"N" or not to "N"

[Anonymous]

I am just beginning my first layout and it appears to me that the opportunities for detail (weathering, detailed scene constuction etc.) are somewhat limited in N scale compared to the larger scales. Am I correct or is it just a matter of expertise? Chuck

[tomikawaTT]

Judging by examples in MR, RMC and TMS (Tetsudo Mokei Shumi - Japanese language) it's purely a matter of skill and practice. Quite often it's impossible to determine the modeled scale without reading the photo captions.

I personally model in 'Twice-N' scale (aka HOj - 1:80) and quickly learned that my ability to create believable results improved quickly with practice - but is still far short of that of real experts building in N!

[Anonymous]

Obviously, you can have more detail in a larger scale. However, the current n-scale models, both rolling stock and structures have excellent detail. You have to realize that with n-scale, there is a limit to what you can see (without a magnifying glass), but you can create incredibly detailed scenes in n-scale.

My layout is in n-scale. To me, the biggest drawback is selection. There are many, many n-scale products, but the selection is at best about 1/10th what you can find in HO - particularly with respect to steam locos.

Of course, the advantage is that you can fit in so much more in n-scale. Use code 55 rail and get quality products (and a good set of magnifying eye glasses) and you'll have all the detail you could want.

[bcammack]

One thing about N vs HO. Things you would notice as lacking in an HO layout shrink to imperceptibility in N. I'm talking about tufts of grass, etc.

[beegle55]

Definatly not to "N"! You should probably go with HO all the way. Not only is it space efficient, it includes very detailed items, the widest range of avalible accesories, and is at lower cost than N scale and other scales. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

I enjoy N for the size. Of couse its probably not te best for small children. But I enjoy the challenge of the smaller size. Like above, the selections are limited, but well worth the results

[beegle55]

Yea N isn't that bad, but I'd definatly have to stick to HO.

[Anonymous]

It depends on what you want to achieve and how much space you have. I believe that N scale is the best because no matter what you want to do, you can do more in N scale excepting the limitations of the equipment available. If you want to pull mainline freight and have limited space and you want prototypical length trains or something close , N is the way to go. Also, they look more realistic from viewing distances, in my opinion. Panoramic views are more realistic than HO. You can squeeze in a lot more detail on rolling stock but to me that is less important than a believable railroad scene. And I belive that you can do much more in any given space in nscale.

[wjstix]

I'm moving to a new house this year, and have been thinking seriously about changing from HO to N. I really like the Kato products like the extensive "unitrack" line, I would be using that if I do go to N, plus they make very nice locomotives and even buildings (pre-built with interiors).

http://www.katousa.com/

[trainfan1221]

When I was in HO I would try to do some weathering on my engines and rolling stock. Now that I am in Nscale I don't bother, really not worth it. I also notice that a lot of other modelers don't seem to worry about it too much. I appreciate good detailing and a good runner as much as sweating the small stuff like whether the engine looks used or not. It's small enough that it's harder to notice anyway.

[n2mopac]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lanejm

Obviously, you can have more detail in a larger scale. However, the current n-scale models, both rolling stock and structures have excellent detail. You have to realize that with n-scale, there is a limit to what you can see (without a magnifying glass), but you can create incredibly detailed scenes in n-scale.

My layout is in n-scale. To me, the biggest drawback is selection. There are many, many n-scale products, but the selection is at best about 1/10th what you can find in HO - particularly with respect to steam locos.

Of course, the advantage is that you can fit in so much more in n-scale. Use code 55 rail and get quality products (and a good set of magnifying eye glasses) and you'll have all the detail you could want.

I would have to [#ditto] this reply. Selection is always a problem, but the up side is it forces one to be creative and to work on those scratch building skills. All said, however, I have been in N scale for 10 years and I love it. No plans to switch.

Ron

[jecorbett]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tomikawaTT

Judging by examples in MR, RMC and TMS (Tetsudo Mokei Shumi - Japanese language) it's purely a matter of skill and practice. Quite often it's impossible to determine the modeled scale without reading the photo captions.

I personally model in 'Twice-N' scale (aka HOj - 1:80) and quickly learned that my ability to create believable results improved quickly with practice - but is still far short of that of real experts building in N!

I find this interesting. I had never heard of this scale. I am curious as to what attracted you to it since it is not significantly different from regular HO. Is this a scratch builder's scale or are there commercial products for it?

[Adelie]

Depending on the era you want, the selection aspect may be overrated. Let me give you an example.

I model in the late 1950s, and switched to N a few years ago. There are definitely more freight cars, passenger cars, locos, buildings, etc in HO than in N by a large margin, including in my era. Yet, my roster has more than enough freight cars, locomotives, and a trains-worth of passenger cars, etc. What good would having more available do me?

If I were modeling an era 30 years earlier, it would be an issue.

I do weather the equipment and structures. It is probably less of an artform in N than in HO, although somebody who has a passion for weathering passion may disagree.

Figure out your "givens and druthers" including space available, operating preferences and era, and see where that leads you. Neither scale is better than the other, but one may fit what you want to do and your circumstances more than the other.

[shwango]

You can also check out another current thread - Dilemma between scales - http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=60919

[Anonymous]

and this thread
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=60192

Kinda makes one wonder if the original posters ever look before launching a new one

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cdill
I am just beginning my first layout and it appears to me that the opportunities for detail (weathering, detailed scene constuction etc.) are somewhat limited in N scale compared to the larger scales. Am I correct or is it just a matter of expertise?

After being an N-scaler for many years, this is exactly why I switched back to HO. with the current state of technology it is impossible to get the same level of detail in N. I was researching how big a wire to use for a scale 3/4" grab iron. In HO it came out to a very small number, in N-scale it was unthinkable. And this was all before my eyesight began to go bad.... If I can do a tounge-in-cheek generalization... It takes twice as much expertise in N-scale to get something that looks 1/2 as good.

If detail is your thing then: not to "N".

[jecorbett]

If I ever hit the lotto, I mean the really big one, I think I will build a huge barn, insulated, with heating and cooling. Then I will build, better yet, commision someone to build, a large dual rail O gauge layout. I'd allow enough room to give me access from behind the backdrop as well as the aisle, allowing me to have 4 foot deep scenery. It would be a walk around plan with lots of staging. You could really do justice to O scale with that kind of room. And my aging eyes would still be able to appreciate the fine detail.

[ericmanke]

I think it can be both. The N scale stuff keeps on getting better and better, as does the HO stuff. I think that everyone has a detail threshold, and most people that are in N and stay with N have to make detail compromises based on size and availability, which are the 2 biggest challenges with the scale. The best question to ask yourself is what is more important: Space or detail. If space were not an issue for me, I'd go back to HO, but it is, and have had to dumb down my detailing a bit. There will be no grab irons on my N scale geeps. There are some fantastic N scalers though that do make very detailed models and scenes. Availability is still a problem, and kitbashing is harder, because of the lack of things to choose from, but it is getting better. Good luck trying to get a manufacturer to do an N scale RS27. Heck, we don't even have a decent bay window caboose. Here is a site that I go to for inspiration for N scale. There are alot of great modelers on this site and more than half are in N.
http://www.railimages.com/gallery/
As far as skill goes. Practice makes perfect in almost everything in this world. So try a project in N and see what you think. Then try another one, and see if you've gotten better or learned something, Thats what I'm doing, and I am getting better slowly but surely. Good luck on your decision

[Anonymous]

I have to completely agree with ericmanke. Youll never know till you try. Try both if you want. But N is definatly worth a shot

[bryanbell]

If details are what you are looking for, I'm throwing in my two cents for HO.
When I was getting back into the hobby a couple of years ago, I went to a LHS to compare HO to N. I had an HO train set and a few structures when I was a kid but I didn't have much experience with N.
Comparing the two side by side, the two didn't just compare. Even the best detailed N scale locos and rolling stock look like toys to me. I'm sure many many people would disagree with me but to me because the model is so small, it just doesn't look realistic.
I'm not a huge rivet counter by any means but N scale details just don't do it for me.
The issue about availabilty is becoming less and less of an issue all the time and the argument about getting more in the same space is a valid one. That also means more space to fill. Yeah you can get a 100 car N scale train in the same space of say a 30 car HO scale train but with the price of N and HO scale cars virtually the same, N scale gets much more costly usually.
Just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions.

Bryan

[Bikerdad]

Weathering is weathering is weathering, regardless of the scale. What you need to do is consider the "viewing distance" that you'll be comfortable with. Super-detailing isn't as important in N scale because you're standard "viewing distance" is 160'+. The tradeoff is you can get impressive and substantial scenery, sweeping vistas, etc.

[CraigN]

If sound is an issue, then go with H.O. scale. there's room for the decoders and speakers.

If high detail is an issue- the larger you model, the easier to superdetail.

If watching long trains being pulled by 3 of 4 engines is what you want- N scale is where it's at. Yes, you can do it in H.O. too but, you use up alot more space to do it.

[tomikawaTT]

To jecorbett - this would be an E-mail, if that was an option.

HOj, 1:80 scale on 16.5mm gauge, is a purely Japanese scale similar to the HO-OO compromise used on the far side of the Atlantic. The prototype track gauge is 42 inches, which actually scales out to 13.3mm, but the earliest models of Japanese rolling stock were compromised to run on HO standard gauge track. There is a tremendous amount of commercial product available, but only Japanese prototype and almost entirely in Japan.

As you might surmise from the above, I model Japanese prototype.

[on30francisco]

You should make your decision based on what scale you feel comfortable working with. I found out by trial and error that if things are too small or intricate for you to comfortably work with, you are going to turn your enjoyable hobby into a frustrating task. When your hobby becomes more like frustrating work rather than relaxing pleasure, it's time to make serious changes. Although I like the looks, the scenic possibilities, and the advantages of N and HO scale , I found these sizes very frustrating FOR ME to work with. I model On30 and am finding even that size frustrating for me to work with. I recently built a logging caboose and a flatcar in Large Scale that I originally built in On30. What a pleasure it is to work on Large Scale models - from the basic construction to the intricate details - compared to the frustrating and trying times I had in building the same models in smaller scales! Although I live in an overpriced cracker-box apartment in San Francisco, I'm seriously considering switching over to Large Scale because I really enjoy working with it and love the detail. Although the amount of space I have should logically steer me towards the direction of either N or HO scale, I chose a larger size because I enjoy working with it. I figure I could put a loop of track with some spurs around the perimeter of the room, build some very small structures, and concentrate on the strong points that Large Scale modeling offers, such as superdetailing, ease of scratchbuilding, and great running. I definitely can't have the amount of railroad and trackage in Large Scale that I could have in the smaller scales but what I could have will provide the most enjoyment for me.

N scale has the advantage of running long trains, especially if you're interested in modern or mainline railroads, and creating realistic-looking, spectacular, panoramic scenic effects. HO, O and larger scales are good for intricate details, creating super-detailed mini-scenes, and modeling steam-era, branch-line, and back woodsy railroads.

You should build some small diaoramas in HO and N or any other scale you're interested in and "test the waters" before you commit yourself to a specific scale. You can then get experience working in different scales and opt for the one(s) that give you the most enjoyment before committing yourself to a permanent layout - and remember - a diaorama can always be integrated into a layout. If you discover you like more that one scale or gauge, why not model in both of them. Two small layouts that give you enjoyment are better that one large one that proves frustrating to work on.

[trainfreek92]

QUOTE: Originally posted by beegle55

Definatly not to "N"! You should probably go with HO all the way. Not only is it space efficient, it includes very detailed items, the widest range of avalible accesories, and is at lower cost than N scale and other scales. Good luck!

Ho space efficeint???? Not on a small layout. You can do so much more in a small space with N. I model New England N scale and love it!

[Anonymous]

For years I have been an advocate of O scale and equally devoted advocate of G scale. However, I have always favored N scale trains due to thier compact source. You can pack all the action of a typical 4' x 8' HO layout in a 3' x 5' layout.

[3railguy]

You're best bet is to spend $60 on an N scale starter set with a good engine such as those by Life Like headed by an SW switcher or GP-20. Most include a structure kit to try out along with a few trees, etc. It's a great way to see if N scale is for you. The engines in these particular sets are near to Atlas quality.

Don't let the biased remarks distract you. Experiment and be your own judge. As others have said, N scale allows a lot more in a given space. If you are into long trains and vast scenery, N scale is a good scale to model in. If you decide you don't want to model N scale, your starter set can be deligated to something like table top decoration for the holidays because they come roadbed track that locks together and doesn't come apart.

Even though the selection is rather limited with N scale, it seems to have grown tremendously in recent years. The quality has improved vastly too. To find out more, a good magazine is N Scale Railroading. It is a well done and has all kinds of great articles on kit building, scratchbuilding, detailing, and weathering.

One method I like best is working under a magnifier lamp. It gets you close to your work and most flaws disapear under the naked eye because they are so small. Laser cut structure kits have become popular and with some practice, turn out very nice. Start small with these such as switch towers, billboards, etc.

You will find out the N scale community is both modelers and collectors. Collecting can be addictive and I find the hunt for that perfect freight car to be just as fun and rewarding as the modeling side of the scale.

[ATSFCLIFF]

Detailing, weathering or modelling scenics are skills you will acquire as you go along regardless what scale you model.
Availability of good engines and rolling stock is as good as HO except that there are few good running steamers. Depending on what and where you buy, prices are comparable with HO stuff.
I model in N scale and do not have problems in getting my supplies!
Cheers,
Cliff
http://cliffordconceicao3310.fotopic.net/c328807.html