Operations for Knuckleheads

[SpaceMouse]

I "get" operating using two staging yards--freight and passengers moving from one offworld staging yard through the layout to the other off-world staging yard. IN my basement layout design, I know all the trains and what they do and the purpose of each spur and siding.

But the layout I have now is a three-nested-loop 4x8 layout that I designed for continuous running and kids picking up hippogriffs at Hogwarts and dropping them off at Diagon Alley. I have managed to convert the layout to 1890's old West.

I have 3 pairs of industries.
Silver-mine Refinery
Casket Plant--Casket outlet
Brewery--two Sallons

But the refinery and calsket company use oil. I also need lumber and other materailas: hops, glass etc. and without staging, how do I deal with these things.

Naked, the layout looks like this.



You can see the arrangement of the industries in the link below.

[jrbernier]

Chip,

Forget about trying to 'pair' up the industries. When you think about it, why would a shipper(brewery) try to ship cases of beer to a saloon by rail? The mine/refinery sort of makes sense, but that is just another 'short haul'. Think about originating most of your traffic from 'off-stage' and delivering it to your industries. The major exception would be that mine. It will be generating loads, that can be moved to the refining/smeltering plant, and then the processed ore can be moved 'off-line'.
For 'staging': run the thru train up to that upper loop and use you '0-5-0' to move the cars to a special 'staging box'. 'Re-stage' the inbound train before you start a session. As you have found out, staging track are everything(you can never have too many). A friend designed a layout with NO staging(He thought it was so well dsigned that it would 'take care of itself'). Adding staging to a built railroad was not a fun task.....

Jim

[hminky]

Make the inner curve in front of the yard track in the forground the end of the railroad and interchange tracks. It would represent interchange with two connecting railroads.That connects the railroad to the outer world at both ends: staging. This gives a flow of cars on the railroad. Cars are taken around the railroad from that area and deposited as going to the connecting railroad at the other end of the line.

Just a thought
Harold

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jrbernier

Chip,

Forget about trying to 'pair' up the industries. When you think about it, why would a shipper(brewery) try to ship cases of beer to a saloon by rail? The mine/refinery sort of makes sense, but that is just another 'short haul'. Think about originating most of your traffic from 'off-stage' and delivering it to your industries. The major exception would be that mine. It will be generating loads, that can be moved to the refining/smeltering plant, and then the processed ore can be moved 'off-line'.
For 'staging': run the thru train up to that upper loop and use you '0-5-0' to move the cars to a special 'staging box'. 'Re-stage' the inbound train before you start a session. As you have found out, staging track are everything(you can never have too many). A friend designed a layout with NO staging(He thought it was so well dsigned that it would 'take care of itself'). Adding staging to a built railroad was not a fun task.....

Jim

The brewery would ship to a mining town loading dock.

I'm combining my comment with Harolds below.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by hminky

Make the inner curve in front of the yard track in the forground the end of the railroad and interchange tracks. It would represent interchange with two connecting railroads.That connects the railroad to the outer world at both ends: staging. This gives a flow of cars on the railroad. Cars are taken around the railroad from that area and deposited as going to the connecting railroad at the other end of the line.

Just a thought
Harold

If I am gettiing what you two are saying, you are suggesting I make a makeshift fiddle track out of a section of track. When I think about it, that is sort of what I do, but so far I have not taken it to the next level. I set up a train and switch it out then I'm done.

But theoretically, I should be able to set up car cards, run the cars through their routes, then filp the cards and I'm set for the next series. I would have to 0-5-0 the cars to the box (staging) and 0-5-0 new cars in. Am I on the right track?

Harold, I'm not quite visualizing the interchange idea. Can you elaborate? Maybe give an example?

[rrinker]

The interchange idea was well done in a Model Railroader project layout from the 90's, I can't remember the name of it, but it's the one that used Kato track(in HO, it was a 4x8). Just a siding off to one edge of the layout, good for I'd guess 5-6 cars. Everything not produced by on-layout industries, but consumed by them, comes in from the interchange. Everything produced by on-line industries but not consumed there goes out via the interchange. It's a one-track staging yard and a 'universal industry' since you can legitimately send anything there since it represents the entire rest of the country.

--Randy

[hminky]

The inner track between the passing sidings becomes an interchange track. We have the passing siding on the left we will call Left and the one on the right becomes the town of Right. They are the ends of the railroad it runs from town Left to town Right. At the town Left the railroad interchanges with the Southern, at Right it interchanges with the Pennsy.
A car at an industry then is either directed to the interchange tracks of the Pennsy or Southern. The cars on the interchange can be withdraw from the track from either end. If the card says Southern when withdrawn from the Pennsy side it becomes through freight to the Southern interchange. If it says Pennsy it is is taken to the industry.

Hope that helps.
Harold

[SpaceMouse]

Okay,

I'm getting closer.

The inner loop is the interchange track between the Southern and the Pennsy.

The Southern moves off the loop to the upper level and outer loops.
The Pennsy is the inner loops.

All off-world traffic is directed to the interchange track.
By use of 0-5-0,
I can pull the car,
Build a train for the Southern
Build a train for the Pennsy

Am I getting it? I am kinda sorta being an 0-5-0 interchange classification yard?

[hminky]

I misread you configuration. The interchange track would be under the upper oval. Track pattern would be: Right passing siding on inner oval around thru the upper crossover of the left passing siding. Around the the outer oval and back down the hill to the right passing siding. That gives a point to point schematic. The inner loop connection under the upper loop is the interchange track. There are no Pennsy or Southern trains or 0-5-0 operation. The interchange track is the industry to industry connection.

Harold

[orsonroy]

Chip,

You probably have room for a "real live" staging yard for your layout and don't even know it. On my first layout (a good old 4x8) I had about the most basic staging yard imaginable: a 6' long 1x6 with two tracks and one switch on it. While inelegant, it did the trick, and I could stage either an entire (short) train on it, or use it as a fiddle yard to pick up & drop off cuts of cars.

See if you can free up eight linear feet of wallspace somewhere, and add a 1'x8' extension to the layout. With three-way switches, you could get up to six tracks on that space, which would be more than enough for your size of layout.

Operationally, the yard would be simple: run a train out of staging, run it around for a lap or two (for distance), switch a town, run a lap, switch a town, run a lap, and return it to staging. You could either use the yard to hold trains, or to fiddle cars around for a new train without having to resort to the old 0-5-0.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy

Chip,

You probably have room for a "real live" staging yard for your layout and don't even know it. On my first layout (a good old 4x8) I had about the most basic staging yard imaginable: a 6' long 1x6 with two tracks and one switch on it. While inelegant, it did the trick, and I could stage either an entire (short) train on it, or use it as a fiddle yard to pick up & drop off cuts of cars.

See if you can free up eight linear feet of wallspace somewhere, and add a 1'x8' extension to the layout. With three-way switches, you could get up to six tracks on that space, which would be more than enough for your size of layout.

Operationally, the yard would be simple: run a train out of staging, run it around for a lap or two (for distance), switch a town, run a lap, switch a town, run a lap, and return it to staging. You could either use the yard to hold trains, or to fiddle cars around for a new train without having to resort to the old 0-5-0.

My layout has no home right now. I hesitate to finish it, but I want to. It won't fit when I start basement layout construction.

That said, while listening to myself and others I realized that there is no good substitute for a real staging area, so I started looking at where I could put something. I could put a turnout at the beginning of the grade and get a 3-track staging yard on a 1x6 and it will be hidden from the layout. I have the turnouts and flex and foam to do it.

[Anonymous]

Pick a siding and call it interchange from the "Outside world"

Visit that siding (Or even a passing track) at the start of the session to work the inbound cars and drop off the outbounds.

Work the railroad and at the end of the session you should think that the cars you sent out via the interchange to the real world will reappear in a later Op session from the current having reached thier destination, unloaded and reloaded.

Thus:

Beer load sent to interchange on monday

That beer arrived tuesday

Car reloaded and sent back to your railroad with load of staves and hoops for barrels on Wedensday

It should reappear on thursday at your interchange for you to pick up and send to the beer works either thursday or friday.

Assuming sat and sunday off that car should be reloaded with beer and ready to go sometime monday.

that is a fictional schedule for one boxcar for hauling one load of beer to a customer somewhere in neverland during a workweek.

As you can see it will take you approx 4 to 5 ops sessions to complete the cycle on that one boxcar.

I have a link to a photo of a Covered hopper which I built and now sits on the Hobby Shop's 4x8 layout representing the connection to the outside world:

The link got busted. Go to my signature and visit the photobucket album and view Photo #18

As you can see there is a little note pad next to the designated track for the interchange. The railroad would already have a plan for this car to one of the 8 industries on the railroad during a ops session using 2 part of 4 part car cards.

If this hopper was to be brought into the area, sent to the cattle yard for delivery of feeds and then when empty sent out to the same interchange. Several days later will reappear.

Just an example to assist you; hope it helps!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse


I have managed to convert the layout to 1890's old West.

I have 3 pairs of industries.
Silver-mine Refinery
Casket Plant--Casket outlet
Brewery--two Sallons

But the refinery and casket company use oil. I also need lumber and other materials: hops, glass etc. and without staging, how do I deal with these things.

This was my favorite part of planing my layout. What ships out and what supplies come in?

Silver mine Ore out. Timber for shoring up the mine, some light track for the ore cars coming out of the mine, small shipments of tools and various hardware. Hoppers, flat cars and an occasional box cars

Refinery Silver and tailings(sp?) out. Ore in. Fuel in Coal? Oil? I don't know about silver refining but some refineries use other chemicals in the processing. Small shipments of crating material and other supplies. Hoppers, tank cars, and box cars.

Casket manufacture. Crated caskets out. Lumber in. Hardware or plain metal stock in to make the hardware. Upholstery material, cloth and horse hair for the interiors. Varnish, linseed oil finishing the wood. Box cars and flats.

Brewery Cases of bottles and kegs out. Barley in. Fuel in to boil the wort. Hops and passably a few local favorites for flavoring. Of course empty bottles and kegs in. Box cars, tanks or hoppers for fuel.

Of course they won't necessarily ship or receive every type of shipment every day. With a little randomization you should be able to keep relatively busy with those industries. I know that in the 1890's grain was shipped in box cars but I am not sure what type of tank cars would have been used.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar



I have a link to a photo of a Covered hopper which I built and now sits on the Hobby Shop's 4x8 layout representing the connection to the outside world:

The link got busted. Go to my signature and visit the photobucket album and view Photo #18

As you can see there is a little note pad next to the designated track for the interchange. The railroad would already have a plan for this car to one of the 8 industries on the railroad during a ops session using 2 part of 4 part car cards.

If this hopper was to be brought into the area, sent to the cattle yard for delivery of feeds and then when empty sent out to the same interchange. Several days later will reappear.

Just an example to assist you; hope it helps!

H.I. I could not find a link on your signature.

[Anonymous]

Try this one

http://photobucket.com/albums/v651/fallsvalleyrr/

Then navigate down to the 18th of the 24 photos

[SpaceMouse]

Thanks.

The picture helped. Do you just set the car out and then 0-5-0 it off or do you leave it for the next day. Is this like a set out track for the interchange or do you see it as staging, or both.

I took the liberty of clicking around. Some nice stuff. I could not get a sense of scope. What is the size of your layout.

[Anonymous]

We use that section of track which winds down towards a corner of the 4x8 on the LHS layout.

There is actually a depot, town with a team track and a house track/passing siding with room for 4 freight cars to run around.

The cars are placed on the track 0-5-0 and the operation is set up using car cards in a 4 cycle format. The engine then works the interchange with it's cars first and then travels the rest of the railroad serving the sawmill, cattle, produce, freight depot, etc...

I have a 5 foot section of track on the work bench to test and adjust my fleet. There is a 2x8 foot that is still in planning stages. The layout does not yet have a pernament home. I do travel to the LHS and to a friends railroad for mainline running. There are several other people in my area who are also in the process of building railroads and business is good.

We are in a fight with cancer at this time, the railroad gets a little time from time to time but obviously the treatment this year is more priority.

I should have some more images to go onto the site soon but there has not been too much progress at this season.

I am glad you were able to find out a way to schedule your ops on your railroad, and wish you best of luck!

[Anonymous]

Another thread on some of these same topics
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=46614