Hiawatha

[Anonymous]

I have long coveted a Milwaukee Road "Hiawatha" for my layout... (the steam version).

That pretty much, so far as I know, means finding one of the Rivarossi's still kicking around, or going brass... and brass ain't gonna happen.

The Rivarossi locos/sets show up on Ebay from time to time. I'm fine with Rivarossi as a brand. I have many of their passenger cars, and a handful of locos, all of which have proved satisfactory to me. So that's not the issue.

My question is, has anyone converted one of these locos to DCC? I've never really "converted" an older Rivarossi loco... all mine are either later models that had "the plug" ready to go, or have not been converted yet (two NYC hudsons buried somewhere in an as-yet-unopened box from my house move last year)

Converting older locos, having to deal with tender pickup, isolating motors, etc. is one of my least favorite tasks in the hobby... I'm wondering if that's what I'd be getting myself into if I gave in and grabbed one of these.

[MisterBeasley]

What class of steam engine was it?

Can you get a decal set and do the re-badging yourself? That way you could start with a much newer engine. In the long run, that will probably be less effort than trying to bring an old loco up to modern DCC standards.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MisterBeasley

What class of steam engine was it?

Can you get a decal set and do the re-badging yourself? That way you could start with a much newer engine. In the long run, that will probably be less effort than trying to bring an old loco up to modern DCC standards.

Doubtful. The Hiawatha is a fully shrouded, very unique loco. They came in both 4-4-2 and 4-6-2 form, but kitbashing a standard pacific up to the streamlining they had is way, way, way beyond my skill level.

[jondrd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kchronister


I'm fine with Rivarossi as a brand. I have many of their passenger cars, and a handful of locos, all of which have proved satisfactory to me.

[wow], Re: Riv locos. I never thought I'd see that statement made by anyone except maybe an Allegheny owner.

Brass may be it. The major plastic loco manufacturers don't seem to feel there's big enough market for streamlined versions of steam(OK, BLI has the N&W J as does Bachmann and Bachmann has the SP GS4 in Daylight garb). I have a streamlined Riv Hudson I use as a display on the layout ala K4 at Horseshoe Curve. Hats off to Riv for not only making a streamlined Hudson but several iterations of same. They're pretty but leave a lot of performance to be desired. JMHO


Jon

[Anonymous]

Jon - You on DC or DCC? All mine (on which I'm basing the "okay with them" statement) are operating on DCC (which I find tends to make all locos perform better) and are of more recent vintage than their streamlined steam...

[Virginian]

If I wanted a Milwaukee F-7 Baltic I would get one.... somehow.
If you cannot afford a brass loco, convert a Riv. version. It is not that difficult. The Riv's used isolated motors anyway. I never had any trouble with the tender pick up link, and if you put the decoder in the tender you can use that link going the other way anyway for one less wire. The cab is wrong on the Riv for an F-7, but the paint job tries to make up for it a little. And a Riv can be tweaked to run quite well, even the earlier versions. The ones I have seen on the bay in gereat shape are not cheap either, usually pushing or passing $300.
A Milwaukee F-7 4-6-4 Baltic, or the 4-4-2 version even, are very beautiful and distinctive locos. They are some of my favorites. I am also an N&W 'J' lover from birth. My day had HO trains. I was never, repeat NEVER, satisfied until I bought my own BRASS J, the very first HO engine I bought. I have never regretted it. I still have it. Something to keep in mind, unless you can talk BLI or PCM into making one. (Man don't that make you drool?!) Then you are going to NEED a beavertail observation too you know!
Good luck.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Virginian

If I wanted a Milwaukee F-7 Baltic I would get one.... somehow.
If you cannot afford a brass loco, convert a Riv. version. It is not that difficult. The Riv's used isolated motors anyway. I never had any trouble with the tender pick up link, and if you put the decoder in the tender you can use that link going the other way anyway for one less wire. The cab is wrong on the Riv for an F-7, but the paint job tries to make up for it a little. And a Riv can be tweaked to run quite well, even the earlier versions. The ones I have seen on the bay in gereat shape are not cheap either, usually pushing or passing $300.
A Milwaukee F-7 4-6-4 Baltic, or the 4-4-2 version even, are very beautiful and distinctive locos. They are some of my favorites. I am also an N&W 'J' lover from birth. My day had HO trains. I was never, repeat NEVER, satisfied until I bought my own BRASS J, the very first HO engine I bought. I have never regretted it. I still have it. Something to keep in mind, unless you can talk BLI or PCM into making one. (Man don't that make you drool?!) Then you are going to NEED a beavertail observation too you know!
Good luck.

Yeah, I know I'll need the beavertail too. And from what I see, that would be an even tougher nut to crack than the loco.

Thanks for the info about converting the Riv. That helps. And yeah, I maybe should knuckle down and do brass for this one. But there are half-a-dozen streamliners that fall into that category, and I don't want to get crazy... Off the top of my head, I can list a Dreyfuss NYC bulletnose Hudson, a Santa Fe Blue Goose, the Hiawatha, the John Wilkes and the Pennsy one-off K-4 they streamlined. Rivarossi did make all of these but the K-4 at one time or another, thus my interest goes beyond just the Hiawatha.

I continue to be surprised that more manufacturers don't make streamliners. The ones that show up on E-bay (and they're on pretty often) always create a feeding frenzy. A Riv Hiawatha just went for north of $600... Maybe there's not enough demand to support a mid-price, high-volume item like Spectrum, but I gotta think there's enough to make an upper-end-but-not-brass like a Paragon Platinum worth doing...

Certainly, you'd think someone would shoot out the streamlined K-4 Pennsy did... They sure have made multitudes of every other K-4 variation!

HEY!!! BLI!!! You there??? MAKE STREAMLINERS. I will buy them. I know many others who will too.

[Milwhiawatha]

There is also Kaslo shops in Canada that does custom manufacturing of trains in any scale. The dont produce the hiawatha but I am sure they would look into making one if there was enough demand. Like we at Milwmodelersgroup at yahoo got them to producing an SDL39. I am sure if we get enough people interested they would make an Hiawatha and even the Skytop parlor cars.
I myself have a Rivarossi Hiawatha and it works great. And I was thinking of converting it to DCC and now that I know its possible I will be doing that after my millions of projects lol.

I am not in any way affiliated with Kaslo shops but check them out but first see if there is a want for a top notch plastic model like the Hiawatha before you do.

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kchronister

I have long coveted a Milwaukee Road "Hiawatha" for my layout... (the steam version).

That pretty much, so far as I know, means finding one of the Rivarossi's still kicking around, or going brass... and brass ain't gonna happen.

The Rivarossi locos/sets show up on Ebay from time to time. I'm fine with Rivarossi as a brand. I have many of their passenger cars, and a handful of locos, all of which have proved satisfactory to me. So that's not the issue.

For what it might be worth to you, you'd probably be better off looking for a brass version of the Hiawatha than waiting around for a reasonably priced Rivarossi example to turn up on eBay. The 4-4-2 Rivarossi Hiawatha is considered to be one of the very few true "collector's items" in HO, being Rivarossi's first HO locomotive brought into the United States. Unfortunately, the locomotive shell often has stress issues and more damaged versions are found than perfect ones.

The much later 4-6-2 Rivarossi Hiawatha was done, as I recall, as a very limited run, speciality item which commands big bucks whenever it happens to turn up. Thus, the $600 price tag for the recent example on eBay. I seem to recall that the original issue price was around $300 , in a time when a $100 HO model was considered very expensive.

CNJ831

[jimrice4449]

As the proud owner of 4 Hiawatha's (1942 Afternoon Hi, 1947 and 1950 Olympian Hiawathas and 1953 Afternoon Hi) with two more "in process", all brass, I can appreciate your desire and frustration but you should be aware of some problems. The first is that all of the Hiawathas from 1935 up until Amtrak were highly distinctive, having been built in the milwaukee's own shops (with just a small handful of individual cars from Pullman). The Riv. cars are simply their standard S/L cars (mostly Pennsy prototype) painted to represent the Milwaukee cars. The S/L Hudson is a NYC S/L Hudson with a modified nose and Milw paint. Nickle Plate Products brought out both the A class Atlantic and the F-7 Hudson in brass and while not the greatest mechanically, look reasonably accuarate, especially when you compare the prices against the later Overland and PSC. The cars are a real problem as the only appropriate cars with a steam engine would be pre-WWII and they, as luck would have it, are the most distinctive of Hiawatha cars. Post WWII Milw cars could be reasonably cobbled up using brass car sides on plastic car bodies. For the hyper-distinctive observation cars (pre and post WWII) you're pretty much on your own unless you go the used brass route which, given their scarcity and desirability, would be really pricey.

[jimrice4449]

As the proud owner of 4 Hiawathas (1942Afternoon, 1947 and 1950 Olympian and 1953 Afternoon) with two more "in process" (1935 and 1939 Morning) I can sympathise with your problem. There are some things you should be a3ware of though. First, the Riv "Hiawatha" Hudson is actually the NYC S/L Hudson w/ a modified nose and Milw paint. A bigger problem is the cars. The Hiawathas were highly distinctive trains, the cars (w/ a small handful of exceptions) being built in the Milw shops. The pre-WWII cars were the most distinctive and they would be the ones most appropriate for use behind a steam engine. For post WWII cars you could make reasonable models by adding sides from Brass Car Sides to plastic cars. For the Hyper distinctive observation cars you're pretty much on your own. In brass Nickle Plate Products brought out both A class Atlantics and F-7 Hudsons which, while not the greatest mechanically, were fairly good models at the price which would be substantially less than the later Overland and PSC versions.

[jimrice4449]

Sorry about the duplication but the STUPID FLOOD CONTROL kicked in even though it had been over 15 minutes from my previous post and when that happens the original post gets repeated along w/ the "corrected" one. I sometimes get the same flood control on the first posting of the day!

[billlong]

I think IHC in Pa. has the Hiawatha Semi-Streamliner. I have found most of their stuff lacks in quality, but the price is low. Check out the web site:
ihc-hobby.com Good luck. I have the Milwaukee Road "Hiawatha" and am satified with it as is. The colors and paint scheme are pretty good, but this is of course all relative.

[wjstix]

The Rivarossi Milwaukee 4-6-4 is a fairly accurate version of the Milw streamlined. Some people might be confusing them with the Rivarossi "Chippewa Hiawatha" 4-6-2.

This is the Pacific:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rivarossi-NEW-4-6-2-Hudson-Pacific-Milwaukee-HO-Scale_W0QQitemZ6035234420QQcategoryZ19129QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

BTW a big drawback is that the paint is wrong - the engine and all 8 Rivarossi cars use brown paint where they should use maroon.

[Anonymous]

I too am a HUGE fan of the Hiawatha streamliners. I presently have a 1939, 7 ribbed 7 car consist with a Shrouded F74-6-4 Hudson... They are by Nickle Plate Products, and, while not as detailed as the PSC or others, i'm sure that once i add interiors and have the engine painted ( the cars are already painted) it will be a pretty nice train. Hang in there, and if possible, keep your eyes open and pick them up piece by piece. If you like, i can try and post pictures.

[Virginian]

The cab on the Riv 4-6-4 is wrong; the cab should extend forward and have the same slope as the black paint. But, it doesn't look that bad. Those were some fine engines in real life, hitting 100 plus frequently with little strain.

[Todd M. Taylor]

I continue to be surprised that more manufacturers don't make streamliners. The ones that show up on E-bay (and they're on pretty often) always create a feeding frenzy. A Riv Hiawatha just went for north of $600...

Wa-wa-what!??!?!  Oh man, maybe it's time to let go of my Riv Hiawatha that has done nothing but sit in it's box on the shelf since I bought it years ago  

[Milwhiawatha]

I have had offers of $700 to $800 for my Riv Hiawatha. i wont let it go tho, it was my first steam locomotive that I fell in love with, and the first locomotive that wasnt a $30 bachmann diesel, also was the first Steam engine my father paid for because He knew I wanted it. well plus my dads friend told me, my dad wouldnt buy me the locomotive. The next day my dad told me to order it sent the business the money amd 4 days later it showed up while my dads friend was visiting lol his eyes dropped and couldnt talk.

[VAPEURCHAPELON]

I have had offers of $700 to $800 for my Riv Hiawatha.

Amazing! I paid below $1050 for an unused up-to-date, beautyfully and correctly detailed - and great running - PSC brass version.

[Milwhiawatha]

I thought the people were sort of nutz I'm like yeah ok no. I dont know whats wrong with people they see Milwaukee Road hiawatha and they will do anything to get it. Its plastic  I personally would rather have brass but the Riv will have to do.

[Todd M. Taylor]

I have had offers of $700 to $800 for my Riv Hiawatha.

Yikes!  I just pulled mine down off the shelf (I haven't looked at it in years!) and I can't imagine paying that much for it.  The price tag on my says $229 from back in 2001.  I'm thinking I might sell mine closer to when Walther's releases their Hiawatha series of passenger cars.   Since I don't have a layout and probably won't have one for many, many years, someone else might as well enjoy the unit rather than have it sit on my shelf!

[Milwhiawatha]

I use mine as a fan trip special. I have one of the sets of Riv cars but I think they might be retired when the Walthers set comes out.

[wgnrr]

I'm sure you guys know by now that Walthers is releasing the Twin Cities Hiawatha. It's not the '35 version, but who can not resist those Skytops and Superdomes!

http://download3-7.files-upload.com/2007-07/20/02/Hiawatha_Poster.pdf

Phil