Does running as DCC "Engine Zero" hurt a locomotive?

[MisterBeasley]

I bought a new Proto 2000 SW-1 a month or so ago, but I've been patiently waiting for my LHS to get the right decoder in for it. Meanwhile, I run it for a while (10-15 minutes, maybe) every day, just because I like to see it run. It seems like it's running slower now than it did new, but that may be my imagination.

I've heard vague warnings about running and particularly idling non-decoder-equipped engines on DCC. I don't idle much, but I like a bit of running, since it's the only working freight locomotive in my stable at the moment.

So, am I damaging my engine? I can do scenery or wiring for a couple of weeks if I have to. Thanks.

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MisterBeasley
I've heard vague warnings about running and particularly idling non-decoder-equipped engines on DCC. I don't idle much, but I like a bit of running, since it's the only working freight locomotive in my stable at the moment.

So, am I damaging my engine?

In theory with normal operation the only way a motor could be damaged would be that the changing polarity of the DCC signal could potentially demagnetize, or at least weaken its permanent magnets. Some sorts of motors are more susceptible to this than others.

Then there are things like this:
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=44047

I don't know if slower speeds is a sign of weakened magnets or not. I would be more concerned if it couldn't pull as much. I don't know if this is damaging your specific locomotive or not. While I have run many channel zero locomotives the buzzing always makes me feel uneasy about it. Personally, I would wait for the decoder.

[JohnT14808]

I have not had a problem with my IHC 4-6-4 Hudson as of yet. I ran the crap out of it during our County Fair and it chugged right along. { It LQQKED MARVELOUS!!} We did do a lot of train switching, so it would run for 45 minutes, then sit on a dead siding until we brought it out again. I make sure I park it on a siding where the power can be turned off, so all electrical contact is off to the engine.[:D]

[retsignalmtr]

running the locomotive on dcc by zero stretching 00 should not damage the motor as long as you remove it from the rails when not running it with the dcc power on or put it on a track that you can shut off the power to. i had a nondecoder equiped n scale atlas gp7 running on dcc and doing some switching while i was also running a decoder equiped train. i stopped the gp7 on a siding to let the other train pass and then forgot about the gp7 for a while. when i went to move it again it wouldn't move at all. it had gotten so warm the motor had siezed up and wouldn't turn. i removed it from the rails and when it cooled down it ran ok. also a nondecoder locomotive stopped for a while with the power on will creep along the track a little at a time. i found that out when another loco creeped along and almost fell off my layout while my bridge module between layout sections was out. also my cat seems to be attracted to the sound that my nondecoder equiped locos make.

[cacole]

Running a non-DCC equipped locomotive on address 00 has been controversial ever since the NMRA released their DCC Standards and Recommended Practices allowing this to be done.

A friend of mine destroyed a motor by doing that, and I would never personally do it. Originally, decoders were in the price range of $75 each; today, you can get a TCS decoder for $15, so I would not consider the risk of destroying a motor in order to save the cost of a decoder.

FInding a replacement motor may prove to be very expensive and difficult, thereby turning your locomotive into an expensive paperweight.

In my opinion, the NMRA should never have written this "feature" into the DCC standards.

[rrinker]

Do it all the time, as my father in law has too many locos to DCC all at once - a) I don't have the time to do them all and B) even with $12 decoders, it's too expensive to do 100 locos at a time.
Never had a problem - the key is to RUN the loco, not just let it sit there. While sitting there, it is creating the most heat. When the motor is spinning, there is airflow around the armature, plus some of the energy is being converted into work to move the loco, it's not all being released as heat.
Do NOT under any circumstances try this with a coreless motor. Even older decoders could damage a coreless motor - those without 'supersonic' or 'silent running' drives.
Big heavy motors - those are practically indestructible. It took the pulses of DCC address 00 to finally free up and get my father in law's Bowser T1 running long enough to break it in, a simple straight DC pack would barely budge it.
I've run everything from Athearn BB to Proto2000 to various makes of brass with absolutely no problem, even after repeated laps around the laypout the motors never felt warmer than running on regular DC - but again, they were ALWAYS moving, if I stopped the loco for any reason, I turn off track power, or at least remove the loco from the track.

--Randy

[jnichols]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cacole

A friend of mine destroyed a motor by doing that, and I would never personally do it.

It was probably a coreless motor that was destroyed, and it was probably a combination of things that aided the demise of the motor. I've been using DCC for a long time now, and still have many N scale locomotives that are not converted that are run routinely on my DCC equipped layout. Some of these have over 50 hours of run time in this environment with no adverse effects to report.

QUOTE: In my opinion, the NMRA should never have written this "feature" into the DCC standards.

Regardless of your feelings regarding the zero stretching feature, for many N and Nn3 modelers (myslef included), it is the only way to run many of the locomotives where a decoder installation simply isn't an option... [;)]

Jeff

[jfugate]

Although it probably won't hurt the motor as long as you don't do it for more than an hour or so at a time, it's not an especially good way to run locos on a DCC system.

At $15 for fleet decoders these days, I don't even bother running a loco without a decoder any more. The speed control is not that great, and the loco makes wierd harmonic sounds as you work the throttle.

[Anonymous]

Just thought I would pop in for a quick visit tonight, ahhhh, as for this question, I've personnelly destroyed not one but two vintage "Atlas motors" doing just this very thing. I would never do it again under any circumstances for any length of time. I will at some point, have to replace these motors and I prefer to replace them with the same vintage motors as those that burned up, just my preferance.

[rrinker]

Atlas/Roco or Atlas/Kato? Because I've run both without decoders and have had no problems thus far. But as I've always siad, I NEVER let any Dc loco just sit there and buzz. It's always moving. A few laps around and I'll check the motor to see if it's getting warm.

--Randy

[Anonymous]

This is straight from Dave at Digitrax: "A DCC Locomotive on a DCC track can remain idle on a powered track indefinately, with no ill effects." "A DC locomotive idled on a DCC track on a zero address could possibly eventually burn up the motor and or brushes." He also went to say that running strictly DCC, there is no reason whatsoever to isolate any track sections for idle locomotives. He did say that it would need to be done for the DC locos, of course. My view is this: If you're going to run DC, run DC. If you're going to run DCC, run DCC.

[BRVRR]

I run DC locos on address "00" a lot. Mostly small Bachmann steamers, but I have run Athearn BB and Spectrum steamers without a problem. I never let the loco just 'sit' and always remove it or isolate it when finished. Haven't burned one up yet.

[Anonymous]

You probably won't.

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRVRR

I run DC locos on address "00" a lot. Mostly small Bachmann steamers, but I have run Athearn BB and Spectrum steamers without a problem. I never let the loco just 'sit' and always remove it or isolate it when finished. Haven't burned one up yet.

[Anonymous]

I test engines on 00 before i convert them, but never more than just a test. Not only is there a risk of burning up a motor, if you are running several other trains with decoders my experience (on digitrax anyway) is that things can get a little wierd. Just wait for the decoder.