Old HO trains and DCC

[Anonymous]

I have a set of old HO trains from my grandfather (1940-1950) and then an engine from the 70's. I am slowly getting back into the hobby after a 30 year absence and need to buy a new power supply for the existing group of engines (12). Will this set of old stuff run on the the new DCC technology? I am assuming from the little I have read that it will, but I will need to install the decoder stuff in the old engines to have the benefits of DCC. Is this correct? Thanks. DRAE

[ARTHILL]

I was in the same place 9 months ago. I went with DC and run my old stuff. There are times I am sorry. Unless you really love the old engines and they are good brass, go DCC and get new engines. Installing decoders in old engines also is difficult if the motors are old. Check out the details, but new engines may be the best way.

[Anonymous]

You are right in that your older locomotives will need DCC decoders installed.

Here is the good news. Given the time and the patientce a DCC decoder can be wired into any model railroad locomotive.

However given the age and the notorous high current draw that motors of that vintage tend to make,It might be wise to consider remortoring these engines. Northwest shortline makes motors that can be fitted.

I can do decoder installation and remotoring but I am in the middle of a stalled move. So I have no workshop with whcih to conduct these operations.

James

[Eriediamond]

[#welcome] Yes drea, this is correct, but! It may be more trouble to install the electronics and decoders in these older locos and more costly then puchasing newer ones that are either DCC ready or DCC equiped.

[MisterBeasley]

I have my old trains from the 60's. I've at least put most of them on the tracks, but at first only a couple would run at all. They were mostly Athearns, some gear-drive, some belt-drive. I put decoders in 3 or 4 of them, after cleaning them up, lubricating them and isolating the motors from the frames. After a while, I realized that they just didn't run well or reliably, except for one gear-drive F7 that I am proud to run every day.

You should go out and get one new locomotive, just to see what today's technology does for you. If you look around, you can pick up a brand new engine for less than what it would cost you in parts alone to retrofit an old one, and it will look better besides.

So, give them a try. If they run pretty well, you can get a budget decoder for under $20. Since your old engines don't have ditch lights, mars lights or any other fancy stuff, a budget decoder will do everything you need anyway. Put the decoder in and run the engine for a while. Don't bother with headlights right away - it's easy enough to put them in later if you decide that it's going to work.

I hope you can find a couple or 3 that will run well enough. I'm sure proud of my old, noisy F7.

[cacole]

You're better off putting locomotives that old onto a display shelf to just admire for sentimental value and purchasing new engines that are DCC ready or DCC equipped. The detail is much better now than it was back then and the motors are much quieter.

We have several old Mantua cast metal steam engines that were given to our club, and despite cleaning and oiling none of them run well enough to justify the cost of a decoder, even though decoders are now down to $15 or less, depending on the brand. We don't feel that they're worth the cost of remotoring, either, considering their lack of detail and general overall condition. Some have side rods or valve gear missing, so we just put them on static display in the roundhouse and shop area.

[Anonymous]

Anyone can install decoders in old engines. Standards dedicated by the hobby make it quit simple to do all you need is a little back ground in wiring and soldering. I have just started to convert my older engines to DCC and found it very easy to do. I use Digitrax decoders just because easiest to get my hands on. There is alot of info on the web reguarding old loco decoder installations. Just Google it and see. I think the only obsticull you must be aware of is isolating the motor and making sure not to over power the decoder. Other trhan that it's a simple proccess.

[TwinZephyr]

Seems this is the age of disposable trains. Older locomotive is not easy to convert to DCC - toss it out and buy a new locomotive with DCC. Coupler breaks on RTR freight car - discard it and buy a new one. Unfortunately, with so many limited runs and discontinued products, it's not always so easy to buy a new train with the same road name, etc.

[Anonymous]

You do get some locos that are almost impossible to convert. Take Fleischmann's older locos, for example. I picked up a Br 212 (a smallish centre-cab diesel-hydraulic loco) earlier this year. The motor can't be isolated due to the design of the brush holders (it's a pancake drive). I've been waiting since March for a new motor backplate which should solve this, but no sign yet. It's a pity really as the loco is actually a very fine runner on DC. I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that buying a Piko Br.218 (a slightly larger loco) and fitting DCC to that might be a better idea...

[Soo Line fan]

There are some engines from the late 70s worth upgrading, provided they are in excellent condition. Atlas /Roco, Model Power Sharks, Athearn flywheel drive and Mantua Steam with power drive (enclosed gear box) are some I have re-powered. I am sure I overlooked a few other models. These were considered the cream of the crop when new. Other models never ran well when new and are not worth your time or money. If you have a model with sentimental value and want to run it, you could use a better chassis under it. Otherwise, find a nice display shelf and get some newer stuff.

If you tell us what specific models you have, we can give you a better ideal if they are worth upgrading.

Jim

[MisterBeasley]

I took the guts out of two old belt-drive Athearns, a GP-9 and an F-7, and now I run them as "honorary" dummy engines in consists.

[SpaceMouse]

Think about the TV's in the 60's and 70's. Now compare them to the modern HD flat screens. You can get cable converts and make them work. But they won't work as well as a modern set. And if you saw an old set at a garage sale, would you buy it?

It's about the same thing with new vs old engines.

[cjcrescent]

James,(Big Sky), has the best idea so far here. Telling someone to throw the older stuff out, and get new ones is very poor. Also telling them to just put them up and display them is also very poor...BECAUSE

#1. We don't know what equipment DRAE has.
#2. We don't know how much this equipment means to him.
#3. We don't know the condition of the equipment.
#4. Again we don't know what he has.

Just because the equip is old, doesn't mean it runs poorly or its an amp hog either. I have a BIG seven pole Pittman motor on a hobbytown PA-1chassis, (DC-95?). The chassis dates from 1959 at the latest. The loco, even though it has a motor that fills the entire rear end of a PA-1, draws only .25amp at peak throttle. Stall amperage is .75A. This loco has a DH123 in it. I believe it runs better than most of the current crop of models, steam or diesel on the market now. Its super smooth, can run from 8secs between ties, all the way up to a top scale speed of 75mph and no faster while it pulls nails out of the wall.

Telling him to not use something with blanket statements like, "its too hard", "it runs poorly", "detail is better today", "its not worth it", is IMHO, poor advice until you know exactly what he has.

[Anonymous]

I would say all depends. I have done a couple of Athearn bb's/Atlas yellow box's just because of the sentimental value, I bought these back in HS in the '70's. Installed Digitrax Chips, wired up F/R lights, but I think it will all come up to your skill level/determination. Running them against newer locos such as a basic Athearn RTR SD 60, no comparison, the SD will outshine it any day.

For me it was "Man vs Machine" I had to give it a shot. As funds are left over from scenery and stuff, new diesels are bought and they are being sent to "lighter duty" as switchers.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the replies - The current set is in a series of boxes and I will need to get them out and see what I have. Just to let you know what I don't know...what is the best way to determine what I have as far as model, make, etc? This may take me a few days, so if you can bear with me and maybe check back in a few days. Again, thanks. Mostly these are of sentimental value, but they all seemed to run fairly good on DC 30 years ago with the power supply was suspect and I was a teenager without much knownledge or concern. As long as it went fast I was happy at that point. Age of the whole set may also be helped from the track set up which is wood bed, individual rails, and miniature spikes to hold the rails onto the bed. Anyway, I will see what I can find out. Daniel

[jeffers_mz]

My son recently got a train set for his birthday, so I hauled out my 35 year old stored trains and dusted them off. Two of the old locos needed new traction tires, which cost me less than $5 at the hobby shop. One of them needed the brushes reknapped, which cost me a disassembly and a tiny piece of sandpaper. One of them, an old Mantua 4-6-2 Pacific needs cylinders, which I found on the net. I had to add weight to the old F7, and the S3 still needs some weight in it. I bought 25 pounds of number nine lead shot for $40, but ended up cutting up an old loco weight instead to get the F7 up to snuff. The S3 will probably get some bird shot.

I replaced the headlight in the F7 since it was burned out, and cut some new window glass for it. It's a Santa Fe in red and silver warbonnet colors, and had some scratches and dings showing raw plastic through the paint on the shell. I masked off all except the roof, the side vents, and the rear , hit it one pass with spray can silver, along with the dummy B unit I bought for it three decades ago, and it looks respectable enough for general service now.

On the track, he sounded like a coffee grinder, a noisy coffee grinder, amplified by the resonant plastic shell, and about three drops of 3 in 1 household oil in the gears and the end bearings for the motor quieted him down immeasurably. He was slipping his wheels just a bit climbing the 4.3% grade I have on the layout here, pulling three Model Power lighted 65 foot passenger cars I found dusting up on the hobby shop shelf, so I added one more ounceof lead weight, and now he glides up the hill quiet and smooth. For the price of the cars, $50, and the traction tires, $55 total, I have a servicable, lighted passenger train, all in Santa Fe livery.

More than that, I have an engine my dad gave me, a certified antique, and better yet, the satisfaction of resolving the problems of age myself, putting a crusty old grinder back in service, and from all appearances, there to stay for a long time to come.

You decide. I have new engines that perform well, and old engines that I made perform well, and they both give me a lot of satisfaction and running pleasure. It's a choice that largely depends on your observation, deduction and mechanical skills, but it's not impossible or even really difficult.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by twinzephyr

Seems this is the age of disposable trains.

Not at $20.00 per RTR car its not.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jeffers_mz

More than that, I have an engine my dad gave me, a certified antique, and better yet, the satisfaction of resolving the problems of age myself, putting a crusty old grinder back in service, and from all appearances, there to stay for a long time to come.

You decide. I have new engines that perform well, and old engines that I made perform well, and they both give me a lot of satisfaction and running pleasure.

I agree... My daughter just got a new set for Christmas. I've had more fun getting my old TYCO & Mantua engines running again than operating the shiny new Santa Fe. She knows that "Dad can fix anything", but I think she's amazed that these old engines from my childhood are zipping around her track.

I have had an absolute ball looking up coupler conversion information, watching eBay for engines to cannibalize for parts and working on these old noisy engines that I "should throw away".

[jeffers_mz]

I agree. Bringing these old guys back to life is almost like putting one over on "the man".

I found an exact duplicate of the AHM "F7" referred to above today and a not so local hobby store, for $13. Naturally I snapped it right up. I also found out it's not a F7, its a "C-Liner" with some sort of unusual cylinder heads. Sometimes he needs a nudge to get moving, sometimes not. When not, he runs the exact same speed as the one I fixed up last week. I'll lube him up, re-knap the brushes, and see if he can't be coaxed into a little A-B-A service.

Of course, not much point in running three locos to pull three passenger cars(except it looks kewl and the kids will eat it up).....the ordering guy at my hobby store is going to try and snare me some more lighted SF coaches and a diner...ah well, back to the chase...

[Anonymous]

There's a few tricks you can use on older locos - firstly, give the commutator a polish with some very fine glasspaper (I use a Peco track cleaning block but it's tricky to get it into some motors), this will help a lot. Next, oil the bearings and put a small amount of grease on the gears. The trick to getting a "pancake" drive to behave well is to enable it to spin very freely so oiling both motor bearings, the axle bearings, and putting a tiny amount of oil on the gearing will get it spinning freely. Hope this is of use!

[jeffers_mz]

Good stuff, I was about to ask why balky motors balk and you got me thinking about what I had found in the first loco, which was enough olive fuzz wound around the axles of the driven wheels to be certain that the loco had been run on olive carpet some time in the distant past.

The new one really surprised me last night in how difficult it was to spin the armature by hand, and your post got me thinking about why that might be. How much you want to bet I'll find long strands of colored fiber wrapped around the axles when I open the gearbox?

[Anonymous]

Old Engines! It started me thinking about "reviving" my 1951 Mantua Pacific. It gave
me many years of happy service, but has been sitting in the "breaker yard" for more
than 20 years. Is this old boy worth upgrading or should I just let it sit.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jnaughton

Old Engines! It started me thinking about "reviving" my 1951 Mantua Pacific. It gave
me many years of happy service, but has been sitting in the "breaker yard" for more
than 20 years. Is this old boy worth upgrading or should I just let it sit.

Depends on how much you like the way it looks. Compared to today's engines in might need to be remotored and regeared. DCC can be done for under $20, but if it doens't run as well as you like. But remotoring and regearing can be a project and cost a few dinero.