Styrene Foam Flammability

[Anonymous]

Anyone here have any info regarding how flammable "builder's foam" is? Since it's made of styrene, I assume it burns. AS one who has had more than one failed attempt at stretching sprue over a flame, I KNOW just how NASTY that smoke is.

I've got this horrible picture of having an entire layout go up in smoke and toxic fumes - to say nothing of the building housing it!

Any info is welcome...

Dave

[ereimer]

from dow's styrofoam website

QUOTE: Fire
Information on aspects of fire performance of extruded polystyrene in building applications is given in BS 6203: 1991, 'Fire characteristics and fire performance of expanded polystyrene materials used in building applications'.

STYROFOAM Brand products contain a flame-retardant additive to inhibit accidental ignition from a small fire source, but they are combustible and, if exposed to an intense fire, may burn rapidly.

In most countries, fire classifications are based on small-scale tests, which may not reflect the reaction of the material under actual fire conditions.

Polystyrene products will melt when brought into direct contact with high temperature heat sources. For STYROFOAM Brand Insulation from Dow, the recommended maximum continuous operation temperature is 75°C. Do not expose the boards to flame or other ignition sources

complete info at http://www.dow.com/styrofoam/ap/china/prod/tech.htm

you would think they'd design something used for building houses that didn't burn at all

[Anonymous]

I heard a story , about a guy who used a spray on glue for scenery, on foam, then in one section he needed to do some soldering. The still slightly wet glue lit on fire and the foam began to burn, he put the fire out, and managed to salvage the layout, with a bigger canyon than planned.

[edkowal]

Styrene foam is definitely a flammable substance. As mentioned on Dow's website, it will burn RAPIDLY if exposed to an intense fire (flame.) Household fires can quickly become intense. All you have to do is notice the next news coverage in your area of a house fire. So you're using a material in your basement which could burn rapidly, intensifying an already bad situation. And it will produce that thick black smoke which you are already aware of. Note here, that I'm talking about hazards which contribute to an extraordinary situation, a house fire. But they do happen, and nobody, or almost nobody, plans to have a housefire. If you think that the risk is worth the benefit, then have at it.

It's recommended by manufacturers that the foam not be used unless it is encapsulated. For us that would mean enclosing it in a relatively non burning material, like plaster.

Also, large amounts of foam dust can be a dust explosion hazard if exposed to a spark or other ignition source.

For additional information, look up styrofoam and flammability on the web.

-Ed

[Anonymous]

Suggestions:
GET, FIT AND MAINTAIN SMOKE DETECTORS... IF YOUR LAYOUT ROOM IS A BIT CUT OFF FROM THE REST OF THE HOUSE YOU CAN GET DETECTORS THAT WILL LINK TOGETHER... ANY ONE GOES OFF THE WHOLE LOT WILL.

Some years ago I tried one of the spray-in cans of foam used for cavity filling... just sprayed a blob onto a board. It formed a dollop of foam which survived pretty much everything for a year or so. I was going to try spraying into a cardboard box to get ablock of the stuff... never got round to it. BEWARE! WHEN FIRST SPRAYED IT HAS AN EXOTHERMIC REACTION ( It gets HOT). I Don't recall the make or whether I tested it for flamability. Suggest you might want to make your own tests... Also phone up the information line listed on the can / go on the web etc. I IMAGINE that cavity foam MIGHT be safer than ordinary polystyrene BUT I DON'T KNOW.

One of our bi-annual fire training upgrades we were told the story of a guy who spent all morning laying floor tiles in his kitchen with a "heavy petroleum vapour" type glue. When he was done he was so pleased with the result that he sat back on his haunches and lit himself a cigarette. Apparently the result spoilt him, and his whole kitchen as well as the new floor...

Hey... if you haven't got detectors...GET DETECTORS ANYWAY!... YOU CAN GET CARBON MONOXIDE DETECTORS AS WELL...could be specially useful in a basement... especially if you have your heater down there with you.

ASK YOUR LOCAL FIRE DEPARTMENT... they'd rather talk to you now than call round in a hurry later.

[cmrproducts]

And then people wonder why I still use plaster! When it is dry it is rock which ain't gonna burn.

And besides after using the hot wire foam cutter for what little foam scenery I have on my layout, the seizures usually subside after a few hours!

Bob H – Clarion, PA

[Anonymous]

Yep, smoke detectors are the way to go. In Australia where I am a fireman, it is unheard of anyone dying in a house fitted with smoke detectors, also the house is often saved due to the neighbours (if their good one's and home) calling in the fire.

In your couch (assuming you have one, and matress) at home you have a huge amount of foam, not the same as styrofoam, but flammible just the same. And then people smoke on them. Just use common sense.

And invest in a fire extinguisher and fire blanket, If that's what you call them in the states.[:D]

[Anonymous]

Everything burns. It's just a matter of how quickly.

[Anonymous]

On August 15, 2005, I posted the following in reply to a similar thread:

QUOTE: Reading this thread jogged my memory. When I fixed up my basement I put the foam board against the concrete block walls and put paneling over that. I remember reading a pamphlet at the store (one of the big-box home supply stores) about use of the foam board. It recommended that it be covered with a nonflammable material (plaster board was used as an example). I suppose maybe some areas made this recommendation part of their building codes, which might be why it's not sold in some areas (??).

Anyway I decided to check its flammability. Not more than ten minutes ago, I tried to burn a piece of it outside in my back yard. I used a standard propane torch and a piece of Owen's pink foam. As long as the propane flame was in contact wioth the foam, the foam burned with a yellow flame that produced heavy, sooty, black smoke. After taking the propane flame away from the foam, the yellow flame self-extinguished itself in less than two seconds. I would assume that breathing the heavy black smoke would not be very healthy. I then tried this same experiment on a piece of white bead board. Pretty much the same thing happened - heavy black smoke - but this time it took about ten seconds for the flame to self-extinguish. I didn't have any blue foam to try.

[Anonymous]

As this is moving to be about fire I'd like to add a bit more...

I'm glad dannydd agrees with me but would like to add some pointers about extinguishers:-

1. LEARN HOW AND WHEN TO USE THEM
Learn the types, what to use them on and how
2. GET ADVICE FROM PROFESSIONALS

YOU DO THESE TWO NOW BECAUSE even if you can go and get an extinguisher this minute IF YOU DON’T KNOW HOW TO USE IT RIGHT YOU CAN END UP DEAD… OR SOMEONE ELSE DEAD…

I MAINTAIN 4kilo dry powder extinguishers in my vehicles, home and store/modelling sheds. Here they cost about the same to buy as a Kato loco. I plan to never to need to use the extinguishers … but will use them if I need to.
I also carry the small auto-shop dry-powder extinguishers on my vehicles… at least 2 on each. This is because the 4kilos are big for a vehicle/ for serious incidents my training enables me to know what to do about. The little ones are good to hit a fire with at the moment it starts to get people out and stop things fast if possible. If one of these isn’t enough and people are out I stand back and let it burn. The second small extinguisher is there as back-up until I replace the first one.

Okay… so I’m trained… but not a fireman… I DON’T TAKE RISKS. I’M NOT SUPERMAN.

Some FIRE RULES. (I’m open to be corrected on these).

1. The best way to deal with fire is to make sure it doesn’t happen.
This means
• design it right
• build it right
• USE IT RIGHT
• maintain it right
• maintain good housekeeping
2. Plan your emergency actions.
• Know what to do if it happens… make sure your family and friends know what to do… while you’re pausing a moment to think about it a fire is not going to be waiting for you.
• PLAN
o How to get out
o Where to go to (Rendezvous Point… if you all meet up you know you’re all out)
o How to get help …DON’T rely on your cellphone.
3. IF YOU DISCOVER FIRE:
• RAISE THE ALARM
• GET OUT
• STAY OUT
• GET HELP
• DON’T ALLOW ANYONE BACK IN FOR ANYTHING UNTIL THE PREFESSIONALS TELL YOU IT IS SAFE

Okay, so you’re going to get out and stay out… what’s the point of getting extinguishers?

Just seeing them there all the time keeps you thinking right.
Part of good housekeeping is making sure you can always see them. This is partly
down to placement… BUT…
• Make sure they are never removed from where they should be except for maintenance and use.
• Make sure they are never covered.
• They are NOT door stops.
• Any friend who can’t get the message isn’t a friend
My training says that EXTINGUISHERS ARE there TO GET YOU OUT.
They are NOT THERE TO FIGHT FIRE.
FIRECREW ARE THERE TO FIGHT FIRE.
(Okay… so a cigarette butt sets fire to your trash can as you walk by with a bucket of water… use it… but don’t try to be Superman… also… this goes back to good housekeeping.
Even if you don’t smoke, if you have visitors make sure they will know where they may smoke and provide for safe disposal.
Again… if you put out a small starter fire make sure everything is out… if in doubt get it checked by professionals.
I’ve seen firecrew load back up only to discover that a fire had gone through ducting and started another fIre behind the building… if they can get it wrong so can I, so can you. BE 100% certain).

FIRE EXTINGUISHERS ARE THERE TO GET YOU OUT.
THEN GET HELP.
Okay… so if family need helping out you MIGHT go back… BUT would it be better to make sure the firecrew can see where to come to and know who/how many need help… DON’T MAKE YOURSELF A CASUALTY… DON’T GIVE THEM MORE TO DO.
SO, if it’s your Challenger… make plans to go to the local hobby shop when your insurance comes through.
Not insured? Okay, so you took a gamble… DON’T GAMBLE WITH YOUR LIFE.

I’m not going to go into detail about extinguisher use… your designs may vary from ours… get training locally…. BUT…

Simple Rules:-

DON’T USE WATER ON LIVE ELECTRICITY
DON’T LET FIRE GET BETWEEN YOU AND YOUR EXIT
DON’T LET SMOKE GET BETWEEM YOU AND YOUR EXIT…
• THIS IS DIFFERENT… AND MORE DANGEROUS… SMOKE CAN RISE TO THE CEILING, GO OVER YOU UN-NOTICED AND COME DOWN BEHIND YOU …TRAPPING YOU.
FOR SMOKE GET DOWN LOW AND KEEP LOW
IF CLOTHES ARE ALIGHT…DROP AND ROLL…
COOL BURNS AS SOON AS SAFE TO DO SO
GET OUT OF ANY SPACE AN EXTINGUISHER HAS BEEN DISCHARGED IN… WHEN YOU KNOW IT’S SAFE VENTILATE THE SPACE THOROUGHLY.

REMEMBER… IT’S BETTER TO DIAL 911 THAN HAVE THE CORONER CALL.