operate on the layout (without the need of other railroads etc...) to create the train. It pretends to come from other places.

On my shelf modules however, I am sticking to the concept of zero hidden track (as much as possible) but use a concept of a "visible tunnel" where a hidden train comes out into the open to an unscenicked section, mostly to get running length, reason,... no getting under the layout to rerail.

I am going to be using a terminal operations style, virtually full trains get created there and get whisked over the line. There will be interchanges between railroads.
But no sorting yards except one near hidden yard for car storage/shuffling.
The concept is packed operation.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dinwitty

Staging is simply setting up a train hidden from the normal viewing of the layout to operate on the layout (without the need of other railroads etc...) to create the train. It pretends to come from other places...

Well, I think what you are describing is staging a model railroad, rather than modeling protoype staging. In the latter, there's no need to hide it. Modeling a yard is often modeling protoype staging.

I agree that hiding model staging tracks is desirable for the intended effect of removing the trains from sight, something the prototype and larger layouts accomplish with time and distance.

[Anonymous]

Good topic there, Mouse; read your link with interest and you pretty well covered everything.

Staging areas do not necessarily have to be hidden; a well known layout located in Texas and representing the Santa Fe running out on those flat West Texas plains uses a "visual staging" concept. He obviously doesn't have any appreciable mountains to use for hiding his trackage so he uses an area with multiple tracks and he holds his consists there until the timetable calls for their "release" either east or west. During his operating sessions no trains "runthrough" this "staging" yard. As one train is coming in one has to leave. His layout is a rather large oval operation so his trains are always pointed in the same direction and he does his pre-operation switching/consist forming using one the well-known 0-5-0 switchers.

A layout I visited in the San Diego area had a "sneak-off" where what appeared to be a branchline leaving the main disappeared into a large warehouse complex and then magically reappeared in a wooded area on the other side of the peninsula. It was essentially a reversing loop but he had about six tracks hidden behind his urban scenery and trains which went in in one order would come out in a completely different one. Urban scenery is excellent for hiding "staging" tracks.

[BRAKIE]

There is a difference between open stagging and hidden stagging as far as believability.A train ARRIVING at the yard from City A just looks better if it ACTUALLY ARRIVES during operation and either terminates in the yard or drops off and pickup a cut of cars.Now trains bound for hidden stagging or another yard located on the layout doesn't look unbelievable if staged in a open yard awaiting crews.
To have EVERY train staged in the open IMHO looses believability for your operators.
On the other hand a layout doesn't need stagging unless heavy traffic is panned during a ops session or perhaps a "railfan" type layout when a certain railfan location is modeled and serves as center stage for your trains..
Guys we are in a deep discussion that has many possibilities with correct answers and ideas..

[howmus]

So, what you're saying is, "The whole world's a stage"? Good website, chip! My staging on the SLO&W will be partiely under the layout and also easily accessable. The entire backside of it will be open, but placed so that it is not usually seen. The blue track in the upper half is the staging. The upper deck is show overlaying the staging.

[SpaceMouse]

Brakie,

For the sake of arguement, what would you call staging that exits a room and returns to the room with the layout. It is behind the operator while he is operating.



Please ignore the actual plan, it's not even a draft yet--more like an exploration.

Guys who are following, this is an example of a stub yard in this configuration.

[BRAKIE]

Chip,The club that I was a member of had that design with the St.Louis/Detroit stagging-it was double ended and enter the layout at the Cincinnati yard and the Toledo yard-it runs along the wall of the meeting room-so it is hidden stagging..However,we had a stagging yard operator that ran the trains into or from one of the yards.The main line engineer would run a ST.Louis train from Toledo to Cincinnati and the train would stop on a through track "change" crews and would continue its "trip" to St.Louis.In other words the main line engineer unplugged his throttle the DS would cut the power to that through track..Later the stagging yard operator would run the train into stagging.Later a Detroit train would "arrive" on a through track at Cincinnati, change"crews" and continue its trip across the layout to Detroit changing "crews" at Toledo.
Now add this to the trains that terminated or departed Cincinnati or Toledo and you will get the idea how busy our yard areas is..Of course the layout is point to point single track with passing sidings with a sub division that will add another 7-10 trains into the fry.
Its not uncommon to see one train leaving the yard while another enters while another waits its turn to enter or leave the yard..Yes a inexperience yardmaster can cause a melt down if he/she doesn't stay ahead of the game.You bet we had melt downs from time to time.
All this operation is done by DC..[:D]