Metal wheels or plastic wheels? HELP!

[Anonymous]

I have been running mostly Athearn type wheel sets (metal shaft with plastic wheels) and I have almost no derailments on my layout. I have a few Atlas cars with metal wheels and I really like them. Now I would like to change all my cars to metal wheels. I bought Life-Like wheels sets (plastic shaft with metal wheels) and change the wheels on 12 cars. They roll much easier but they derail at the turnouts too often.

Would I have better luck with Kadee or Intermountain wheel sets?

[csmith9474]

Sounds like you may want to try more weight first before replacing all the new wheels. I have overall heard good things about Proto wheels.

[tpatrick]

Before you blame the wheels, take a good look at your turnouts. For example, I have an Athearn ready-to-roll tank car that consistently derailed going through one crossover. No other piece of rolling stock had trouble there, so it had to be the tank car, right? No, it was actually due to a slight misalignment between the turnouts in the crossover.

In another case I discovered one of the point rails slightly low. Most of my cars passed right through with no trouble, but a few seemed to ride over the point rather than follow it. The solution was a small wedge under the point to bring it up even with the stock rail.

So look very carefully at all your turnouts.

As to whether you would have better luck with Kadee or IM, my guess would be no, at least not more reliable operation. But I think you will find that all metal wheels will roll even more freely than your metal wheels with plastic axles. I use Branchline wheels on all my cars. My engines can pull far more with them than with they could with any form of plastic wheels or axles. If you want to run longer trains, by all means make the switch to all metal wheels.

[csmith9474]

Another thing to look at is make sure you didn't overtighten the trucks.

[Anonymous]

Be painfully aware that up-graded metal wheel sets come in various axle lengths.
P2K, KD & IM all are different lengths plus 20 others. Do a forum search.

[jecorbett]

You really should get an NMRA gauge so you can check both your wheels and your track. You could have a problem with either or both. The gauge should tell you which it is.

[cmrproducts]

As stated above, check your wheel gauge. I have not found too many of the wheel sets (and this is just about any car mfg and wheel set) that are in gauge.

Once you are sure that they are in gauge then you may have to check the turnouts. If the cars did not derail befor then the track should not be the problem.

Also make sure that the trucks are not too tight. And are the cars weighted properly? This goes a long way in keeping things from derailing.

BOB H - Clarion, PA

[loathar]

You need to check the above metioned things. I'm replaceing all my wheels with Proto 2000 and they work great! About $1.50 per car and well worth it. Some gaugeing may still be neccasary.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the tips.
I have been checking all the things you have mentioned and found that as a car derails and I check the truck, it is lose but not 'wobbly lose' (technical term). I back the screw off a half turn and so far it works. I do think I need a little more weight though.

I will go ahead with my plans to convert to all metal wheels and check them with the NMRA gauge before I install them. (I have to go back and check the wheels I already installed)

Locomotive3 mentioned metal wheel sets come in different axle lenghts. What can I do if they are different and how much difference is too much. (more research)

Smitty - I like your 'Inside the Cab' photo. It will make a good desktop picture.

[csmith9474]

Take it!!! It is a screen shot from MSTS!! Well, maybe not, but that was a fun day.
[:)]

[cmrproducts]

They make a reamer tool (called The Tool - Micro Mark) to open up the truck frames. BUT I have never found a set of wheels that were too tight yet. All of mine have been on the loose side!

BOB H - Clarion, PA

[miniwyo]

If you are gonna replace youre wheels, you should consider Intermountian wheels. They are the best rolling ones in my opinion.

[Anonymous]

I used IM's because the P2K's I had fell apart on me. They just constantly shed metal off on my rails, and on the rag when I tried to clean them, and probably would have eventually wore to nothing, but I switched everything to Intermountains before that happened. Most people have good experiences though, so mine must have just been a freak deal, but I'm still sticking with the Intermountains.

Greg

[jrbernier]

Metal wheels are the way to go. I have most of my fleet equipped with P2K metal wheels. I have never had a problem. I do have a Reboxx/Micro-Mark 'tool' and ream out every pair of trucks. This gets any plastic 'flash' out of the journal area and produces a nice 60 degree 'cone' for the axle to run in. Like I mentioned, many of my cars are equipped with P2K wheel sets. I bought them for 12/3.50 though the mail. They are now 12/6.50 - I now buy Intermountain wheels for 100/55.00 - the price per axle is virtually the same and the Intermountain wheel sets have metal axles.

Jim Bernier

[Medina1128]

As stated above, I would check the gauge of your wheelsets and turnouts. I have some RTR cars that had the wheelsets out of gauge right out of the box. I rarely have had gauge problems with turnouts. Even so, you may want to file a small niche in the seat where the turnout meets the stock rail. Check a PECO turnout to see what I mean.

[waltersrails]

i have the same problem with mine buts its only on 2 out of my 40 cars with metals.

[Don Gibson]

h021921 - SOMETHING IS AMISS.

If your "Athearn type" wheels didn't derail WHY are replacement's?

QUOTE: I have been running mostly Athearn type wheel sets (metal shaft with plastic wheels) and I have almost no derailments on my layout

Something has changed besides wheel brand's! Until you find what else is the cause, you will contiue to have problems.

Since you dont know what it is, start with the AXLES. Do they fit?
Then check the truck's for side/side & verticle play.

Proto 2000 metal wheels are cheap and have had questionable Quality Control problem's, but out-of-guage wheels hasn't exactly been one of them.

GET yourself (1) an NMRA gauge (2) a Kaydee Coupler height gauge and (3) two pkg 's of JayBee wheels - one with NMRA axles and another with NEM axles. .(Both are available through Walthers). ONE should work.
Jay Bee wheels are precision machined to NMRA spec's - and you need to start somewhere. Economize later.

DERAILMENT'S can be caused by many thing's - but they are always physical in nature - but Since you had no problem's until you changed wheelset's (and wheelset manufacturer's being offshore), I suspect a mismatch between your sideframes and axles. In fact I'd bet money on it.

[Don Gibson]

h021921:

You ARE using the same size wheel's, aren't you.

[Anonymous]

try different conbinations. what works for me maybe won't work for yoi. and if it don't work as it should take them back, and get a refund.

[Anonymous]

They are 33" wheels. They look to be the same size.

I like the metal wheels because the roll more freely and they just sound better going down the track.

I have the NMRA gauge and the Kaydee Coupler height gauge and I will get the JayBee wheelsets you recommend.

I think I can make these wheels I have work for now but you are right about economizing. This is not the place to do it.

Thanks for all the help.

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by h021921
I have been running mostly Athearn type wheel sets .... I bought Life-Like wheels sets (plastic shaft with metal wheels) and change the wheels on 12 cars. They roll much easier but they derail at the turnouts too often.

The axles are too short. Your Athearn cars will be sitting lower to the track so the coupler magnetic wires might be catching on things like the diverging rails. Plus the side-to-side slop might cause them not to track as well.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson
Since you dont know what it is, start with the AXLES. Do they fit?
Then check the truck's for side/side & verticle play.

[#ditto] Our club decided to go to all metal wheels to keep the track clean (that ended up being a big joke - but also another story). So we spent hundreds of dollars to convert the cars. We began having all sorts of problems and found that the Proto 2000 wheel sets are WAY to short for a standard Athearn truck. The cars would actually slop side to side, and they sat slightly lower too. So we did some research and spent hundreds more dollars getting wheels with the right sized axles (came up with 33" Atlas "Caboose" wheels as the cheapest solution). Anyway now the derailment problems have gone away but we are having short circuiting problems with the Peco insulfrog turnouts. The metal wheels touch both diverging tracks at the same time. In some hand laid turnouts they short with the non-engaged point rail. AND the noise the metal wheels make is horrendous. Since the metal wheels didn't help the dirty track problem at all because of the electrical and noise issues there is now a big push by some of the members to go back to the plastic wheels.