Bench-work overbuilding...problem

[dragonriversteel]

Hello all,

Do you guys tend to {over-engineer} bench work ? Sheesh... I torn down the old layout in order to us some of the peices for the new DRSC. Over engineering is a easy way to say....worked hard all day, could swear like a sailor,but won't ,due to kiddies listening.

I really don't think a earthqauke,forrest -fire or hurricanne could have destroyed the mighty old layout. Screws are great ,but I might have gone a little over board. LOL

This next steel pike ,will be built strong ,ridged and fool-proof but not over engineered. I think instead of using 2X4's ,I'll use 1X4's for all the bench work, with 1X4 riser's and 1/2" ply-wood,with 2 " extruded foam board. Sounds like a plan to me...more to follow.


Patrick
Dragon River Steel Corp {work in progess}

[Beowulf]

It doesn't hurt to make it strong enough so it resists damage if someone leans on it or even stumbles against it. With drywall screws requiring no pilot or clearance holes and with hammer drills and concrete anchors, sturdy construction is quick and easy.

[bogp40]

Sounds like a job for a worm drive Skilsaw and sawzall. Firewood anyone?
Bob K.

[Anonymous]

I use 1X4 spaced 16", and where it meets a wall, 2 screws right into the studs. I don't think it is over engineered though. 2X4's yeah, maybe just a tad overdone, but it didn't fall apart, right?

Glenn

[tomikawaTT]

A lot of us tend to forget that we are only facing the kind of loads normally placed on a picnic table, then build something like a very low second-story floor system. Some of the blame may go back to the early, "How to build benchwork" articles in the model press 40 and more years ago. Then, 1x4 joists were recommended for spans in the 48 inch range. Today we realize that is gross overkill, but the practice remains.

[fiatfan]

I may be guilty of going too far the other way. 1x3 and 1X2 L girders, 2x2 legs, and 1x2 joists. Then flop some 1/4 luan plywood and homasote on top and away I go. I put a corner brace in each corner for stability. I'm hoping to be able to move it in about a year or so. I should be able to take it apart and haul it out in four easy sections, each of which can easily be lifted by two people. Keep your fingers crossed.

Tom

[tstage]

Patrick,

Better to over-engineer than under-engineer your benchwork - especially if you have to lay on top of it for some reason. [:O]

Tom

[IRONROOSTER]

One of the things that gets overlooked is the availability and cost of materials. some people find 2x4's cheaper than 1x4's. My experience with pine boards is that in the cheapest grade 1x3's are of such poor quality, usually warped, that they aren't worth the effort, but I can usually get 1x4's that will work and they are cheaper than the better quality 1x3's.

Enjoy
Paul

[rrinker]

I used 1x4's. For the next phase I will be using 1x3's because they willbe PLENTY strong enough. I used 2x3's for the legs which is huge overkill but only because the only place for lumber around here is Home Depot and they don't have 2x2's other than as pressure treated deck railing and those are quite a bit more expensive than 2x3 studs. I used 1x2's to cross brace the legs. Rock solid - I am not going to use the layout as a trampoline and it doesnt move when I lean against the side, therefore I conclude it is plenty sturdy. If I had a table saw I would consider the technique of ripping 2x4's to make 2x2's, but I don't have a table saw. In fact I did all the sawing for what I have by hand - 1x4 and 1x2 pine saws quite easily by hand if you have a decent saw.

--Randy

[mononguy63]

I agree wholeheartedly that most benchwork is overbuilt. When I'm not dreaming about trains, I work as a structural engineer (sometimes those overlap) and as such have developed a number of opinions on what's being put under layouts.

Point 1 - I've read about a lot of layouts that use 3/4" plywood for the roadbed. The roofs of most houses are only 5/8" or even 1/2" plywood or OSB supported by trusses spaced at 24" centers! Unless you intend to use your layout for piano storage, 3/4" simply isn't justifiable. My last layout used 1/2" plywood roadbed and worked just fine. I intend to use it again when I start building my next. It might get a little flimsy for narrow strips cut across the grain, but a small piece of scrap glued to the bottom stiffens it up very nicely thank you. Plus, has anyone noticed the price differential between 1/2" and 3/4" plywood? It's a no-brainer.

Point 2 - I'd submit that L-girder benchwork is one of the most egregious frauds foisted upon the model railroading community. Why go out and purchase two pieces of junky 1x lumber and go to the effort of gluing/screwing them together to form a single member? In comparison, a single 2x4 is stronger, more dimensionally stable, cheaper than the two 1x's together, and you don't have to waste time fabricating it.

Finished ranting.

[fiatfan]

Mononguy63 - I had a perfectly good example this past week of why I use L girder rather than a 2X4. I was installing a new bridge and had to move a joist and realign some track. Some quick work with the electric screw driver and everything was repositioned. All screws were accessible from the bottom. Time spent - about 15 minutes.

Just my 2 cents.

Tom

[orsonroy]

I learned a long time ago that most layouts were overbuilt, and wasted their owner's time, money and material. My first "real" layout (something more than a 4x8) was a fairly large 5x32 layout in my parent's basement. Well, I followed all the benchwork articles from the 1980s to the letter: 2x4 legs, 1x4 L girders, 3/4" plywood, and 3/4" Homasote. The benchwork was rock-solid..I could DANCE on the thing! The benchwork survives today as my father's N scale layout, and will probably be in the basement when the house finally sucumbs to time.

Once I got out on my own and was in a position to start building new large home layouts, I rethought my benchwork biases, tested all sorts of materials, and finally came up with something that was cheap, effective, strong, and fast to build: foam. Since I prefer linear shelf-type layouts, I'm specifically talking about 2" foam on 1/4" Lauan plywood, supported by metal shelf brackets. Building l;ayouts using these materials is blazingly fast, surprisingly strong, and almost idiot proof. And since I'm building a midwestern layout, and don't need to worry about huge height transitions, mountains or huge gorges, it's actually much cheper to use than traditional benchwork. I'm more than happy with foam construction, and will NEVER go back to the "old ways".

[sledgehammer]

I built mine ruged enought to stand on it if a have too. i way 200 lbs most of the stuff i can reach anyway. I started with 2x4 and the dried out and guess what happen the y warped and my layout look like the ocean. so I went to the local discount lumber yard and bought some 5/8 plywood for 15 bucks a sheet ripped it up and made my cross pieces with them. its much cheeper that 2x4 any way.

[mononguy63]

Tom:

You make a good point about being able to reposition joists. I've used AutoCad to lay out my track and benchwork so I'll catch any conflicts like you mentioned before they happen and everything will fit up perfectly :-)

For the joists on my upcoming layout, I plan to use 2x4's laid flat across 2x4 continuous supports. I'm doing that for a few reasons: They're still plenty strong, and I can screw into them from the bottom for things like risers for my elevated track. Plus, I have several lengths of 2x4 already on hand and am acquiring more by scavenging the scrap piles from homes under construction in my neighborhood, so it'll be really cheap.

Jim