1950"s Passenger cars? HELP

[Anonymous]

I am modeling the 50"s. Small Layout HO 21 and 18 inch radius curves.

What is the smallet passenger cars in Service then that I can use on the tight curves that won't look too bad. Is this the so called '60 foot cars?? Did the New York Central have them back then? Do you know who makes them? Would like interiors and lighting. willing to pay the money!

Thanks for your help,

DON

[Anonymous]

Other than some head-end type cars (baggage and so forth), I don't believe there were real prototypes for the 60' cars of that era. Sure there are some pre-1900 "shorty" cars like you see in 'old west' movies and layouts, but that's not what you mean I think (and typically those were well _under_ 60').

The 60' cars available in heavyweight and streamline (i.e. 1920's-50's) style were strictly non-prototypical "shorty" cars to give the feel of a passenger car without the full 80' length. They were, as you seem to have figured out, made specifically to accommodate those with tigher-radius curves.

Having said all that, I wouldn't let the lack of a prototype get in your way. True 80' cars on your curves would look a bit silly and might not even stay on the track. 60' ers are a much better option. I used to have them myself on earlier layouts with smaller curves - they've since mostly been passed on to nephews and younger friends.

As to sources, i'm not sure if anyone is making them currently. You might have to look for old stock, go to ebay and seek other such sources of non-new-production items. Your LHS might have some old dusty boxes with them too, you'd probably have to ask.

I believe (don't take this as scripture) that athearn, rivarossi, walthers and IHC have made them at times in the past.

[edo1039]

Check out this link lots of info for NYC
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc.html

[emdgp92]

Athearn still makes various "shorty" passenger cars, both heavyweight and streamlined. They'll work on both 21" and 18" curves. I ran them for years on my 4x8 layout with 18" curves with good results :)

[rolleiman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by emdgp92

Athearn still makes various "shorty" passenger cars, both heavyweight and streamlined. They'll work on both 21" and 18" curves. I ran them for years on my 4x8 layout with 18" curves with good results :)

Shorty?? Athearn?? I knew MDC did but never knew Athearn did (other than the RPO).. Did I miss something or am I misunderstanding what a Shorty passenger car is? [%-)]

Jeff

[whitman500]

Con-cor makes a number of 72' passenger cars that might be a decent compromise between 60' and 85'.

[orsonroy]

The 1950s was the transition period for passenger equipment as well as motive power and freight cars. Throughout the decade, you could still find heavyweight equipment running from the turn of the century, including wood cars, but they were increasingly relegated to branchline service, smaller roads, and MOW service as the decade progressed.

The NYC fielded a LOT of shorter cars. Their mainstay full baggage was a heavyweight 60-footer, slightly similar to the Trainline car. They still had a few wood coaches and combines operating on the branched notrh of Buffalo.

There were many other roads with similar older equipment. The Nickel Plate still rostered 60 foot wood baggage cars, coaches and combine/smokers. The CB&Q still ran wood combines in Illinois. The Southern and N&W both still ran wood baggage, combines and coaches. The Soo Line, Rock Island and Milwaukee had large fleets of short or wood cars running, and the C&NW had a HUGE roster of 60 foot commuter cars. And just about every shortline with ANY passenger service made due with short cars. Examples include the Ma & Pa, EBT, C&IM, M&StL, and dozens of others.

Unfortunately, shorty streamlined cars really didn't exist. With the exception of a few full baggage cars, all streamlined cars were at LEAST 72 feet long, witht he vast majority being around 80 feet. But just because we modelers "think" that all 1950s passenger trains were flash streamlined trains in fancy colors, pulled by E8s, doesn't make it true. The vast majority of passenger-car train miles was still made up of heavyweight cars, and continued to be that way until the early 1960s.

So, so long as you're willing to run a commuter train or branchline puddle jumper, you can accurately represent a 1950s passenger train with what's out there in model form now. Probably your best bet are the Walthers/Rivarossi Trainline 60 foot cars. The full baggage, combine and coach are all quite accurate, mostly for the C&NW. Athearn's old heavyweight cars make good stand-ins (and with work., completely accurate) models of several cars, especially their coach, full baggage, RPO/baggage, and diner (which you shouldn't need for secondary service). And don't overlook the old ROundhouse line of Overland cars (NOT the completely bogus Overton shorties!); cars very similar to these "old timers" were still running on most grainger roads.

[Anonymous]

Wow, great info. Thanks very much, it's new for me as well as, I suspect, our OP. Tags onto one of my issues in modeling the PRR of that era... Most of the interesting and/or useful prototype anomalies/exceptions to the rule/little-known facts don't apply. If I didn't have so danged much rolling stock I might switch... Zoiks.

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rolleiman
Shorty?? Athearn?? I knew MDC did but never knew Athearn did (other than the RPO).. Did I miss something or am I misunderstanding what a Shorty passenger car is?

Possibly. In model railroad lingo “shorty” is sort of derogatory. It means the car is shorter than the prototype should be. That is, the real car is 85 feet long but the manufacturer version is much shorter like 60 feet. All Athearn passenger cars except the RPO are “shorties”. The RPO is the correct length for the prototype.

[nbrodar]

Athearn's cars are 72', like the Con-Cor ones. I've had no problems with the Athearn BB cars on 18" curves. As with anything, they look better on 22" and larger curves.

Nick

[jecorbett]

My feeling is that if you have a small layout, shorty passenger cars are just another case of selective compression which we all have to resort to on occasions, regardless of the of the size of our layouts. None of us has the space to model everything in scale all the time.

[csmith9474]

Whatever works best for you is the name of the game in my opinion. Personally I use close coupling with working diaphrams on scale length cars, but I also don't have a layout to operate them on. I am modeling my cars more for display than operation, although they operate very well on anything over 24" (HO). In reality with our situation I should probably be modeling with Athearn shorties.

[Anonymous]

what about Harriman cars, weren't they 60'ers, didn't NYC use them? I think Athearn made some at one point.

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by patmcg

what about Harriman cars, weren't they 60'ers,

Some were, like baggage cars, RPOs and a few day coaches. Most HArriman cars were between 72' and 76'.

QUOTE:
didn't NYC use them?

Nope; the NYC wasn't a Harriman road. The roads that were used them (UP, SP, T&NO, IC, Alton), as well as a few roads which copied the idea (Rock Island).

QUOTE:
I think Athearn made some at one point.

Nope. The only mass market Harriman cars were made by Roundhouse and Model Power, neither of whom did a very good job. Athearn does have a heavyweight coach with a turtleback roof, but it's definitely NOT a Harriman car.

[Anonymous]

I hate to be a pain (not really) but it has to be said. 18 and 21 inch radius curves will handle just about any N scale equipment.

I don't understand why someone that wants to run modern freight or passenger cars would choose to run HO if they only have limited space. Sure the larger scale cars can be better detailed but how realistic does it look when they are hanging 10 scale feet off the track in a curve?

I don't want to start anything but this is really something that should be addressed in planning isn't it?

[csmith9474]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bukwrm

I hate to be a pain (not really) but it has to be said. 18 and 21 inch radius curves will handle just about any N scale equipment.

I don't understand why someone that wants to run modern freight or passenger cars would choose to run HO if they only have limited space. Sure the larger scale cars can be better detailed but how realistic does it look when they are hanging 10 scale feet off the track in a curve?

I don't want to start anything but this is really something that should be addressed in planning isn't it?

Did you have to open that...well....can of worms????

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy

QUOTE: Originally posted by patmcg

what about Harriman cars, weren't they 60'ers,

Some were, like baggage cars, RPOs and a few day coaches. Most HArriman cars were between 72' and 76'.

QUOTE:
didn't NYC use them?

Nope; the NYC wasn't a Harriman road. The roads that were used them (UP, SP, T&NO, IC, Alton), as well as a few roads which copied the idea (Rock Island).

QUOTE:
I think Athearn made some at one point.

Nope. The only mass market Harriman cars were made by Roundhouse and Model Power, neither of whom did a very good job. Athearn does have a heavyweight coach with a turtleback roof, but it's definitely NOT a Harriman car.

and I just found a full set of Roundhouse NYC cars for $8.00 each. I'm not a rivet counter and it doesn't bother me that NYC never ran Harrimans but I don't want them if they're crappy cars. Are they that bad?

thanks
pat

[scubaterry]

I read somewhere that Riv is going to re issue the 60 ft pass cars soon. I bought a NYC set on the last run and wish now I had bought several more. I have a farily small layout so I like the 60ft cars.
Terry

[BRVRR]

I use the Athearn 72' cars on the BRVRR. They are lighted but no interiors. I covered the windows with translucent paper to hide the lack of interior details. I'm in the process of converting several ATSF streamlined cars into NYC livery. Going to be a bigger job than I though because the skirts have to come off and undercarriage details are going to be a pain.
They operate okay on the 20" and 22 1/2" mainlines on the BRVRR and will even back though the reverse loop which has some 18" curves in it.
Modern 80' cars work too, but look a little strange on the tight radii. You do what you can.

[wjstix]

I don't know if it's because of Amtrak Superliners all being the same lenght or what, but apparently most people aren't aware that in the heavyweight (and streamliner) eras, many cars were NOT 80' long !! Most Baggage, RPO, Coach, and Combine cars were less than 80' length.

Athearn's RPO, Baggage, and Coach cars are all "full size" models of prototypes (Santa Fe) cars that really were 67-72' long. Only the heavyweight Pullman, Diner and Obs. are "shorties". Although they're based on ATSF prototypes, the NYC had cars of the same general appearance. However Athearn cars don't come with interiors.

Walthers 60' Baggage, RPO, Coach, and Combine are all accurate models of 60' cars owned by the Chicago and NorthWestern. The "Utility Coach" and "Utility Combine" were apparently unique to the CNW, but many roads had RPO and Baggage cars of similar size and overall appearance. These cars have interiors.

Rivarossi and IHC makes heavyweight Baggage, RPO, Coach and Combines that are less than 80' long. BTW their 80' cars will work on 22" curves with the truck-mounted couplers, and might work down to 18" curves, but shorter cars would look better. However, they (like the Walthers cars) come with interiors.

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by patmcg
and I just found a full set of Roundhouse NYC cars for $8.00 each. I'm not a rivet counter and it doesn't bother me that NYC never ran Harrimans but I don't want them if they're crappy cars. Are they that bad?

If you don't care what they look like, go ahead and buy them and enjoy. But if you want to be a NYC modeler, stick with Trainline 60-footers or Athearn heavyweights. At least they'll kinda look like NYC cars.

As to how they run, beats me. I've only ever bought three, to use as a kitbash for a full length Harriman RPO. Since I changed out the trucks for Central Valley, they ran great.

[dehusman]

What people are calling "shorties" can be prototypical cars since they are the right length for commuter train cars. The Athearn "standard" coaches are correct (except for windows) for the Reading's coaches, RPO's and baggage cars. The PRR had hundreds of P54 commuter coaches (54 ft vestibule bulkhead to vestibule bulkhead). They rebuilt some into the famous (infamous) MP54 electric commuter cars.

So you can easily model a commuter or day coach train with Athearn equipment. As suggested you might mant to change to 4 wheel trucks. Bethlehem Car Works sells some plastic truck kits that are appropriate.

Dave H.