Quick Ebay Rant of The Day

[1shado1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by modlerbob

MABruce is right. When you bid (no matter whether early or late) only the amount which is the minimum over the previous bidder's highest bid is shown to the world. Example;
an item is showing a current bid of $20.50, you are willing to pay $24.50 so you enter $24.50. The previous bidder had a high bid of $22.50 so if the increment is $0.50 your bid will show up at $23.00 keeping your $24.50 hidden until say someone else bids $24.00 in which case your bid will automatically raise to $24.50. What happens then depends on whether one of the other bidders decides he/she is willing to go higher in which case you will be outbid. If $24.50 is the true max you will pay then someone else will win the auction. I see sniping as good only for preventing a bidding war on a popular item that several bidders are trying to get at a bargain.

Bob DeWoody

MABruce is only semi-right. By sniping, you are not upping the current high bid visible to other bidders, which causes them to bid higher. Sniping obviously does not mean you will always win. But by sniping, you usually have a better chance of winning, usually at a lower price. Sniping always makes more sense than not sniping.

[Anonymous]

And sniping is much easier to do when you are actually at the computer at 4 am in the morning when everyone else is asleep. (If the auction ends at that hour)

People who bid early only telegraphs interest and allows someone else to slowly bid up at 1 or two dollar incretments over time until that person's high bid is busted thru. Unfortunately that high bid is pretty close to MSRP with shipping.

[MAbruce]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 1shado1

QUOTE: Originally posted by MAbruce

QUOTE: Originally posted by 1shado1

It might be funny if you knew what you were talking about. Unfortunately, you don't. Let's suppose that an item has a current high bid of $8.00, with 3 days left until closing. Let's say the max that I'm willing to pay for the item is $10.00. If I bid my $10.00 with 3 days left, and am shown as high bidder at that $10.00 amount with 3 days left,...

I think you just went wrong on your example. At this point you might be shown as the high bidder at the next bid increment (maybe $8.50 if the other bidder didn't set their MAX bid higher - or didn't set it above $10 to begin with). If you are the highest bidder at the next increment, then your MAX bid is still hidden and ebay will proxy bid for you up to $10. If you don't want to pay over $10 for that item, and you lose the auction, then the winner paid more than you wanted to.

To me the point is not only to win the auction, but to win it and not pay more than you wanted to.

Yes, but it doesn't change the fact that by sniping instead of bidding early, you leave a lower "target" amount visible for others to bid against. This makes it easier to acquire items at a lower price.

Not sure what you mean by this. What is the difference between (in your terms) "leaving a lower target amount visible" and a low starting price? Both will likely get sniped. A proxy bid will deflect any sniping attempt under the MAX bid you set (and are willing to pay).

I’m not trying to flame you by asking this, but wondering if you understand how proxy bidding works?

[1shado1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MAbruce

QUOTE: Originally posted by 1shado1

QUOTE: Originally posted by MAbruce

QUOTE: Originally posted by 1shado1

It might be funny if you knew what you were talking about. Unfortunately, you don't. Let's suppose that an item has a current high bid of $8.00, with 3 days left until closing. Let's say the max that I'm willing to pay for the item is $10.00. If I bid my $10.00 with 3 days left, and am shown as high bidder at that $10.00 amount with 3 days left,...

I think you just went wrong on your example. At this point you might be shown as the high bidder at the next bid increment (maybe $8.50 if the other bidder didn't set their MAX bid higher - or didn't set it above $10 to begin with). If you are the highest bidder at the next increment, then your MAX bid is still hidden and ebay will proxy bid for you up to $10. If you don't want to pay over $10 for that item, and you lose the auction, then the winner paid more than you wanted to.

To me the point is not only to win the auction, but to win it and not pay more than you wanted to.

Yes, but it doesn't change the fact that by sniping instead of bidding early, you leave a lower "target" amount visible for others to bid against. This makes it easier to acquire items at a lower price.

Not sure what you mean by this. What is the difference between (in your terms) "leaving a lower target amount visible" and a low starting price? Both will likely get sniped. A proxy bid will deflect any sniping attempt under the MAX bid you set (and are willing to pay).

I’m not trying to flame you by asking this, but wondering if you understand how proxy bidding works?

I understand. You're looking for clarification of my point. I fully realize how proxy bidding works. You are correct that any proxy bid will defeat any sniping bid of the same maximum amount, due to the fact that the proxy bid was placed earlier (obviously) than the sniping bid. Lets say that an item has an opening price of $6.00. "Frank" places a proxy bid of $9.00. But because no one else has bid yet, his bid is shown as $6.00 (even though his high bid is actually $9.00 if needed). Let's say that I'm willing to pay $10.00 for the same item. So I enter $10.00 immediately, making me the high bidder ME at $9.50 (or whatever the increase increment is). Frank sees that I have outbid him. He now bids higher than my max bid in order to be high bidder again. If I hadn't bid immediately with my $10.00 to become high bidder, Frank wouldn't have had to bid higher to overcome my visible bid. He may have become confident that his current $6.00 would be enough to win, and if not, he still has $3.00 that will be proxy bid in reserve. In this scenario, I snipe at the last second and win the item for $9.50. In the original scenario, I would have been required to spend more ca***o get the item. I realize that this is a simplified scenario only involving 2 bidders. All things being equal, you will win more items, and at a lower price by sniping. I hope this makes sense.[:D]

Jeff

[1shado1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar

And sniping is much easier to do when you are actually at the computer at 4 am in the morning when everyone else is asleep. (If the auction ends at that hour)

People who bid early only telegraphs interest and allows someone else to slowly bid up at 1 or two dollar incretments over time until that person's high bid is busted thru. Unfortunately that high bid is pretty close to MSRP with shipping.

Better to use sniping software than waiting up till 4 in the morning.[:D]

Your second paragraph states PERFECTLY what I've been trying to say, only much more succinctly than I have been able to. Bravo![tup]

Jeff

[MAbruce]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 1shado1

I understand. You're looking for clarification of my point. I fully realize how proxy bidding works. You are correct that any proxy bid will defeat any sniping bid of the same maximum amount, due to the fact that the proxy bid was placed earlier (obviously) than the sniping bid. Lets say that an item has an opening price of $6.00. "Frank" places a proxy bid of $9.00. But because no one else has bid yet, his bid is shown as $6.00 (even though his high bid is actually $9.00 if needed). Let's say that I'm willing to pay $10.00 for the same item. So I enter $10.00 immediately, making me the high bidder ME at $9.50 (or whatever the increase increment is). Frank sees that I have outbid him. He now bids higher than my max bid in order to be high bidder again. If I hadn't bid immediately with my $10.00 to become high bidder, Frank wouldn't have had to bid higher to overcome my visible bid. He may have become confident that his current $6.00 would be enough to win, and if not, he still has $3.00 that will be proxy bid in reserve. In this scenario, I snipe at the last second and win the item for $9.50. In the original scenario, I would have been required to spend more ca***o get the item. I realize that this is a simplified scenario only involving 2 bidders. All things being equal, you will win more items, and at a lower price by sniping. I hope this makes sense.[:D]

Jeff

Your explanation makes sense, but you have Frank bidding incorrectly. If I were Frank, and didn't want to pay over $10 for the item, then I would have set my MAX bid at $10 (not $9) and walk away. Only those snipers that wanted to pay more than $10 would win. Frank would lose the auction only because someone wanted to pay more than he was willing to.

Frank can then wait for another of the same item to come up for auction (which usually happens) and try again. If he is consistently getting outbid at $10, then Frank either has to give up or reconsider his notion of winning at $10.

Of course this strategy is more risky for those rare items that don't come up often. Then you have to really know your prices and set your MAX bid carefully. Or snipe.[:D][;)]

To me sniping takes far more self control. The temptation to snipe at a higher price than you would have before you looked at the auction is too much.

[csmith9474]

If there is an item that I want I will snipe with a rediculously high bid. You possibly at the mercy of a sniper that gets a bid in after you, but you are gonna get what you want. With a lot of the stuff that I buy, it is not so much the cost of the item but the value of the item to me. Like that Hallmark Hi Level lounge that I missed out on (forgot about) a couple of weeks ago. It went for just over $200. I would have laid out a snipe with my max at
$500. I do understand that highly sought after OOP stuff is a different story than trying to get a good deal on that BLI "J".

[1shado1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MAbruce

QUOTE: Originally posted by 1shado1

I understand. You're looking for clarification of my point. I fully realize how proxy bidding works. You are correct that any proxy bid will defeat any sniping bid of the same maximum amount, due to the fact that the proxy bid was placed earlier (obviously) than the sniping bid. Lets say that an item has an opening price of $6.00. "Frank" places a proxy bid of $9.00. But because no one else has bid yet, his bid is shown as $6.00 (even though his high bid is actually $9.00 if needed). Let's say that I'm willing to pay $10.00 for the same item. So I enter $10.00 immediately, making me the high bidder ME at $9.50 (or whatever the increase increment is). Frank sees that I have outbid him. He now bids higher than my max bid in order to be high bidder again. If I hadn't bid immediately with my $10.00 to become high bidder, Frank wouldn't have had to bid higher to overcome my visible bid. He may have become confident that his current $6.00 would be enough to win, and if not, he still has $3.00 that will be proxy bid in reserve. In this scenario, I snipe at the last second and win the item for $9.50. In the original scenario, I would have been required to spend more ca***o get the item. I realize that this is a simplified scenario only involving 2 bidders. All things being equal, you will win more items, and at a lower price by sniping. I hope this makes sense.[:D]

Jeff

Your explanation makes sense, but you have Frank bidding incorrectly. If I were Frank, and didn't want to pay over $10 for the item, then I would have set my MAX bid at $10 (not $9) and walk away. Only those snipers that wanted to pay more than $10 would win. Frank would lose the auction only because someone wanted to pay more than he was willing to.

Frank can then wait for another of the same item to come up for auction (which usually happens) and try again. If he is consistently getting outbid at $10, then Frank either has to give up or reconsider his notion of winning at $10.

Of course this strategy is more risky for those rare items that don't come up often. Then you have to really know your prices and set your MAX bid carefully. Or snipe.[:D][;)]

To me sniping takes far more self control. The temptation to snipe at a higher price than you would have before you looked at the auction is too much.

Well, I don't know Frank well enough to tell him how to bid. [:D] My point was that many people don't place their maximum proxy bid when they place their first bid. Or even if they HAD intended to place their max proxy bid when first bidding, they often change their minds and bid higher once they see their max has been topped by others.

For me, sniping actually takes less self control, for some reason. I spot an auction with 5 days left (or whatever), I immediately go to the website of my preferred sniper software, and place my max bid for sniping. I then completely put that particular auction out of my mind. The only way I ever know the outcome is when I'm notified by Ebay that I've won. Back when I used to proxy bid, before the sniping concept became widespread, I had a tendency to keep revisiting the particular auction page, upping my bids and losing self control. I would also bid too much when manually sniping (automatic sniping cured me of this). But this is just me. I can understand how lack of self control can be triggered by sniping, too.[:D]

Jeff

[MAbruce]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 1shado1

Well, I don't know Frank well enough to tell him how to bid. [:D] My point was that many people don't place their maximum proxy bid when they place their first bid. Or even if they HAD intended to place their max proxy bid when first bidding, they often change their minds and bid higher once they see their max has been topped by others.

What do you mean you don't know Frank well enough?? [;)] I thought everyone knew Frank! [:p]

I think not placing your MAX bid the first time out, and then going back to up it after you have been out-bid is not a very effective way to use proxy bidding. I can see how people would lose self control under these circumstances.

QUOTE: For me, sniping actually takes less self control, for some reason. I spot an auction with 5 days left (or whatever), I immediately go to the website of my preferred sniper software, and place my max bid for sniping. I then completely put that particular auction out of my mind. The only way I ever know the outcome is when I'm notified by Ebay that I've won. Back when I used to proxy bid, before the sniping concept became widespread, I had a tendency to keep revisiting the particular auction page, upping my bids and losing self control. But this is just me. I can understand how lack of self control can be triggered by sniping, too.[:D]

Jeff

I can see how you can use these sniping programs in the same way as proxy bidding. They both allow you to set your MAX price and walk away. I'd just prefer to be the first guy to put my MAX price in place and let it play out.

Oh, just as a note, in a real live auction there is no such thing as sniping. Everyone is given the same chance to bid the highest before the auction is closed (going once...going twice...SOLD to the guy in the funny engineers cap...). [:D]

[davekelly]

Isn't Frank the guy on the hot dog commercial?