Tunnel Troubles

[SpaceMouse]

I know how to cast and build a tunnel interior, but the track is problematic and fear, I'll be dragging engines and cars out by the scruff of the neck if I cover even for 4" of so. Right now I see everything...

So my ideas so far have been to:

1) Paint everything in the area black.

2) Put in a mini backdrop so that the view from the front is blocked, but I can still reach the loco from the center access hole.

Any other suggestions?

[howmus]

In most of my tunnels, only one interior wall is visible where anyone would see it. I used foam board in layers painted black on the visible side leaving the side not seen open for access. I too don't want to have to resort to demolition to extract derailed cars in a totally enclosed tunnel.........

[Walter Clot]

I'm planning a tunnel and thinking of putting some re-railer tracks to cut down on problems. Has anyone tried that? How is it working?

[JohnT14808]

How about a light weight mountain that could be lifted off the track, when needed?

[jxtrrx]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JohnT14808

How about a light weight mountain that could be lifted off the track, when needed?

Exactly what I do, John. I made my whole mountain removeable. It's hardshell over foam. A line of bushes/ trees/ rocks hides the seam as needed. I can lift it off in a disaster... actually haven't had to... but I'm glad I could.

[Anonymous]

On a previous layout my father and I constructed, we made a wall that was glued to a 3foot long 2 x 4. The rest of the tunnel we didnt have any interior walls or anything. We lined up thinner pieces of wood with the tunnel portals. The pices of wood didnt matter cause where they were restin was on the edge of the table.

We then drilled holes in 4 - 6 spots through these pieces of wood and glued dowells in them. THen we had 1 1/2 thick foam that sat on top and was held on with the dowels. The dowels didnt show at all, but this made it easy to lift this section up if there was a derailment.

It worked out pretty well, until we expanded the city that was on top of the tunnel. Sorry I dont have any pictures of this.

DON

[selector]

My mine spiral and major tunnel both use the same hollow, very large, mountain. The lower main, in the big tunnel, is mostly exposed at the rear, and I can access it because of the tapered backside of the layout...at the rear of the mountain. Additionally, I have made the top half of the mountain removable because that is the only way to access much of the spiral.

I, also, left slabs of foam inward from the portal for about 12", and painted them flat black with a latex paint. This darkens and hides/masks the interior close to the portal. Further back, it is open on at least one side, but always on the side facing the closest edge of the layout for the purpose of access.

[TBat55]

If you can't fix a derailment, you'll hate cleaning the rails. A piece of plaster or ballast and a lot of other debris can get in there.

You need to see inside (add a light) and maybe get a vacuum in there. Include rerailers. Put in extra effort for electrical reliability.

Give the removable section concepts a LOT more attention. I'd also suggest a screen bottom to catch cars but let dust fall through.

I have a very large mountain with 3 tracks. One side of the mountain is connected to shelving with a pegboard panel that opens up for tunnel access.

[Pruitt]

Here's a radical thought.....

If the track is problematic fix it!

No, I'm not trying to be a smart-aleck.

Years ago, on a previous layout I had all sorts of problems with derailments. I did several things to reduce derailments: 1. I gave up on Atlas and other stamped-points turnouts and went to Peco and Shinohara. 2. I paid more attention to the quality of my trackwork in general, especially at rail joints, turnouts and grade changes. I also started using simple easements on curves. I checked all "high-risk" spots with an NMRA standards gauge, and if I just couldn't get trains to run over a section a track after spending a few hours tweaking it, I ripped it out and re-laid it with new track. Problem solved every time. 3. This was the most effective thing I did - Before a car hits the rails on my layout, it gets sprung trucks and Kadee couplers; everything being checked with the appropriate gauges. Most importantly, if a car just insists on derailing despite reasonable efforts to fix it, it is permanently removed from the layout.

With these three steps, derailments are almost non-existent on my layout now, and when they do happen are almost always my fault (throwing a turnout in the moddle of a train, for example). So I'm not worried about trackage in tunnels or other limited-access areas - the trains will be fine. But for added insurance I do install rerailers near either end of long tunnels, and also between curves in tunnels.

[Anonymous]

Loads of good ideas above.
just one elaboration... why not go further on restricting the view into the tunnel?
it's not that unusual for there to be some sort of bridge just before a tunnel mouth... road, foot or pipe for gas, sewer or whatever. While this must be clear of the structure gauge it does help break up the view.
The angle and height of any retaining wall approaching the tunnel can combine with this.
Both of those are in addition to any buildings or trees.
At the end of the day though I think iyt's best to avoid any track you can't get at...'cos that's ALWAYS where you get problems... they invent themselves just for the location.

Have fun.

I re-read the question... you appear to be planning only 4 inches of tunnel. That should be no more problem than putting trains / cars into a warehouse. Except (and I think that this is what you're getting at) you'll be able to see through it to whatever is - in fact isn't - inside the tunnel. that is... instead of trains going into a big dark hole in a hill they'll be going into a short light hole that you can see the other end of.
many layouts do this and there is no real problem... because, when it comes to it, we are creating miniature theatre and when we look at it we "suspend disbelief". We all know that the train going into the tunnel isn't off to the rest of the world and we happily ignore all the bits we can see through the tunnel mouth that shouldn't be there.

Real tunnels can be very short so your suggestion of a short piece of backdrop beyond the tunnel is a good one... could start with the retaining wall and then be a factory wall just beyond the railroad/factory fence. It wouldn't need a lot of work because you will only ever glimpse it at a distance.
Then again a matt black background will work as well.
I've seen both black doors and "drapes" used to make the tunnel "deep and real"... they're fine so long as you always get them out of the way before a train reaches them. I think though that most people are happy to just ignore the unpainted wood, plain track, mug of coffee, cigarette in a***ray and all the other junk that can often be seen through tunnel mouths in scenic breaks.
It all depends on what you personally want. If it's really important stick a factory building between you and the tunnel mouth, a bridge (from one part of the factory to another) over the line, blacken the tunnel interior and add scenery beyond the tunnel.

Don't forget to have fun [8D]

[MisterBeasley]

My subways have multiple lift-off sections. Some are made of 2-inch foam carved into terrain, and I've just started using 1/4-inch poster board for a flat town scene. Another section is covered with Masonite to give me stiffness on top of the station. The only places where I don't have lift-offs is where there is track above crossing the subway line.

The lead car of my subway train is equipped with a video camera, so I made sure to scenic the insides of the tunnels. However, I found that I can't really see the inside of the curves with the camera, only the outer walls, so that's a possible access route. Still, going in from the top is a lot easier.

Since I only run the subway trains down there (freight engines won't even clear my low-profile tunnels) I don't seem to have any of the problems you get from the occasional cantankerous gondola or box car. I've had the subway tracks down there, complete with Atlas snap-track turnouts, for 9 or 10 months now. I've never had a derailment, except when I set a turnout the wrong way. But yes, that does happen, so I'm not surprised that the lift-off I need is the one over the most frequently used (and mis-used) turnout. I'm hoping that I'll get better at that once I've got the control panel indicators wired up.

[Anonymous]

Mister Beasley
I suggest that you wire the power in the rails of that turnout (and more than a train length before) through a switch that works with the turnout. that way your train will stop but not fall off until you set the correct route.

Um... I mean it will stop until you re-route not that it will fall off... [%-)]

[robert sylvester]

When we built a large layout in the early nineties, we tried to plan for this type of situation, making sure that we had access to all tunnels.
First of all our layout was quite high and you could ride a rolling stool under the layout at key points, and the tunnels were all open underneath just using frame work to suppport foam mountains that were carved out with only a shell for the mountains. Our mountains were large, some covering a length of 5-6', with heights of 4-5'.
We also tried to make sure that one edge of the mountain was against the fascia. On the fascia side of the mountain we hinged the fascia so it could be opened, like a door and drop down, and this would also give us access to all tracks in tunnels.
Removable tunnels are a great idea, but we found that having access under each tunnel allowed us to fix a problem, and we wouldn't destroy the integrity of the land scape each time we removed a mountain.
Some times you just can't help it, but we tried to keep switches or turnouts out of tunnels. There was one, but we could access under the tunnel with the stool and there was even a light up in the tunnel that could be turned on for repairs or derailments.
WTRR
Dispatch Office

[SpaceMouse]

Sorry for the lack of clarification. The layout looks like this.



There are 5 tunnel portals. Three of them have switchpoints that are in the tunnel--hence the problematic. If they are thrown wrong... I know, I know.

I have access underneath.



But sticking my hand into a little bitty hole.

[MisterBeasley]

Yeah, David, I thought of doing something like that, but it's too late now because everything is layed down and ballasted. Also, since I've got the camera in the lead car, I usually run the 4-car subway train in "push" mode with the powered car in the back.

[Anonymous]

When I planned my current layout, I took a tip from the New HO layout at the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry. I located my mountain on the right front edge of the layout. The tunnel interior is completely exposed along the right edge and offered me the oportunity to completely detail the interior of the tunnel.

I used the stacked foam board method of building the mountain, covered with thin layers of plaster. The trains are completely accessible in the event of a derailment; and small children love the perspective of actually seeing a train moving throught the tunnel.

It is also easy to keep the track clean.

[selector]

By itty bitty, you mean...4", maybe more, Chip? That is a tough reach alright. So, would it be reasonable to hinge the mountain, nearest the centre of the layout, so that you can lift the closest edge, on the outside of the layout, and reach under to get at what you must?

[Anonymous]

Mister Beasley
If you can cut section gaps with a dremel tool you might be able...
Reason I mentioned the approach length of track was that I guessed you must have power at the back to be pushing through on 2 rail.
If you need to alter your ballasting to solder in new power feeds why not detail the ballast as maintenance work... like i'm always going on about :-)

and Spacemouse...
I think this applies to you... If you switch your power with the lay of the points/turnout/switch you shouldn't get any problem of derailing going through in a trailing direction. Facing you should only ever go the wrong route... which is okay so long as it's not a dead end. Maybe you can do this before you do the scenic stuff. Some sort of switch indicator would probably be a help... even just a mechanical one to the face of the board?
Mr B... what cameras are you using? Could you post a thread to guide others please?

[:)][:)][:)]

[MisterBeasley]

I'm using the camera from www.wirelessmicrocolorcam.com with their DCC power supply, too. Jerry supports his product very well. I needed a couple of wiring modifications to fit the whole package into the car, and he did all that work, plus paid the return postage, for the staggering sum of $15.

This is the unpowered car and the camera and power supply as originally built:


Here's the same thing with the parts modified to fit:


And this is the package after installation:

[Anonymous]

Wow! [:)] Tell us more please!

Any chance of a video from it running?

What subway is it? Who makes the cars?

When you say DCC power do you mean that you have a DCC system and that it just takes direct from that to operate? How does it feed the picture back to your screen/monitor. What do you think the whole thing cost to get up and running?

Now I'm wondering about fitting a camera into a P2K E6... I have a UP A-B set and I'm pretty sure that the power chassis would fit into the B unit making the A unit free as a camera car. Where does the camera sit in the cab end? behind the driver's window?

You just get one thing done and up comes another... that's probably the definition of a good hobby... or house maintenance... [(-D]

[MisterBeasley]

I'm going to break this off into a separate topic. We originally started talking about access to hidden tunnels spaces to fix derailments and (ugh) clean track. That's an important enough topic that I think we should get back to it.

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: "So my ideas so far have been to:
1) Paint everything in the area black.
2) Put in a mini backdrop so that the view from the front is blocked, but I can still reach the loco from the center access hole" ...

.

Chippen Mouser - you iss gettIng Schmardt !

Only in Real Estate it's "location, location".
In model railroading it's "access, access"

Re tunnels: watch over-hang.(stright locomotives following curved track).