That Yellow Waxy Build-up (Turnout Problem--update)

[SpaceMouse]

I waxex my layout thsi weekend using the Karate Kid Wax-On Wax-Off technique as outlined by Bob cmrporducts. I used the cork roadbed, and didn't apply enough to see let alone fall over the sides. I probably ran too early, but I wanted to test the track and get on to a layout overhaul. Well my old-time 2-6-0 picked up a lot of wax on the wheels and wouldn't go, So I cleaned the wax and it runs fine, except that now it doesn't do the turnouts.

I cleaned the wheels.
The track worked fine before.

Below is a crude diagram. When the front truck gets to the upper break in the turnout, it rides over the straight retaining plastic.



Any ideas. I've run without problems for months. This now happens every time. And not just one turnout.

[howmus]

Chip, you have outlined the reason I don't use wax or any other compound that can leave a film on my tracks! I only use alcohol to clean my rails. I think the problem may be that somehow something is binding the front truck and causing the derailment. Could be anything from some of the wax to a small piece of lint or other dirt that has worked its way under the swivel area of the front truck. Do your railpoints open and close properly? Can you run other locos through without a problem? If you haven't try one of your diseasals. Any problem with cars derailing here. If other locos make the switch with no problem and you do not have a problem with other rolling stock, I would check out the loco carefully. Hope you solve the problem!

[SpaceMouse]

I haven't looked closely, but if they are the same size, I might switch the front wheels for metal ones. The plastic ones' seemed both to pick up more wax and be harder to clean. I was cleaning them with alcohol, but it was tough.

[SpaceMouse]

Recast.....bump...bump...bump...reel....bump...bump...bump...reel..bump...bump...bump...

[Anonymous]

Waxing a layout?? First I ever heard of it. I wouldn't ever do it anyway. Wax makes things slippery. I guess you found that out.

[SpaceMouse]

Gee, I was hoping for more than shouldnta done it.

[Anonymous]

Sorry man. It's all I can offer. Since I have no knowledge of the stuff, It's all I can say. I just figured slippery stuff and train tracks didn't go together.

[Don Gibson]

CHIP:

When you 'oiled' (wax is frozen oil) you exacerbated another problem: Pilot trucks picking a turnout - backward's yet.

1. most all pre-fab turnout's are NOT in NMRA spec. somewhere.

Easiest fix is a new, and better quality turnout, especially if it's limited to 1 engine and 1 turnout.

I replaced my turnout's with Shinohara -and better yet BK - & eliminated 99% all my tracking problem's, but knowing how you like to spend $$, it probably won't happen.

BK's allow NMRA positioning of guard rails, and which seem's to be where your problem is.

Tracking error is when wheel flanges are not following the track edge which I'm sure you know. Mine is not to reason why, but your's is to do or die.

TRY another turnout, and metal pilot wheels ........ and remove any contaminant's.

[andrechapelon]

You have my sincerest sympathy, Chip. As a teenager, I had a layout that was afflicted with ring around the collar and tattle-tale gray.

Andre

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

CHIP:

When you 'oiled' (wax is frozen oil) you exacerbated another problem: Pilot trucks picking a turnout - backward's yet.

1. most all pre-fab turnout's are NOT in NMRA spec. somewhere.

Easiest fix is a new, and better quality turnout, especially if it's limited to 1 engine and 1 turnout.

I replaced my turnout's with Shinohara -and better yet BK - & eliminated 99% all my tracking problem's, but knowing how you like to spend $$, it probably won't happen.

BK's allow NMRA positioning of guard rails, and which seem's to be where your problem is.

Tracking error is when wheel flanges are not following the track edge which I'm sure you know. Mine is not to reason why, but your's is to do or die.

TRY another turnout, and metal pilot wheels ........ and remove any contaminant's.

It is one engine and 2 turnouts. Unfortunately they are EZ track so a change of brand is out.

The wheels are smaller than 30" metal wheels, like maybe 24" I have no idea where to find such a critter. I have adjusted the tention on the front truch to no avail.

Unfortunately I only have 2 2-6-0's running on this track. I have 2 4-4-0's coming down the pike. I figure I have a 50-50 chance of them working.

[claycts]

Hi Chip, Merry Chrsitmas,
Is the wax you used CLEAR? If so, get a magnifyingg glass and look at the offending area, ON THE TRACK not the engine. From the symptoms it sounds like the LEADING truck jumps but the drivers track true, correct?
A HAND test is swipe a a truck from a car and push it with a pencile, NOT YOUR HAND you weigh to much and it will effect the test. The truck SHOULD jump the track in the same place as your engine, IF NOT look real good at the engine.
Got any fisihing weights? try some on the nose of the engine over the pilot truck, this will force it to track due to the extra weight.
My guess is:
75% wax at the rail
20% dirt on the pilot truck
5% and cold beer and rethink the problem.
I used FLITZ on the rails before I laid the track and am ELECTRIC TOOTHBRUSH (SNOOPY) that works in a circle not back and forth, does wonders for the wax build up problem. That is a old car trick.
Good luck
Take Care
George P.

[SpaceMouse]

IT is the lead truck from one engine

[claycts]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

IT is the lead truck from one engine

Is it fixed?

[SpaceMouse]

Nope, I futzed with it for a couple hours last night. I increased the tension to the track (haven't added weights yet.) Cleaned them up. I like the idea of metal wheels, but I don't have a clue where to find them. I don't even know the size. they are definately smaller than 30's. The same brand and model 2-6-0 works just fine.

[Anonymous]

How does the Shay go over all of it?

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by On30Shay

How does the Shay go over all of it?

I'll try it tonight. But I don't expect problems with it.

[claycts]

Chip it sounds like that loco had decided to test you resolve to make it work. Here is a DUMB IDEA, SWAP the pilots on the two 2-6-0 units. this will either prove or not that the pilot is bad.
I have a 2-8-4 brass that hates a #6 double slip dumps the pilot 95% of the time. The ONLY time it worked more than once was with 1/2oz of lead on the nose. I am going to try a stiffer spring on the pilot but the problem is that the tip of the pilot where the wheels are is ahead of the mount point so the lever action of the wheel negates the sprin tension. The weight overcame the fulcrum of the wheels.
All my 4 wheel piolts track fine, that is why I think the 2 wheel needs a real stiff spring to work.
Good luck, you will get it I am sure.

[lesterperry]

Check the back side of the wheels, it appears to me from your drawing that something is causing the wheel set to ride up over the guide. Check the guage on the offending wheel set. I assume you made sure there is NO wax on the guides on the switch. Get some alchohol and a soft tooth brush gently scrub the guides and frog.

[cmrproducts]

Chip and others

One of the first things I always do when putting any new equipment or for that matter older equipment is check the wheel gauge.

I have NEVER found any piece of rolling stock that has all of the wheels in gauge!

They usually too narrow! Now most of the time this will not cause a problem but just when you least expect it they will derail.

Now you are looking at the track work and can’t seem to get it to do it again and think you have the problem and the offending piece will run for weeks and then do it again.

Remember one of the most important rules for a ZERO maintenance layout is all wheels must be in gauge.

Now when setting the wheel gauge the flange must slip into the notches in the NMRA gauge freely. I have seen 99% of the people that use the gauge just force the gauge onto the wheel set and then say it is in gauge.

This is how I can run my 800 plus cars and have zero derailments!

And waxing the track (using metal polish) is not the cause of the derailment problem (unless you have left gobs wax on the rails). It has, most likely, reveled a problem that has been there all along and now that the track is really clean is now showing up!

CHIP! - If the engine continues to give grief, bring it up to my layout and we WILL find the problem!

BOB H – Clarion, PA

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cmrproducts



CHIP! - If the engine continues to give grief, bring it up to my layout and we WILL find the problem!

BOB H – Clarion, PA

I'll double check the guage. You having an OP Till You Drop soon? I've fitted my B&P 2000 with a sound card and dirtied it up a might.

[cmrproducts]

Sounds good!

Yes I have to get the Div 11 meeting out of the road (Jan 15, 2006) (Be sure and come on up for some OPs)

I will keep the Indiana Club informed as to when the next OPTUD is!

BOB H - Clarion, PA