4-6-2 in 1905?

[SpaceMouse]

Lucius Beebee in his book the Central Pacific and Southern Pacific Railroad shows a picture of a pair of 4-6-2's that he says is 1905. Actually, he showed a picture of a guy in 1905 and said something like.."In the same year, the #10 leaves Alemeda station for New Orleans behind SP 3219."

I thought the 4-6-2 was about 20 years later. I've been wrong before.

[cacole]

A simple Google search determined that, according to Wikipedia, the 4-6-2 Pacific wheel arrangement was introduced in 1901 by Baldwin Locomotive Works.

[CNJ831]

No, Chip, the design had its origins around 1900 and such engines were in fairly wide use by the end of WWI. There were also rebuilds of 4-6-0's ten-wheelers to the 4-6-2 wheel arrangements even earlier but they aren't usually considered true Pacifics as they were not originally built to that design.

CNJ831

[SpaceMouse]

Thanks guys.

[jrbernier]

The 4-6-2 was introduced in 1902.. By 1911, 4-8-2 engines were superceeding pacifics in heavy passenger service(C&O), and the 4-6-4 was introduced in 1927(NYC). Many railroads used the 4-6-2 in passenger service right to the end of steam.

Jim

[twhite]

Chip--SP was a VERY early user of 4-6-2's, especially on their First Class trains. Later, the 4-6-2's were superceded by first the MT-series 4-8-2's, and then later by the GS series 4-8-4's, but the Pacifics remained until practically the end of steam in 1956, on commuter runs in the Bay Area. There are some very interesting shots of early 1900 Pacifics also, in Beebe's book THE OVERLAND LIMITED. Seems both SP and UP were assigned Pacifics when under Harriman control.

Additional Useless Information--the first 2-8-2, or Mikado, was built in 1895 by Baldwin for the Japanese National Railways, hence it's name. It became a very popular freight loco on the SP about the same time the Pacific's arrived. SP was usually at the forefront of bigger and better power, because of the varied terrain in which their far-flung trackage operated out here in the west. They got their first 2-8-8-2's in 1911, but told Baldwin to put the cab in front after the first two arrived and the exhaust nearly killed the crews in the snowsheds over Donner Pass. Out here in California, the "Wild West" saw some pretty BIG power in the first decade and a half of the 20th century.

Tom [:D]

[West Coast S]

These early Pacific's were of the cross compound variety, they began arriving in 1904, some as coal burners, massive cylinders and extended pistons were trademarks, the trailing truck assembly was of the inboard type and the cab was equipped with a second set of fixed windows and so called chicken coop roof hatches, all these features were removed during conversion to simple starting in 1913, some inboard trailing truck assemblies survived into the tweneties however....I have just such a speciman on the workbench awaiting backdating.....

[sprobst]

According to "A Century of Southern Pacific Steam Locomotives" by Guy L Dunscomb, SP bought its first five Pacifics (2400-2404) in 1904. Its second batch of Pacfics came in 1906-07. Both were categorized as Class P-1.

-- Steve

[marknewton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by twhite

Additional Useless Information--the first 2-8-2, or Mikado, was built in 1895 by Baldwin for the Japanese National Railways, hence it's name.

Tom, with regards to the above. There was no "Japanese National Railways" in 1895, nationalisation didn't take place until 1906-07. The Baldwin 2-8-2s were built for the then-private Nippon Railway in 1897.

All the best,

Mark.

[twhite]

Mark--you're right. Sorry about that, I was quoting off the top of my head from a book I've got called THE LOCOMOTIVES THAT BALDWIN BUILT, and got the railway and the date wrong. Don't know why 1895 was stuck in my head--
Best,
Tom

[Anonymous]

Both the Mikados and the Pacific types added the trailing trucks to provide support for larger fire boxes to increase steaming ability and eventually higher boiler pressures to deliver more power. Super Power was the culmination of larger trailing trucks to provide support for larger fire boxes still.

Will

[marknewton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by twhite

Mark--you're right. Sorry about that, I was quoting off the top of my head from a book I've got called THE LOCOMOTIVES THAT BALDWIN BUILT, and got the railway and the date wrong. Don't know why 1895 was stuck in my head--
Best,
Tom

No worries, Tom - I've just finished reading a very interesting Japanese book on Meji-era railways, which is why I responded so quickly. It has a chapter on locomotive imports to Japan, and goes into some detail about the 2-8-2s. And Fred Westing's book is great, isn't it? [:)]

Cheers,

Mark.