DCC Equipped Locomotives

[kfleeman1]

Would any of you who have DCC controlled layouts buy new locomotives (Kato, Atlas stuff) that are pre DCC equipped with top of the line Digitrax decoders and quality wiring(separate LEDs to all lights for individual control etc.) or would you only stick to doing the DCC installation yourself. In other words, would any of you buy brand new DCC equipped locos with top of the line decoders and wiring? I hope you can understand what I'm asking.

[selector]

Depends. Are you skilled in electronics? How are you with a soldering gun? Would you like to learn? Then try your hand at installing them yourself. It isn't for the faint of heart, at least not the first time you open a $100 locomotive.

The factories do a first class job of the installation..remember, there is the speaker if you want sound. So, if you are willing to pay about $100 more for the DCC'd engine, you will be assured of a good runner that is fully warranted.

I have purchased locos of both types, all top quality..though not brass. I had another person install the decoders, and I am very happy with the results. As for the locos that came DCC, they have met all my expectations.

I'm not sure if that makes your choice any easier, but it comes down to your attitude, your experience, your desire to explore and learn, and your budget. Either way, if the decoder is a good one, and the speakers are intalled properly, you will be happy, I'm sure.

[jnichols]

I'm not sure scale you're asking about, and that does make a difference. I'm also assuming you're talking about picking up second hand locomotives off of ebay or another source of used locomotives. The truth is, anything in N or HO scale that's plug and play and already has a high quality decoder installed, is probably a safe buy assuming the locomotive is being sold with some sort of warranty. For non plug and play units, again make sure there is some sort of return policy on the locomotive in case you get it and things aren't as they should be... [;)]

Factory DCC equipped locomotives are a different story altogether in my mind. For example, Atlas and Bachmann both use an inexpensive Lenz decoder in their offerings. These decoders are not very good, and lack many of the features people who care about performance are looking for. My suggestion would be to buy the DCC ready versions of these locomotives, and then install the decoder of your choice.

Good luck!

[kfleeman1]

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear in my original post. I was in hurry.

I have been installing DCC decoders and wiring up ditch lights, marker lights, etc. in my HO scale locomotives for about a year now. Despite some questions about wire gauge and shrink tubing, I think I am pretty decent at this type of work.

What I am asking is would you buy new locos already DCC equipped, (top of the line Digitrax decoders) wired up, (separate LEDs for ditch lights, etc.), programmed, and ready to roll? Would it be worth the extra money to you to buy these quality locos or would you still do the DCC installations yourself?

The reason I ask this is that I am thinking of buying brand new locos (Kato, Atlas, and such) and doing DCC installations in them (the works as described above) and selling them on ebay. I am wanting to make sure that there are people who would want to buy these locos before I go and buy all the extra supplies and tools that I will need to do this. I have the basic tools but there is a lot I will need to regular DCC installation.

Any comments or suggestions are appreciated.[8D]

[Anonymous]

I actually enjoy installing decoders myself, but I did just buy a Bachmann Spectrum gas machanical siderod locomotive that is DCC equipped.. Dam, you think that has enough names? I think they should have added a few more.

[selector]

Well, as I stated previously, I have had decoders installed...in three locos. I am pleased with the results of two of the three. On the other hand, the ones I purchased outright with DCC and Sound (QSI in three cases), are all superior responders. The sound is crisp and clean. The ones that I had done are less so, but only somewhat.

So, if you can do really good installs, then go for it. Some of the decoder retailers that advertise in MR offer the service, so there is competition. Start small, and see how you do over the next 12 months. You can always order more material and supplies, but it is harder to dispose of it later.

[Anonymous]

ive tried and tried to sucessufully install a few decoders and *poof* bye bye decoder if u know what i mean, so if there was a few with a decent price range id buy them.

[Anonymous]

Are you using a volt/ohm meter to make dam SURE you have the wheels and frame isolated from the motor brushes? It's not enough just to assume. More likely than not, that was your problem.

QUOTE: Originally posted by nharrison21

ive tried and tried to sucessufully install a few decoders and *poof* bye bye decoder if u know what i mean, so if there was a few with a decent price range id buy them.

[jsoderq]

I would never buy installations from an amateur (no offense) because there is no recourse in case of problems, i.e. the better business bureau will not interceed nor will Kalmbach, or probably even ebay. Some installations can be problematical which explains why places like Tony's offer the services they do. Now, can you do it - of course. Will you sell some units - yes. Will you make any money ? Yes, until you run into a problem, and then depending on the problem it will probably all blow up in your face.

[MisterBeasley]

If I wanted a fully-equipped locomotive, I think I'd watch for a good price and buy it from the factory. For a basic "fleet" locomotive without sound, ditch lights, etc., I'd find a rock-bottom model and install my own decoder.

No offense meant, of course, but somehow I don't think you'll turn much of a profit doing that kind of installation. If you have to buy the locomotive and the components, and then charge a reasonable amount for your time, you're going to have to charge just about as much as I'd pay for a factory-equipped model. What's more, I would have to deal with the eBay experience, which can be fun, but I don't always get what I want.

I think you would be better off applying your skills to doing custom work for people who already have locomotives, and want to add features to them. My LHS guy always has someone's engine opened up on his workbench, and I love to watch him running them around the in-store layout to check out his work. Good luck.

[tstage]

kfleeman1,

To go along with Crandell, why don't you start and by selling just one on eBay and see how you do. In addition to that, do the following:

1. Be honest - Put in the description how many decoder/LED locomotive conversions you have done previoiusly.
2. Be helpful - Include "quality", upclose, in-focus pictures of your "quality wiring" and LED installs. IMPORTANT! Pictures will go a LONG way to selling your work. I WON'Tt buy unless I can see a "reasonable" picture of the item. Blurry pics turn most people off from buying - no matter how good the item might be. (I know that is true of me.)
3. Be reasonable - Make a competitive starting bid for both the locomotive and the work you did on it. Know what your "competition" is charging, as well as what your time is worth. (This will probably be the hardest thing for you to judge the market about.)
4. Be bold but be patient - Test the waters and see what happens.

kfleeman1, for your first eBay selling, you might want to pick a locomotive you don't mind getting stuck with - just in case it doesn't sell. Again, let me re-emphasize the importance of good, non-blurry closeup pics of your work in helping to sell your stuff better.

The old adage that " a picture is worth a 1000 words" definitely applies in your case here. Let me also add that I speak entirely from a buyers standpoint, not a sellers. I've never sold anything on eBay.

Hope that helps...

Tom

[ereimer]

unless you get yourself set up as a dealer so you get reduced pricing on locos and decoders it's unlikely you'll make much of a profit . becoming a dealer may involve more money than you're willing to put into this , i'd guess a minimum first order required to become a dealer would be at least $10K . in order to do enough business to support an order of that size you'd have to advertise in magazines , maybe have a web site , etc. all extra expenses .

it's an interesting idea , and if you're willing to do it for a small profit it will probably work , but don't expect to get rich overnight . old issues of model railroad magazines are full of ads from one man businesses that no longer exist . on the other hand there are some that have grown to be decent sized companies that continue to make money year after year and employ many other people as well . that's the beauty of the american dream [:)]

[tstage]

kfleeman1,

Dave just jogged my mind about something that needs some clarification. When you mentioned putting in LEDs, were you referring to just replacing the pre-existing incondescent bulbs on headlights and such? Or, are you talking about installing running and ditch lights to models - say, diesel locomotives - that don't come with them but were on the original prototype? That makes a big difference. My previous comments were based on the latter...

Tom

[kfleeman1]

I am talking about installing running ditch lights to locomotives and making the LED or LEDs that power the ditch lights separate (on a different decoder function) from the headlight and obviously the rear light.

Obviously I am not trying to get rich quick or quit my job to do this, just a little something on the side to make a few bucks. Just wondering what people would think about this if I did show close up good pictures of the work and all the functions it had. By quality work I mean neat, clean, and solid with all wire joints insulated with shrink tubing, etc. Mainly just wondering if you would buy the loco and pay the extra few bucks for the already done work or if you would still prefer to do it yourself.

[nfmisso]

kfleeman1;

You will not make any money doing this, and it will absorb a great deal of time.

Tony's and others offer this service already. They have access to the models, decoders, and other parts at wholesale. They have the equipment to build and test, and they provide warranties.

You may be able to start locally, a tie in with your LHS or a local club for example, then expand. Expect it to take several years to become established.

[kfleeman1]

Keep in mind I will be selling on ebay only.

Any more comments are appreciated.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nfmisso

kfleeman1;

You will not make any money doing this, and it will absorb a great deal of time.

Tony's and others offer this service already. They have access to the models, decoders, and other parts at wholesale. They have the equipment to build and test, and they provide warranties.

You may be able to start locally, a tie in with your LHS or a local club for example, then expand. Expect it to take several years to become established.

I have to agree with Nigel. You are also competing with BLI and Bachmannn on the sound stuff. I doubt that an individual could buy the parts to do a sound install in a loco for the price of their completed loco. This doesn't count your time.

My main concern would be dealing with customer problems after the purchase. Example: Bob buys a loco from you and somehow scrambles the programming that you did correctly. He blames you (incorrectly). Do you help him??? How much time do you spend before you charge etc?. This kind of stuff will drive you nuts.....DCC programming is complicated enough with different systems out there that I would be leery of starting a business like this.

If you do decide to do this, get hooked up with a retail outfit that can supply you the parts at a discount or you will have a hard time turning a profit. I'm talking parts, not time.

[jfugate]

I have specific decoders I like to use, and in order to program them I can quickly copy CV settings I like and load them in a few seconds with DecoderPro.

If I buy an already-decoder-equipped loco, then it's pot luck as to what the decoder features and settings may be.

Plus most modern locos have decoder plug sockets in them so installing a decoder takes only a few moments. Sound decoders take longer because I also have to get out the soldering iron and find a spot for the speaker, but even then it's only a single evening's work and I have *exactly* the install I want.

[rrgrassi]

I say, why not? If you have the time and the means to do it, give it a shot. Do not limit yourself to just eBay. Do like the others have said, hook up with a LHS. Richmond Controls which sells LED's for the models, also has a booth at the local train shows. They are located in Richmond, Texas.

You will need to provide a warranty also, so that if a problem comes up, it can be dealt with. Also, remember no matter how hard you try, you will not please everyone. Also find out what the competition is doing the service for, and also offer custom work.

You will have to show people why you are better than the competiton. People also tend to be willing to spend more money for quality of the final product and quality of the service.

You will never know unless you try.

Just my $.02

[Anonymous]

I could be interested in a locomotive in the future in a road name I would want. I have a LHS about 40 miles away that offers the service also. I just do not know if you could get your time compensated properly though. My LHS charges $25/hour to do the work! So "IF" you are really talented, then you could probably make some side money. You would have to evaluate it carefully.