Classic Cowls

[BNSF4ever]

Are there other "classic cowl" fans out there? The Blue Box offerings are out of production and were in need of new tooling anyway. Think of the potential Athearn could do:

F45--Great Northern, Burlington Northern, ATSF (in bluebonnet and Superfleet) Montana Rail Link, Wisconsin Central, BNSF patch, and NYS&W

FP45--ATSF (in original Warbonnet and later bluebonnet), Milwaukee Road, and perhaps even Amtrak Phases I and II (SDP40s).

[waltersrails]

sure if in BN MRL or WC

[David_Telesha]

Ugh, enough doubling of efforts.

We need some new stuff. FL-9's, EP-5, HH660's, Lima's....

[zgardner18]

I personally would like to see a RTR or something of a cowl. I have one in SF, BN, MRL (custom) and they seriously need help. I'm looking to retool them but I'm not happy about the price to pay. Oh, well. Such is life with this hobby and the new prices.

Don't forget Utah Railway
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=274418

[Anonymous]

Don't need a cowl,,,,none of my favs ever had em!
But we could use some Whitcomb 100T center cabs, GP39s, GP40WH, and by all means,,,we need more f-units!!!!!!!!!!![:p]

[potlatcher]

How about including on your list of paint schemes the former BN F45's that went to Utah Railway. The BN logo got reworked by the guys at the Utah to resemble a flying U. It was weird in a cool way (or cool in a weird way).

Tom

[Anonymous]

Heck yea! The Santa Fe Superfleet FP45s are my favorite diesels!

[AntonioFP45]

Would really like to see Athearn retool the cowls but it's likely that would not happen. I remember when they were introduced way back in the mid 1970s. Man, were they popular!

If they haven't been re-honed, the 30+ year old tooling and dies are likely shot.

If Athearn decided to produce cowls, they would be from completely new tooling, just as the Genesis line. Athearn's primary concern would be how much of a return would they get on their investment. $$$$

In the past producing molds and dies for scale models ranged in cost from the thousands to tens of thousands of dollars. The U.S and Germany were the machining capitals of the world. Now we have "outsourcing".[:(!] So as crazy as it sounds, by the time the blue printing, legal red tape, international agreements, licensing, royalties, molds/die process is complete the investment price range can hit and pass the $Million$ dollar mark.

Would new F45,FP45, SDP40fs sell? IMHO, absolutely yes, especially with "Limited Runs". However, the ingredient needed to bake this pie is convincing Athearn's management that newly retooled cowls would sell!

PLEASE, before anyone jumps on the "Well only a few railroads had them"...... cliche'; let's not forget that only a few railroads had DL109s, Erie Builts, and E33s. All 3 have been produced!

Historically, the cowls mentoned have had interesting histories that include:

1. FP45s were the last locomotives to haul Santa Fe's "Super Chief", and were capable of 90+ mph speeds. They also hauled the "Super C"; the fastest scheduled freight service in the U.S.

2. F45s were BN's "flagship" locomotives for fast freight service.

3. SDP40fs, inspite of their problems, were Amtrak's first new locomotives. Santa Fe received 18 in a trade with Amtrak, rebuilt them and they proved to be reliable. SDP40fs were basically streamlined SD40-2s.

I"m sure someday we''ll see EMD Cowls on the market. I just hope we won't have to wait "years".

[Darth Santa Fe]

It would be nice to see an F45 or FP45 with new tooling.[:D] Athearn could make a great RTR F/FP45.[:D] It would most likely have a DCC plug, directional lighting, SD40 truck gearing because the old gearing was visible through the cab and also loud, grab irons...[:D]

Why hasn't anyone made a good quality plastic version of these engines yet?

[AntonioFP45]

The more modelers that E-Mail or write a letters to the manufacturers, the better the chances of seeing these models produced. Let them know that you are genuinely interested. Have your LHS give input to them as well.[:D][;)]

[Anonymous]

Heck, yeah... BN, MRL, Utah, Wisconsin Southern would all be good choices.

However, I can live with the old tooling and BB prices a lot easier than I can having them reincarnated as $100+ Genesis engines.

[AntonioFP45]

GrayLoess,

Good news is that there are still plenty of Athearn Blue Box cowls showing up on Ebay. Last year I won a bid in which I got a powered and dummy combo for $24!!

Brass cowls have been showing up on Ebay as well.

[Anonymous]

Let's not forget we could also add NYS&W and WC to the list of F45 and FP45 names. There's also BNSF/Maersk for an SD40F-2 (SDP40F).

[Anonymous]

More cowls would be cool. I like the look fo them, and would still like to get a santa fe one, but i would go for the old blue box one. cheep and i could live with it. although I will agree with you guys that these engiens would have a market. They were owned by enough RR's and have been around long enough that a lot of differnt people could find a use for one.
~matt

[AntonioFP45]

I agree with you Matt.

Guys, I'm a "Cowl" nut myself but consider the following as far as tool & die making for producing these locomotives.

Though the EMD cowl bodies are "basically" the same styling; there are other variables in the "consideration to produce" agenda.

For one, these locomotives vary in length.
The FP45 is a giant at 70 feet 8 inches long (chassis is a stretched SDP45)
The F45 at 67 feet 5 1/2 inches long (chassis is a stretched SD45)
The SDP40F / SD40F-2 is approximately 68 feet long (SD40-2 chassis)
The F40C, if I'm not mistaken, uses a modified SD40-2 chassis.

There are also small details such as: radiator grills, porch steps, dynamic brake grills, cab doors, flat nose door / pointed nose door, pilots, gyra lights,etc.,

It's possible that Athearn could use their SD40-2 chassis under the F40C, SDP40f, and SDF40-2 bodies. The F45 could fit over a modified "slightly stretched" SD45 chassis.

The FP45 has a unique chassis that's longer than even the Genesis SD60 chassis. Fuel tank is also longer than standard EMD tanks. Again, if the old Blue Box dies and molds for the chassis' are shot, Athearn would have to start new.

The late version Santa Fe SD40F-2 might be a challenge for a manufacturer because of the "Notched Nose" modifications that Santa Fe made. The MAERSK unit is this version. How much money would it cost the manufacturer to make that "mold" for the nose notches? Again, this is where a manufacturer has to gauge "how many of these units would sell". So it would likely be practical for production to be the earlier version of the SD40F-2, just after Santa Fe rebuilt them and retained their factory noses. Modelers can always make the modifications themselves.

Anyway guys.....the point is that these are some of the considerations that, IMHO, might be brought up when a manufacturer's management sits down to plan future productions.

Hopefully Athearn or another manufacturer's marketing rep concludes that sales projections would show that cowls would sell well enough to justify the investment.[:D][;)]

[Anonymous]

Good info Antonio, but remember, Genesis doesn't do any SD60s, they do SD70s. SD60s and 50s are sold under the RTR line. They are producing an SD45-2 in the Genesis line this year though. I don't remember, aren't 45-2s longer than standard 45s? Might be able to start from there.

[dxr8007nz]

I have one FP45 SANTA FE but I will rebuild later cut out front FP45 Cab then put new SD60F Cab see how look good or ugly body

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

Good info Antonio, but remember, Genesis doesn't do any SD60s, they do SD70s. SD60s and 50s are sold under the RTR line. They are producing an SD45-2 in the Genesis line this year though. I don't remember, aren't 45-2s longer than standard 45s? Might be able to start from there.

Good point, 4884Bigboy. The SD45-2 specs at 68 feet 10 inches long. So it's smack right in between the F45 and FP45 chassis's.

I agree that it would be a very good starting point! I don't know what machining would be involved, but basically the chassis would need to be stretched in the center for accurate truck "center to center" spacing . I'm not sure but I think the measurement would be somewhere between 1/4" and 1/2." ( anybody have a calculator handy?)

[:)][:D][8D][;)]

[trainboyH16-44]

I'd much rather see an SD40-2F.. [:p]
Although I'd probably eyeball a Wisconsin Central F45! (Yes, both the WC and WSOR had them!)

[twcenterprises]

I like the looks of the cowl myself, but the Southern Railway never had any in real life. On my layout, however, there is one, complete with the tuxedo black paint scheme, and numbered one higher than the last of the SD45's. The premise behind it is that one of the SD45's was out on lease to the GN and got wrecked, and the GN sent them a cowl unit as a replacement. It looks cool, and draws comments from Southern fans who know enough to say "Southern never had any cowl units". I believe a fellow modeller with such knowledge did indicate the artwork had been drawn up at one time for Southern cowl units, but the management decided to pass.

Brad

[AntonioFP45]

Brad, interesting that you brought that up.

There actually was an "almost" FP45 buyer. The Illinois Central made plans to purchase the big cowls but was able to get a very good deal on some E9s instead. Would be neat if an IC modeler decided to do a "what if scenario" in which IC thad turned down buying those E units. Can you imagine the Panama Limited being pulled by brown and orange FP45s at 90mph? That would have been really sharp!

Nothing wrong with freelancing!

[Anonymous]

Hmmm, got to thinking, Athearn could do Santa Fe FP45s in different versions.

1967-1971: The early version of FP45s when they pulled Santa Fe's passenger trains. These could be in the traditional Warbonnet scheme and have working Gyra lights. [:D] (hey proto does it on their E units with a MARS light, how much harder could a gyra be?)

1972-1988: By this time nearly all FP45s had been striped of their passenger equipment, and all had been repainted into the Blue Bonnet scheme. They often pulled the famed Super C intermodel trains and power ATSF executive specials. They also of course did general freight work. During this time all FP45s (and F45s) were rebuilt to SDFP45s (or SDF45s).

1989-1998: This is the greatest version. The FP45s were the first locomotives to be painted into the new "Superfleet" paintscheme. They could be found doing lots of intermodel and freight work, and also helped on specials (93 and 95 ran with ATSF 4-8-4 #3751 on it's first excursion run). With the BNSF merger of 96? all the FP45s were retired one by one. I don't know if any ever got the BNSF patch.

And, just think, what if Athearn did these in the Genesis series with sound![:)]

[csmith9474]

Simply stated, YES, I would buy an FP45 in the original Warbonnet. I would also like to see a Warbonnet U30CG in plastic (although I think I have a better chance of winning the Power Ball).

[Anonymous]

Also thought of SDP40Fs (SDF40-2s) and F45s.

SDP40Fs could be done in Amtrak Phase II and Santa Fe Blue Bonnet as SDF40-2s. Also they could do again the Maersk paint scheme on a notched nose version. Sound wouldn't be to hard for these units as they are cowled SD40-2s.

Almost forgot FP45s could also be done in Milwuakee Road and Wisconsin Central.

F45s could be done in Santa Fe Cigar Band and Santa Fe Blue Bonnet, along with Great Northern, Burlington Northern, the leasor they were sold to after they left BNSF (still had blue and yellow warbonnet but Santa Fe lettering was gone), BNSF patch, Wisconsin Central, Transico Tours, Wisconsin Southern, and even the lease F45 in Daylight paint could be done!

Yeesh![;)] With all these road names, it's a wonder Athearn hasn't re-released them yet! Perhaps we should link Athearn to this topic.....

[Anonymous]

Man! I just thought of another one! I forgot that several ATSF FP45s and F45s were also painted into the SPSF Kodachrome scheme![:p]

[Anonymous]

They could release the UTAH RAILWAY's 9013, F45.

[AntonioFP45]

AGAIN, very good ideas but worthless if no one is contacting Athearn AND its competition. I've done my part. You guys here and other modelers you know can do the same.

1. E-mails, yes by all means go for it.

2. Written letters are helpful as managers often respect that the customer made the effort..

3. Especially helpful: input from local LHS's. Talk to your store managers.

Bonus:

I found out recently that model railroad manufacturers read and stronglhy consider input from "Railroad Historical Societies". It was due to the efforts of Warren Calloway and Jim Sixx that Life Like started to produce locomotives in more southeastern railroad schemes like SAL, ACL, SCL, and FEC. Both of these guys were members of railroad historical societies and spoke directly to the manufacturers.

JIm Sixx is now devoting his efforts to New York Central. I wouldn't be surprised if more NYC stuff will be coming down the line in the next year or so.

[Anonymous]

Hmm, anyone here know of anybody in the ATSF Historical Society?

[AntonioFP45]

Here you go:

http://www.atsfrr.com/

When you get there, click on Society Info. There's a list of the officers with e-mail links.

Be clear and concise when you e-mail them. I think they'll take you seriously when they see that you're very familiar with Santa Fe Cowl history.

Peace.