Was anyone else depressed when...

[grandeman]

Was anyone else depressed when Walter's bought out LL? I know Walther's is a grand old model railroading company, but have you seen the prices of P2K stuff in their recent flyer? I've not paid over about $55 for a P2K loco up until now and now this. I hate to say it, but I knew it was coming when the news of the buy out broke. Oh well, I guess it's on to Atlas, Stewart and Kato. I've been wanting to try those brands anyway...

[davekelly]

Grandeman,

Remember what is listed in the Walthers flyer is the MSRP. Did you purchase your previous LL engines at MSRP or at a discount. I believe that if you do some checking (ie: Model Railroader Product Reviews) you'll find that the MSRP for those engines you bought were higher than $55.00. I haven't noticed any significant price increase for LL locomotives from the discounters lately.

Dave

[jrbernier]

The P2K stuff has had a high MSRP from the beginning. The old ph2 GP9's were about $90 MSRP, but you could get them for about $40-45 'street price' from several vendors via the internet/mail order. The last run of 'sound' ph1 GP9's were about $250 MSRP, but I bought mine for $160 via email.
What may very well change is that we will not see the 'deep' discounting. Life-Like appears to have sold to very large discount dealers for 'wholesale' price, and many times appears to have cleaned out the warehouse(like all of the leftover E's) at rock bottom prices. I sort of doubt that we will see that again. I do expect to see mail order discounts in the 20% range.
The other item I am going to watch is the accuracy. P2K seemed to be very good about painting/numbering engines with the correct schemes/road numbers. I hope that is not lost on Walthers. Walthers has not done bad in the past few years, but they seem to research more modern stuff much better than older items. For example, the 'Heavyweight' passenger cars are nice; but they tend to 'broadbush' the paint schemes and the included lettering sometimes is of questionable accuracy. That said, the cars are nice and are so much better than what we had 20 years ago!

Jim Bernier

[Anonymous]

I wonder if Life-Like spun off the "toy" division because it wasn't paying for itself, something that Walthers apparently does not follow as a business model. Besides someone has to pay for all the loss line business going to Wal-Mart in slot cars. We will have to see what the street pricing shakes out to with baited breath.
Heck of a way to run a railroad!
Will

[loathar]

I got sticker shock when I got that flyer too.Maybe they'll come down when no one buys them at those prices. The 06 Walthers catalog has about 60 more pages this year do to the LL stuff.( $23, ouch!)

[grandeman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by loathar

I got sticker shock when I got that flyer too.Maybe they'll come down when no one buys them at those prices. The 06 Walthers catalog has about 60 more pages this year do to the LL stuff.( $23, ouch!)

I'm sitting here looking at a GP20 listed at $165, no sound or DCC![:0] I know that's retail but wow!!!

[loathar]

I meant $23 for the new catalog, but yea, $165 for a GP 20 !!??? I won't be grabbing any of those up.[:O]

[MisterBeasley]

Remember, Life-Like could have been bought out by Investment Capital types with no knowledge of, or interest in, model railroading. They would have re-tooled all the train production facilities into the more lucrative slot-cars-for-Wal-Mart business, and left us with nothing but the Proto inventories still in the warehouses.

It's always better to have more, rather than fewer, manufacturers. If that can't be, though, I think we're a lot better off with Walthers than we would be with the likes of WorldCom or Enron.

[cacole]

I never purchase directly from Walthers -- even their "sale" prices are higher than what many on-line retailers are charging for the same items. Even the Walthers catalog can be found for around $14 if you look around.

[rolleiman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cacole

I never purchase directly from Walthers -- even their "sale" prices are higher than what many on-line retailers are charging for the same items. Even the Walthers catalog can be found for around $14 if you look around.

Or the Walthers Catalog can be found free, online.. All scales too.. It doesn't really matter to me who manufactures the stuff, it'll still be in China.. Don't like the price, don't buy it..

Jeff
[;)]

[davekelly]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MisterBeasley

Remember, Life-Like could have been bought out by Investment Capital types with no knowledge of, or interest in, model railroading. They would have re-tooled all the train production facilities into the more lucrative slot-cars-for-Wal-Mart business, and left us with nothing but the Proto inventories still in the warehouses.

It's always better to have more, rather than fewer, manufacturers. If that can't be, though, I think we're a lot better off with Walthers than we would be with the likes of WorldCom or Enron.

[#ditto][#ditto]

[icmr]

No.



ICMR

[Anonymous]

Not really. I was never really that big a fan of P2K (or Walthers) anyway. I have a few of their locomotives, they're pretty nice, but I'll stick with Athearn, Atlas and Kato.

[Anonymous]

I used to be a confirmed athearn junkie, because they had the same stuff that Proto-2000 was coming out with, at alot lower prices. Why pay $75,00 for the Proto-2000 GP-7/9/18/20/30/35 when Athearn for my needs had similar locomotives to so the same job for $29.95. (This was the pricing at what was then my LHS) Then irv died. The prices went up, and up and up and up and up and up and up. Now my $29.95 GP 35 isn't even around in the same guise any more. Replaced by some RPP shell, Its only sold ready to run, and they don't even offer undec. The GP-7 is gone. along with their SD-9 and we havn't even gotten into the other stuff.

Then Horizon buys them out and really screws stuff up.

When I furst heard that Walthers was buying proto-2000 so it could have a longer and more sustaind production run as well as relaible supply I thought that would be a good thing. But now that I see they trippled their prices, I am not so sure. The prices they are asking, I can buy brass stuff for that. Since brass has a certain preistage that plastic doesn't, thats what I am going to do. Probably the only exception will be anything released in GN Big Sky Blue.

Then as much as a free radical as I am, I think I might go scratcbuild me a GP-9 or something to.

Just my [2c]worh

[DavidJ611]

QUOTE: Was anyone else depressed when Walter's bought out LL?

Yes, I was saddened to hear they got gobbled up. Not anything against Walthers, personally, but the first and foremost effect you mention (economic) is a concern of mine. Now with Walthers single-handedly controlling product distribution, we'll all have to pony up more $$$ for their cut on each new piece--with no added value to the end customer.

Additionally, I am concerned that:
1) Walthers will not maintain the same stellar customer service that LL provided.
2) Issue of new products will be even more limited and they will be harder to get a hold of. (Can you say "Backorder"?[:(])
3) Product information is already suffering. LL used to have an excellent product website that catalogued both present and past product issues, but alas, it is no more. [sigh] In comparison, the Walthers listing is weak. [V]

I hope WKW proves me wrong.
-Dave

[davekelly]

QUOTE: Originally posted by DavidJ611

Now with Walthers single-handedly controlling product distribution, we'll all have to pony up more $$$ for their cut on each new piece--with no added value to the end customer.

I'm thinking that Life Like's previous owner also took a cut, so hopefully it will be a wash.

If you ain't having fun, you're not doing it right and if you are having fun, don't let anyone tell you you're doing it wrong.

• Reply