New to model railroading...sort of

[Anonymous]

Hi,

I am looking for some advice and opinions. A long time ago, 1976 to be exact, I received an HO scale train set. At the time I only had track on a piece of plywood, but it brought me alot of enjoyment at age 9. Of course it was short lived and we had to move. I was never able to set it up again.
Fast forward present day.....I now have some room, maybe 4x8 give or take, that is if the wife gives or takes, to have a layout. I want to share this experience with my boys. They are ages 12, 8 and almost 4.
Now for the opinions. What age is good to start the boys out at and what scale do you think would be best? I did talk to a local hobby shop last year and they recommended 13 at a minimum. They also recommended the O scale which is well out of my price range. I thought that that was strange, but I have been out of it for a long time. I can really use any help that is out there.

Thanks for your time.

Darrick

[DrummingTrainfan]

I was allowed to look at the layout and watch the trains run for as long as I can remember. I believe i got my first railcars when I was 8 or so (they were some cheapie $3 cars). I would say to start now with the 13 and 8 year old running stuff and letting the 4 year-old watch. In terms of scale its totally up to you. I'm in HO and was able to run trains from an early age, but then again all kids are different and being the parent it's your choice whether you believe the kids are mature enough to handle trains.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the insite. Right now the layout is going downstairs in a family room. Because of the set up of the room, I can only get the space along a wall and out some. I won't be able to pull off an around to room layout. I would love to though. I have champagne dreams on a tap water budget.

Thanks again.

[railroadyoshi]

That does seem rather strange. I think you should be able to start them in HO at those ages. I started seriously building my first HO layout at age 8. I had an N Scale train set when I was 4. (Kinda odd, isn't it, starting at a smaller scale when little).
Back to the point, HO should work for them.

4x8 has been the most commonly used layout size for decades now. This was mainly because of the lumber's availability.
However, these designs are rather unrealistic, and don't use the space well. What is better is to design a shelf layout to go around that space. The shelf can be anywhere from 6 in to 18 in deep.

Before you start building, you are going to want to read up. Read this forum, and read a few books from the LHS. Many people paticularly recommend John Armstrong's Track Planning For Realistic Operation for track planning. It is a pretty involved read, but very helpful.

I also recommend that when you start out you use DCC. Your earlier set probably came with a regular DC pack. This pack controlled the amount of power going to your loco, and thats all. Also, locos in the same electrical section did the same thing as the others.
With DCC, the system sends signals to your locos. These allow you to control different locos seperately and control their feautres as seperate than their velocity.
This said, it is entirely sensible and much cheaper to remain with DC. I am still with DC, and for my needs it works fine. You can upgrade later on to DCC if you wish.

[railroadyoshi]

Well, you responded during the time I formulated my post, but you don't need to go all the way around the room. Often you can have it run as a shelf on one or 2 sides and have return loops at each end.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the help. I am looking into all the options I have and trying to decide what is best. I am intereted in DCC, I know it is expensive, but would it be more expensive in the long run to start DC then change everything? Are the "standard DC" engines upgradable to work with the DCC if I change later?
I am going to stop in a couple of different hobby shops. Unfortunately, there are none that are very convient for me. The few I have stopped in lately have very limited model railroad sections and the people who worked there were not very help with any information.

Darrick

[pcarrell]

My boy has been railfanning on my layout since day one. He was pretty much an armchair railroader at that point, not a lot of "hands on" ya' know but he liked it. Now he's 10 and really enjoys it.

If I were in your shoes I'd give HO scale a good hard look. I model in N scale and, while my son is good with it now, he had trouble rerailing such small wheels when he was younger. Plus, HO is easier to come by at garage sales and goodwill stores and stuff, so it will be easier and probably cheaper for the little guys to have "their own" loco's to run, thereby sparing your prized showpieces the indignity of being dropped, mishandled or otherwise mutilated as little as possible. I know that my boy is very good with the trains, but he's a young boy and they do have accidents. Having his onw loco to have accidents with keeps some of the grey hairs off of my head, ya' know?

O scale might be better from the ease of operations standpoint, but you'd loes your shirt on the investment side of things. I think your salesman was trying to make his quota off of you.

[Anonymous]

I am a fan of HO since that was what I had so long ago. I keep looking at N with one eye due to the space limitations. I like the idea of the boys having their own locos. I can't afford anymore grey hairs.
I do believe you were correct about the salesperson. Hopefully I can find a hobby shop that will be able to give me some information and insight without trying to fill quotas.

[ereimer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dfm161

Thanks for the help. I am looking into all the options I have and trying to decide what is best. I am intereted in DCC, I know it is expensive, but would it be more expensive in the long run to start DC then change everything? Are the "standard DC" engines upgradable to work with the DCC if I change later?
I am going to stop in a couple of different hobby shops. Unfortunately, there are none that are very convient for me. The few I have stopped in lately have very limited model railroad sections and the people who worked there were not very help with any information.

Darrick

the main advantage of DCC is how easy it is to run multiple trains on even the smallest layout . 3 boys and yourself trying to run a train each on a 4x8 may be pushing beyond the space limits of a small layout but it's very possible . with DC you'd have to break the layout into a number of blocks and you'd have to set a switch to the correct setting before moving your train into each block . your 12 and possibly 8 year olds could figure it out , your 4 year old would need constant supervision or he'd end up frustrated when his train stopped because he entered a block where the switch wasn't set correctly . with DCC they'll all be up and running in minutes , and be explaining it to you by the next day [:)]

most locos you can purchase today are marked "DCC-ready" on the box , that means it should be fairly simple to add a decoder later

[cwclark]

most of the boxes say ages 8 and up...so 8 sounds like a good round number...the guy at the LHS don't know too much if he said 13...I got my first lionel at age 7 and took good care of it as a kid....now to your second question...yes O gauge is a nice gauge to model but if you are like most of us...way too pricey, and if all the room you have is 4X8 then O gauge won't be much of a railroad...you may want to consider HO or N gauge...you can get a fair amount of railroad in the alloted space with these gauges...HO is the most popular and offers the most selection of accessories with N becoming just as popular...I model HO because N gauge is too tiny for my big hands and failing eyesight...N may be too small for your sons' hands to handle so that leaves HO...you can get a double main and a couple of sidings and spurs in in a 4 x 8 space...model railroader is offering a DVD called "Dream, Plan, Build "...there is a feature in the DVD narrarated by Michael Gross (the guy that played the father in the sitcom "Family Ties" and also an avid MRR'er) that has a step by step plan for building a nice 4 x 8 railroad for the begginer in the hobby...the DVD shows a person how to build a nice HO gauge RR from the ground up....maybe you might want to check it out to get an idea about building your layout...chuck

[HoosierDaddy]

Here's a little experience from a father of 4 and 6 year old boys. The 4 year old likes to see the trains go as fast as possible. His favorite is to pretend the engineer and brakeman have to stop and get out to use the restroom. Meanwhile, the train takes off without them somehow, unattended for a few circuits around the layout. Much hilarity ensues.

The 6 year old likes to "do it like the real trains do." He is allowed to run trains by himself if he wants, but not to pick them up or put them on the tracks by himself. He needs help from me to uncouple cars, but he can rerail things himself if necessary. He takes great pride in ownership of his new Spectrum 2-8-0 that he got for his 6th birthday. He does his own sound effects, from squealing wheels and clanking couplers, to chuffing steam and tooting wistles. Who needs sound equipped locos?

It was only because he had shown good respect for the other equipment that he got a locomotive with that level of detail. He had to show me that he was responsible with the el-cheapo life-likes and bachmanns first.

The 4 year old is still relegated to running Thomas and a couple old bachmann f7's that if they died, it wouldn't be too bad. He has fun too, and if he shows more responsibility and interest as he gets older, then he'll get to graduate to better engines too.

besides all that, I'm the biggest kid in the trainroom, and I've probably damaged more things than them combined.[:D]

HD

[fwright]

To champion the O side of things a little (I use both 3 rail O and HO):

The O 3rail (often called O27 or Lionel) does not have to be much more expensive than HO. There are medium quality train sets for less than $200. There are 4-5 different engines for less than $100; most non-sound-equipped locomotives cost less than $250. Cars go for $20-$40. You can build a fun 3 rail O layout on a 4x8 just as easily as an HO layout. The world of sound is easily available - bells and whistles are standard on the low end stuff; full sound systems are available for more $$. Or you can buy used equipment in good condition that with cleaning and lube works just as well as it did 50 years ago when it was made.

But it is really a totally different experience. HO is focused on very realistic modeling of real railroads. O27 is much more of a toy-like caricature. Models are not particularly to scale. The emphasis is on fun with operating toys. I particularly enjoy (and enjoyed as a 10-12 year old child) the animated accessories and operating cars. Lighted passenger cars in the dark were also a lot of fun. When I was 7 I often just pushed the Lionel trains (there weren't many other brands then like there are now) by hand. The equipment stands up well to abuse by kids handling, running, racing, and experimenting - much better than the medium-to-high end HO.

yours in having fun
Fred Wright

[Anonymous]

i stardted crist mas 94, 11 years ago, i was 4.
by the time ize 8 i had a full 50x3 layout, my parents deveced and i had to tareit down.
now im back, a 4x8 now.

[ericboone]

I started with a cheap Tyco set for Christmas at age seven and got my first Athearn Blue Box (a Chessie System GP35) a few months later for my birthday. I never broke any of them and still have them, although my interest shifted to steam, so they don't get run much.

[Anonymous]

Thank you all for your input. I am leaning towards the HO right now. I have the DVD on the Dream, Plan, Build series. At least the first one. I am awaiting the second one. Hopefully in the next 2-3 months I can start construction on a railroad. So far all the boys are excited about being involved.

Thanks again.

[Anonymous]

glad 2 help

[CP5415]

Darrick, HO scale is a good scale to start off again in.

I have a HO scale setup & my 4 year old daughter has not had ant problem handling anything I have nor have I had a problem with her handling anything.
For the most part, she likes to run trains. I feel sorry for the passengers as she's on the throttle then quickly off the throttle, but I'm sure they'll get over it [;)]

BTW, welcome aboard.

Gordon

Gordon

[Anonymous]

The older children should be able to work with HO and the youngest could be intertained withThomas and cheaper or second hand items. While 4x8 is great space ( most all of us has one in our past, my current layout is 4x6 ) it will be hard for short arms to reach very far into the layout. Except for trunarounds a layout with less depth might be better if you can solve the return loop situation. Check with the controller of spaces. My first train was a Lionel 027 when I was either four or five. It took two hands to carry the engine. It is boxed up in favor of more railroad in same space. Good luck and have fun with the children. Phil

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all of your help and support. I am going to go with HO scale. Now I just have to work out the space issue and start collecting the supplies to create my railroad. I will post back as construction begins and as it progresses.

Thanks again.

[gvdobler]

Kids have a lot more fun with trains of they are allowed to handle them. I have a Lionel set and an LGB G scale that I set up for the kids. They both can take the punishment of smaller/younger railfans.

I think too many times we tend to want to make things "nice" and then we aren't as willing to let the kids play trains. They generally are more interested in playing trains than modeling a railroad. If they develop an interest in modeling great, if they don't and move on, at least you will have fun with them while playing trains.