"Route Control"???

[Green Bay Paddlers]

The recent MR does a great job of charting out the different characteristics of various DCC systems. One field in the chart is labeled "route control." However, I can't seem to find the section of the article that discusses this. Can anyone explain what "route control" is? Is that the ability to control turnouts via DCC on your layout?

[TBat55]

The "Hare" (companion to the "Tortoise" switch machines by Circuitron) is also described in MR. The Hare advertises route control as a feature, but I have no direct experience with them. Since Circuitron offers signals and other electronics it is worth investigating. I wonder if a computer is involved or if the control logic is all distributed via DCC and Hares..

[tstage]

I had the VERY same question that you had, Jeff. That's what bugged me about the article. It was a good, general report about DCC but left items unaddressed. A list of term definitions for their comparison chart would have been very helpful. Consumer Report usually does a nice job of that on their comparison charts and explains what each term means. (We're not all at the same level.)

I would have also enjoyed a couple of brief paragraphs on each of the systems that mentioned things unique to each one of them. Does "route control" refer to the ability to hook up a computer to a RG-232 port to run your turnouts or signalling system? It wasn't very clear to me either...[:(]

Tom

[ClinchValleySD40]

If you use stationary decoders to power a bunch of switches, it's real simple to set up macros to line each route.

[Anonymous]

It's funny no one has even attempted to answer your question, so I will try. I'm no expert with DCC, but do have some experience, as I am using DCC to control my layout. Yes, route control (also called map routing) is the ability to control your layout with computer programming. It may be accomplished in other ways for DC, but since you asked about DCC, we'll stick to that. Map routing includes the ability to control turnouts, signals and other items, (such as reversing units) through computer programs. Basically, in an ideal world of map routing, one would be able to just sit back and watch trains run a pre programmed route. Somewhat boring to some, but it does have it's advantages. And it's kinda cool, too. I hope my ameature explanation is enough.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Green Bay Paddlers

The recent MR does a great job of charting out the different characteristics of various DCC systems. One field in the chart is labeled "route control." However, I can't seem to find the section of the article that discusses this. Can anyone explain what "route control" is? Is that the ability to control turnouts via DCC on your layout?

[tstage]

QUOTE: Originally posted by On30Shay
Yes, route control (also called map routing) is the ability to control your layout with computer programming....Map routing includes the ability to control turnouts, signals and other items, (such as reversing units) through computer programs.

Thanks, On30Shay! [:)] That clears things up - at least for me. Maybe MR should of had you contribute to the article. Then we wouldn't have needed the clarification in the first place.

Tom

[Anonymous]

you throw many turnouts, or any stationary decoder equiped devices, with one command

don't need a computer, you initiate the macro from your throttle "macro" button (NCE, anyway), you program what you want the macro to do through your DCC system

a route may be ....... aligning a bunch of turnouts to get an engine through a yard and into the engine house, etc

Jim

[aluesch]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Green Bay Paddlers

The recent MR does a great job of charting out the different characteristics of various DCC systems. One field in the chart is labeled "route control." However, I can't seem to find the section of the article that discusses this. Can anyone explain what "route control" is? Is that the ability to control turnouts via DCC on your layout?

A simple route control involves switches only. A complete route control tries to mimic a real world scenario, as if an engineer would sit in each of your locomotives with CTC setting the switches and sending speed limits or stop commands via signals which your engineer would obey.

Both kinds of route control are used in ZIMO systems for decades, mostly in conjunction with a computer and STP software. ZIMO#8217;s route control goes beyond simple switch ladders or macros, as some call it and is therefore ideal for automation. This can of course involve things like hidden stations or a complete layout. The computer sets routes on its own, with previous checks to ensure a route is free (unoccupied) and no switch, signal etc. is reserved or locked by another route, then sets all switches, signals to their appropriate settings and finally issues speed limits to applicable sections of track. This is called #8220;signal controlled speed influence#8221; in ZIMO language, and is capable of issuing up to 5 different speed limits to each section, including stop and #8220;power off#8221;. The speed of each loco (or consist) for each speed limit may be individually different and is set in 5 decoder CV#8217;s.
This does not lock anyone out of manual train control. Any combination between manual, semi-automatic or full automation may be applied simultaneously. By hitting a #8220;MAN#8221; key on a ZIMO cab, the operator can take any locomotive out of automatic operation, at any time, without consulting the PC first! In essence, the loco address you use the #8220;MAN#8221; key on disregards any speed and stop signals on the track (coming from the PC or command station) and does only what you tell it to do with your cab, which allows you to run over red lights etc. This also works for consists of course.

Another way of route control ZIMO employs is called #8220;Automated Operating Sequences#8221; and works without a PC, as follows: the command station records all cab inputs (speed, acceleration, deceleration, direction, lights and so on) during a sample run and #8220;replays#8221; them later on command, either one time or endless. This makes it possible to have any part of a layout automated without a PC while the rest of the layout is still controlled strictly with the cab. Such sequences can include sound, automated couple/uncouple or any other loco function. Stop-over times in stations for example are also included and recorded in real time.

The latest ZIMO route feature is called #8220;Automated Route Sequences#8221; and combines the ZIMO #8220;signal control speed influence#8221; feature with the NMRA #8220;bidirectional communication#8221;. This again is meant for route control without a PC. Basically, the loco decoder sends #8220;position codes#8221; back to the command station via bidirectional communication and in return the command station selects the appropriate route for a given train based on routing codes you program into the command station. This way you can program specific routes for individual or group of trains (rather than just locomotive addresses), which up to this point required a PC with appropriate software.
We had a small layout at the Cincinnati show that demonstrated this kind of operation, already together with functional NMRA bidirectional communication!

Regards,
Art
Zimo Agency of North America
http://www.mrsonline.net/

[aluesch]

QUOTE: Originally posted by aluesch

QUOTE: Originally posted by Green Bay Paddlers

The recent MR does a great job of charting out the different characteristics of various DCC systems. One field in the chart is labeled "route control." However, I can't seem to find the section of the article that discusses this. Can anyone explain what "route control" is? Is that the ability to control turnouts via DCC on your layout?

The latest ZIMO route feature is called #8220;Automated Route Sequences#8221; and combines the ZIMO #8220;signal control speed influence#8221; feature with the NMRA #8220;bidirectional communication#8221;. This again is meant for route control without a PC. Basically, the loco decoder sends #8220;position codes#8221;

Regards,
Art
Zimo Agency of North America
http://www.mrsonline.net/

Does anyone know where all does funny numbers came from after hitting the "Post New Reply" key?

Regards,
Art
Zimo Agency of North America
http://www.mrsonline.net/

[tstage]

Art,

Since you are on the line, I have a question for you. Why is the Zimo DCC system substantually more expensive than all the other DCC systems? The two mentioned in the MR article were ~$950 and ~$1,250, respectively.

To put it another way: What is the extra few hundred dollars getting me that the other DCC systems don't have? Or, why should I spend the money on a "Lexus" when a "Camry" will do just fine? Thanks!

Tom

[tstage]

I think Al left the building...

[Stevert]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Green Bay Paddlers

The recent MR does a great job of charting out the different characteristics of various DCC systems. One field in the chart is labeled "route control." However, I can't seem to find the section of the article that discusses this. Can anyone explain what "route control" is? Is that the ability to control turnouts via DCC on your layout?

I started to read through this thread, but got bogged down in all the non-answers and partial answers so I don't know if anyone ever said what route control is, or not. Just in case they haven't, here it is:

Route control is basically using a single command to set the alignment of one or more turnouts as necessary to get your train to where you want it to go.

Depending on which DCC equipment you use, and whether you use layout control software, that "single command" may be implemented in the DCC command station, your stationary decoders, an accessory device such as Team Digital's SRC8, or the computer software.

Different manufacturers use different terminology to describe the various route features and implementations they support, so it may take some reading up to compare one against the other.

HTH,
Steve

[aluesch]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

Art,

Since you are on the line, I have a question for you. Why is the Zimo DCC system substantually more expensive than all the other DCC systems? The two mentioned in the MR article were ~$950 and ~$1,250, respectively.

To put it another way: What is the extra few hundred dollars getting me that the other DCC systems don't have? Or, why should I spend the money on a "Lexus" when a "Camry" will do just fine? Thanks!

Tom

Tom.

If you read through my previous post, you#8217;ve seen a number of features no one else offers. Further if you study the ZIMO literature including (maybe especially the manuals) you#8217;ll find many things that set ZIMO apart, starting with seemingly little but important things like digital volt and amp meters for each track output, fully stabilized track voltage, fastest CAN bus (communications bus) all the way to user updatable command stations, cabs and decoders via Internet, no charge, without lifting a cover or removing a decoder.
Take #8220;signal controlled speed influence#8221; I mentioned in the previous post. When compared to other methods of stopping trains in front of a red signal, like brake generators, DC and asymmetrical signal stop, ZIMO offers the most advantages:
- full control of all loco functions in stop or limited speed sections
- speed limits can be individually overridden with the #8220;MAN#8221; key at the cab
- 5 speed limits for brake or low speed sections, including stop and
selectively turns power off in blocks (for hidden stations to save power
and extend bulb life)
- special ZIMO decoder CV#8217;s for individual speed limit settings and
additional momentum when operating under signal controlled speed
influence.
- only one rail needs to be gapped for blocks, no short circuits when
bridged by wheel sets.
- ZIMO#8217;s #8220;loco number recognition#8221; is integrated with signal controlled
speed influence and can easily be used for train specific route control,
location dependent function control.

Whether you want the extra features the #8220;Lexus#8221; offers is of course up to you. However, I#8217;ve met many people in this hobby that first said the #8220;Camry#8221; is all they need, until they realized the opportunities and fun such features have to offer and then spent more Dollars later #8230;.

I hope these posts are not being interpreted as a put-down of other DCC systems. I merely tried to answer the question of what is understood by the term #8220;Routing#8221;. Since this is one of ZIMO#8217;s specialties and the term routing is used different by DCC manufacturers depending on what the systems can do, I thought it is in everyone#8217;s interest to show how far routing can be taken today.

Regards,
Art
Zimo Agency of North America
http://www.mrsonline.net/

[tstage]

Art,

Thanks. No, I didn't take your posts as a put down to other systems. This is the sort of thing that I wi***he MR "DCC Buyers Guide" article would have elaborated a little more on. Thanks again.

Tom

BTW, Art - I think you have a macro linked/associated to your apostrophe or something. (It's not consistent though) Anyhow, I think that's why you are getting all those numbers scattered about your post.

[pomilian]

Route control is the ability to throw one or more turnouts from your cab.
I'm using routes with my Prodigy Advance and Team Digital SMD8 stationary decoder. The decoder can control up to eight turnouts (more if some are wired in parallel). All programming is via CV's from the cab. Operation is: Press Route button; Press route number; Press 1 or 2 for closed or thrown turnout; Press Enter.

Paul O

[aluesch]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

Art,

This is the sort of thing that I wi***he MR "DCC Buyers Guide" article would have elaborated a little more on. Thanks again.

Tom

Thanks Tom.

I feel the same way about DCC articles. They seem to lack in-depth information and usually only cover features as far as they are compatible between systems. Otherwise, there should have been an article a long time ago in magazines like the MR dealing specifically with the items we're discussing, especially considering that ZIMO's route control in the form of "signal controlled speed influence" is around since 1980 and ZIMO's loco number identification and location" since 1989!

Regards,
Art
Zimo Agency of North America
http://www.mrsonline.net/

[SteelMonsters]

The definition of route control in terms of controlling turnouts is: A system that allows for one or more turnouts to be controlled such that a route is formed between two points.

The application where route control becomes very useful is complex track segments. In high volume traffic situations it becomes critical that a large yard has many ways trains can enter, exit and otherwise move simultaneously. If you have 20+ turnouts in a complex throat and use a toggle or buttons for each then you end up with a very messy and hard operation. To line up a route in such a situation you must look at each turnout between two points and determine its needed position and switch it correctly. This process can be a real pain in operation where many routes are needed quickly to move traffic.

Route control helps because it does all the switching automatically and simultaneously. The only input is to tell the system which route you want. The interface of route control varies greatly.

Diode matrix route control is one of the first forms. There are routes formed with diodes. The diode’s role is to give power to the switch motors in such a way to line up the route. There are problems with the system that have to be overcome in designing the circuit. It’s easy to use once designed, but it’s a stumble block to get it to work in various setups such as with the tortoise.

DCC systems usually operate route control through stationary decoders. The cabs that are used to operate the trains can also operate the decoders. If route control is supported then you can designate routes. When you select a route from the cab then the command station will send a signal to the stationary decoders to tell them what position they need to be in. The turnouts align accordingly. The problem is the cost of the stationary decoders is very high and operation using the cab to get routes is clumsy and inefficient.

Discrete logic gates or relays can be used. Logic gates include TTL and CMOS binary logic from and, or, not, nand, nor, xor, and so on. The signal can usually be used with an op amp or with a CMOS buffer for tortoises. If you don’t understand Boolean logic, this is probably not the way for you. Relays can be easy with a good knowledge of electronics, but it uses complex wiring. These methods are hard to understand and require a large amount of thought.

Last and of course my personal favorite is C/MRI. This system is very powerful when it comes to simplicity and flexibility. It’s a simple computer controlled system that can do virtually anything. Model railroader did a 4 part series on it starting January 2004. There was a in depth on the system when it came out in 1985 with a I think 16 part series.
The wiring is very simple a 4-wire cable connects the computer to a distributed node network. It either can be done with two outputs and a couple of resistors. Tortoises can also be operated with a special card called SMC12. It controls 12 turnouts with 1 output per turnout. SMC12 uses 6 identical circuits that can be cut off and distributed close to the turnouts where needed.
You will have to do the programming, but the hard work has been done for you making it easy. It uses very basic commands, mostly the if then or if then else statements. It’s just as easy as writing: IF John comes over THEN we will play trains. Another example is: IF John comes over THEN we will play trains ELSE I will shop for a new locomotive.
The ~580 page user manual goes through the system in great readable detail and is explained in such a way that will allow anyone to understand, build, test, program, and do basic applications with the system. There is a 500+ page application manual that will be coming out soon that goes into great detail on applications from turnout control to CTC and much more. The system excels at signaling and CTC in terms of ease of wiring and overall simplicity.
The cost is between $1 and $2.5 per Input or output total. The max is for assembled and tested nodes. The min is manual assembly of a medium sized system. JLC sells an IC controller used with the nodes and various circuit boards all the other parts are bought by the user from listed reputable parts suppliers. Assembly instructions are provided but the user manual goes into more detail. The limits are 128 nodes, 72 I/O per Mini Node and over 2000 I/O per Maxi Node. http://jlcenterprises.net/index.htm this site provides more information as well as a means to purchase the system and other products. On the support page is a link to the Yahoo C/MRI group. The price list for assembled parts and kits is in the yahoo user group under the files section.

[Anonymous]

I DIDNT UNDERSTAND THAT EITHER

[Anonymous]

Like I said, I'm no DCC expert, but I knew when I answered, there would be a dam burst of answers to get more "coerrect" or technical. Which is great. At least now, you have a plethora of answers to choose from. Before, you had none.

[Anonymous]

Lastly, I suggest you go here: http://www.freiwald.com/ Read ALL of it. You can see for yourself what route mapping is, and how to use it. Don't rely half answers, like someone said earlier. That site is the cutting edge in computer programming for DCC. No one else even comes close. Don't let anyone tell you they do. Read for yourself, you'll see. I thought about map routing with a computer, but the era I'm modeling really requires me to use ground throws to be prototypical, and, somehow, I have gotten REALLY hung up on being prototypical. It's a lot of reading, but well worth it. By the way, like someone else said, you CAN do map routing without a computer, but throwing the computer in the mix makes things MUCH easier. As cheap as a simple computer would be, if you're going to use map routing, there's no reason to do it without one.

[aluesch]

QUOTE: Originally posted by On30Shay

Lastly, I suggest you go here: http://www.freiwald.com/ Read ALL of it. That site is the cutting edge in computer programming for DCC. No one else even comes close.

On30Shay,
I don't think any software/hardware combination other then ZIMO/STP lets you run a train past a "red" signal in automatic mode. You have to either switch to semi-automatic or manual mode or turn the signal "green" first, which is not really prototypical.
As mentioned in my reply above, with a ZIMO/STP system all you do is press the "MAN" key for the respective engine(s) and the train will strictly obey your cab. This is especially important when it comes to prototypical shunting or whenever you want to control a train manually without "telling" the PC about it. Not having this feature is one of the major reasons many model railroaders shy away from computer control, because they are afraid that all they are left with is to sit there and watch trains go by. On the contrary, adding a PC to a system adds a whole new dimension of fun!

Regards,
Art
Zimo Agency of North America
http://www.mrsonline.net/

[grandeman]

Think of route control as basically "consisting" stationary decoders. When a command is given to the lead unit, the others perform their action as well. One push of a button can be used to align several turnouts, a route.

[Anonymous]

Evidently, you have not read the site in question. Although I have the software, but am not using it yet, someone I know is. It will do everything everyone has talked about here and more. All I can say is read. If you still don't think it will do what you're thinking, don't buy it. It won't be my loss.

QUOTE: Originally posted by aluesch

QUOTE: Originally posted by On30Shay

Lastly, I suggest you go here: http://www.freiwald.com/ Read ALL of it. That site is the cutting edge in computer programming for DCC. No one else even comes close.

On30Shay,
I don't think any software/hardware combination other then ZIMO/STP lets you run a train past a "red" signal in automatic mode. You have to either switch to semi-automatic or manual mode or turn the signal "green" first, which is not really prototypical.
As mentioned in my reply above, with a ZIMO/STP system all you do is press the "MAN" key for the respective engine(s) and the train will strictly obey your cab. This is especially important when it comes to prototypical shunting or whenever you want to control a train manually without "telling" the PC about it. Not having this feature is one of the major reasons many model railroaders shy away from computer control, because they are afraid that all they are left with is to sit there and watch trains go by. On the contrary, adding a PC to a system adds a whole new dimension of fun!

Regards,
Art
Zimo Agency of North America
http://www.mrsonline.net/

[aluesch]

QUOTE: Originally posted by On30Shay

Evidently, you have not read the site in question. Although I have the software, but am not using it yet, someone I know is. It will do everything everyone has talked about here and more. All I can say is read. If you still don't think it will do what you're thinking, don't buy it. It won't be my loss.

Yes I did read that site. But what I'm referring to is as much a hardware as it is a software solution. If the hardware doesn't offer a way for you to command the decoder to disregard computer signals, you simply can't do what I described. Railroad &Co certainly is a top of the line software but there is no way I can see that you can start operating a loco manually that is currently controlled by the PC by just pressing a key on the cab. You have to instruct the PC first. To many that may not be a big deal but in actual opearation it is [8D][8D]

Regards,
Art
Zimo Agency of North America
http://www.mrsonline.net/

[Anonymous]

All I can say is, I've seen it in action, and it does a LOT more than the site gives it credit for. There's a free info pack you can send for that tells you all about it.

QUOTE: Originally posted by aluesch

QUOTE: Originally posted by On30Shay

Evidently, you have not read the site in question. Although I have the software, but am not using it yet, someone I know is. It will do everything everyone has talked about here and more. All I can say is read. If you still don't think it will do what you're thinking, don't buy it. It won't be my loss.

Yes I did read that site. But what I'm referring to is as much a hardware as it is a software solution. If the hardware doesn't offer a way for you to command the decoder to disregard computer signals, you simply can't do what I described. Railroad &Co certainly is a top of the line software but there is no way I can see that you can start operating a loco manually that is currently controlled by the PC by just pressing a key on the cab. You have to instruct the PC first. To many that may not be a big deal but in actual opearation it is [8D][8D]

Regards,
Art
Zimo Agency of North America
http://www.mrsonline.net/

[CrazyDiamond]

QUOTE: Originally posted by On30Shay

All I can say is, I've seen it in action, and it does a LOT more than the site gives it credit for. There's a free info pack you can send for that tells you all about it.

Hi Rob,

Would you be able to help me find that free info pack? I was not able to find it on their web site. Also do you know of any "screen shots" online that I could view? Thanks in advance!

Cheers,
CD