Custom-built brass decision?

[jblackwelljr]

Several days ago I posted a question on the “prototype” site asking how I would obtain a fairly representative steam loco that has never been produced as a model. As expected, the advice I got was to kitbash from several models to get what I wanted. Problem is, I’m not yet skilled enough to undertake such a project, and may never be. So, my options are 1) wait until I have acquired the skills; 2) compromise and buy something undecorated and letter it myself; 3) have the loco custom built.

Well, I’ve located a custom builder who can produce what I want - in brass. I’ve checked out his work (best I could) and am satisified that he is reputable and will produce what he claims. But it isn’t cheap – probably end up around $1000 with decoder w/sound. It will be a one-of-a-kind but also accurate to the prototype.

My intent was never to invest in expensive brass , but this fills my desire for an accurate model and a good runner.

Money, at least in this case, isn’t an issue, but common sense is. The little devil on my left shoulder says do it, the angel on my right says use your common sense.

Any opinions out there?.

[csmith9474]

Do it man!!!! If it means that much to you, and you have the ca***o spare, then go for it. You only live once!!

BTW, what kind of steamer are we talkin' about here???

[Budliner]

I say look around for a bit
add the dcc and sound yourself
save some money for more equiptment

[areibel]

If it's what you want and can afford, go for it! With the prices of today's brass I don't think $1k is outrageous for a custom built loco. Does that price include finishing, i.e. paint and decals too? If so that's not really bad, a custom paint job is getting pricey too.

[Anonymous]

I would be amazed if such an engine could be produced for $1000.00. Commercially produced ones are in this range, and while they are hand built too, they are made with much cheaper labor costs overseas.

I kitbashed a plastic diesel quite some time ago for a prototype railroad, they wanted one for their HQ. I actually followed an article in a magazine on the project, so I didn't have to invent much myself. The complete work from start to fini***ook me 52 hours. Keep in mind this was a commercial model chassis that I didn't have to engineer, I just bashed the body (a CP Rail SD40-2F). Even if I had charged say $20.00 an hour, there would have been a thousand dollars right there. And this was 10-12 years ago too.

Good luck if you can actually get your model for this pric. You should at least agree on a fixed price before anything is started, to avoid any shocks later.

Bob Boudreau

[Virginian]

I'd have to say that a custom built brass steamer, completely finished and with DCC, for $1,000 sounds too low to be great. Look at what BLI is charging for their "mass" (okay, small mass) produced brass GN 4-8-4.
I have spent more for an N&W Class A and a Y6b (when brass was the only option), so if you want it, I would definitely say go for it for $1,000, BUT, make sure you really are going to get what you want. You tend to get what you pay for, so take care. I would stipulate some guarantees around some good pictures and specifications of the subject locomotive.
If it turns out this guy really is that good, how about getting a quote for a VGN 2-10-10-2?

[ARTHILL]

I agree, the price is way too low. Make sure it has the detail you want, enough castings to be believible, and a paint job that is worthy of the effort.

[Anonymous]

If you decide to go forward with this I would recommend executing a signed and witnessed contract stipulating the price and time period to completion, even if the custom builder is someone you know. Also don't pay more than half or the cost of materials as a down payment.

[selector]

I would keep looking for other brass manufacturers, the custom made guys, and see if you can get a sense for what a realistic cost should be for what you want. At some point, you will say to yourself, "Nope, can't do it," or you will know that it is a reasonable price for what you should expect. For example, what if two others say there's not way in heck they could do what they would consider a product traceable to them for less than $1800. Then you'd be in a position to find out what about their product is different from what this other fellow is going to give you.

Just a thought.

-Crandell

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jblackwelljr

Several days ago I posted a question on the “prototype” site asking how I would obtain a fairly representative steam loco that has never been produced as a model. As expected, the advice I got was to kitbash from several models to get what I wanted. Problem is, I’m not yet skilled enough to undertake such a project, and may never be. So, my options are 1) wait until I have acquired the skills; 2) compromise and buy something undecorated and letter it myself; 3) have the loco custom built.

Well, I’ve located a custom builder who can produce what I want - in brass. I’ve checked out his work (best I could) and am satisified that he is reputable and will produce what he claims. But it isn’t cheap – probably end up around $1000 with decoder w/sound. It will be a one-of-a-kind but also accurate to the prototype.

My intent was never to invest in expensive brass , but this fills my desire for an accurate model and a good runner.

Money, at least in this case, isn’t an issue, but common sense is. The little devil on my left shoulder says do it, the angel on my right says use your common sense.

Any opinions out there?.

My first question would be, what steam locomotive are you looking to have built?

That question having been asked, $1,000 sounds a little low for a well detailed steam locomotive. The price of detail parts alone could run to a fairly hefty sum.

Andre

[mikebonellisr]

$1000 for a custom brass w/a decoder seems like a great price.Today a decent brass model can go for 1,250 and up.If he does good work,it's well worth it.

[jblackwelljr]

The locomotive I’m after is a Reading 4-6-2 G2 with Wooten firebox – specifically #175.

Enough experts have raised questions that I’m going to do a little more research into what I’m getting. There will be a written agreement and the price does include painting, decaling and DCC w/sound. There is a 25% deposit with balance due upon completion. This builder is legit - I’m just a little unsure about the component materials.

Obviously I don’t want to mention names until I have all ducks in a row – there’s always the possibility I’m not clear on all the details and I wouldn’t want to tarnish his integrity– which is why I posted this in the first place. Thanks for your guidance.

[jblackwelljr]

OK guys, my hat is in my hand. I apologize for getting everyone revved up but it is not brass. I’ve only communicated so far with the builder via email and looking at his website. From this I interpreted that it was all brass. A rookie mistake.

It’s actually a zinc frame, Bowser drivers, engineering grade urethane superstructure and add on brass parts. Can motor, DCC w/sound, painting, decaling and some other goodies all included for around the price mentioned in previous post.

He assured me a brass loco would cost around $2k.

I suspected something was up when I saw 9 replies in about 45 minutes! It’s no longer a real good brass investment but I still think it’s good for me.

[modelmaker51]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jblackwelljr

OK guys, my hat is in my hand. I apologize for getting everyone revved up but it is not brass. I’ve only communicated so far with the builder via email and looking at his website. From this I interpreted that it was all brass. A rookie mistake.

It’s actually a zinc frame, Bowser drivers, engineering grade urethane superstructure and add on brass parts. Can motor, DCC w/sound, painting, decaling and some other goodies all included for around the price mentioned in previous post.

He assured me a brass loco would cost around $2k.

I suspected something was up when I saw 9 replies in about 45 minutes! It’s no longer a real good brass investment but I still think it’s good for me.

As a custom builder myself (sorry, I don't do steam!), this sounds reasonable as long as you don't care about the "collectabillity" value as a non-all-brass model generally doesn't appreciate in value as a "brass" model would. (This has always kind of irked me as those so-called collectors seem to value the low skill/low paid labor of the brass imports that are only hand-assembled versus the skill it takes to produce a one-off custom built model of a specific prototype, regardless of the material used to build it).

[Virginian]

Okay, you done good, and now have some ducks lined up. Brass or not, if it was a prototype I really wanted and couldn't get any otehr way I would go for it. Talk to him about making it as heavy as possible.

[jblackwelljr]

.Modelmaker51 – Brass was never a priority for me. Worrying about collectability takes away the fun factor. I agree, the value is in the workmanship, quality and accuracy of the model. That may not carry much value on the market but I’m not buying it to sell it.

Virginian – The builder has told me there will be considerable metal weight in the boiler.

And yes, there is no other reasonable way for me to get this prototype. My wife will be happy to hear how I justified this. “Hey honey, wait till you hear what Virginian and the others said………….”

Thank you gentlemen.

[Anonymous]

You may want to check with the angel again to see if Life-Like, Bachmann or BLI aren't arrainging for tooling for that exact loco as we sit here typing. Don't forget this is a "public" forum and corporate minds may be reading. I am sure that MTHRules has already dashed off an E-Mail about this thread!

Seriously the project sounds very interesting, and offers an approach not often concidered in getting what we want. I would love to listen to the recording of the discussion with your bride about the project. You might concider marketing that recording as a "How to" for the rest of us to offset the cost of the Pacific.

Will

[ARTHILL]

Now that you know what you are getting and the price seems appropriate, if you like the builder's reputaion and want the engine, it is a real good deal. Thanks for sharing the discussion as we all learn this way.

[tatans]

jblack: Yikes, it looks like you pulled out of the crash dive just before being shot down, I know I sure learned a lesson, caveat emptor. It really pays to ask a few questions and delve into the transaction, this reply should be a lesson to a lot of people including me, good luck.

[jblackwelljr]

Overdurff – 6 years ago I took my wife to Ireland for our 25th anniversary. We renewed our wedding vows on Galway Bay - and that was my idea. I’m still collecting on that trip, but this loco will probably use up all that capital. Next month we’re going back - I have my eye on a T-1. Planning, planning, planning.

ARTHILL & Tatans – I’m more than happy to help educate forum members – even at the expense of a little embarrassment!

[Virginian]

I always wanted a "J", from when my father and I used to watch them rolling towards Norfolk on Sunday afternoons. My Dad died in 1959. I finally got a J about 1981. It was way too expensive. Not one regret.