retaining wall?

[cheese3]

I am going to put in a retaining wall by one of my tunnels and I was thinking about getting a couple flat cars, taking the trucks off and using them for the wall. I think it will make an interesting scene. What do you all think?

[CNJ831]

It's unlikely that the prototype would ever do this as overall strength would be lacking. A more conventional approach would certainly look better (stone, concrete, heavy timber/cribbing, etc.) and be more believable.

CNJ831

[cacole]

I've seen instances where railroads that were really strapped for cash used flatcars as bridges, or turned them up on edge as windbreaks or snow barriers, but never as a tunnel entrance retaining wall -- but that's not saying it hasn't been tried.

No one alive today can say for a fact that it has never been done, because no one has traveled the world over and seen every tunnel that was ever built, so if your model railroad is a freelance line, do it, and no one can authoritatively say you're wrong.

[Anonymous]

Are you looking to scratchbuild it? If so, why not try using some Campbells ties and build it? They are much cheaper then using some flat cars. I don't recall, but what era are you doing?

[jrbarney]

Here's a link to the posting that may have inspired Cheese3:
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=39112
Apparently the Rio Grande didn't use them next to a tunnel, but they did provide the prototype for a flat car retaining wall. I think he should take off the bolsters
and brake gear, but if he has flats to spare or can pick them up at a swap meet why not use them to add interest ?
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[Anonymous]

They say there is a prototype for everything. That would be a neat project, you would want to definately weather the deck a lot.

[ARTHILL]

cheese3 you are full of cool ideas. Post a pic and I may copy that.

[cheese3]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jrbarney

Here's a link to the posting that may have inspired Cheese3:
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=39112
Apparently the Rio Grande didn't use them next to a tunnel, but they did provide the prototype for a flat car retaining wall. I think he should take off the bolsters
and brake gear, but if he has flats to spare or can pick them up at a swap meet why not use them to add interest ?
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

yup thats where the idea came from, but i had forgotten all about that thread

[csmith9474]

Cheese,
If you would like larger photos, or additional photos, let me know I can get that to you. I can send you the pics directly via e-mail if you want a larger more detailed pic, or I can go get additional photos of that "retaining wall". It is just a short drive and walk from the house, not that I need another excuse to railfan.[:D]

Smitty

[cheese3]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csmith9474

Cheese,
If you would like larger photos, or additional photos, let me know I can get that to you. I can send you the pics directly via e-mail if you want a larger more detailed pic, or I can go get additional photos of that "retaining wall". It is just a short drive and walk from the house, not that I need another excuse to railfan.[:D]

Smitty

any photos are welcome but if you need an excuse to go railfanning you can take some more pics, but you dont have to if you dont want to.

[selector]

Looks like you got the go-ahead! I think that many, if not all, short lines had financial woes at times in their histories, and it was the job of some paid staff to find ways to keep 'er runnin'. Maybe a badly damaged flat-car could form the frame or basis for all or part of a retaining wall? Sure, if it works, why not.

Good for you for taking this on, Cheese.

[CNJ831]

Not being anchored into the hillside (as is normal with a retaining wall) results in very little strength to hold back dirt and stone. The location in the photos must be pretty stable to begin with since the decking of various cars have rotted away without much soil movement.

In the case of flat cars used as a wingwall near a tunnel portal, the cut or hillside would likely stand many times higher than the little hill in the photos. Regardless of the terrain's angle of repose, its base could never be safely restrained by a simple flat car (or cars) placed on its side. A railroad would never create such a potentially dangerous failure point as this at the mouth of a tunnel.

CNJ831

[cheese3]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831
Regardless of the terrain's angle of repose, its base could never be safely restrained by a simple flat car (or cars) placed on its side. A railroad would never create such a potentially dangerous failure point as this at the mouth of a tunnel.

CNJ831

This may be true but in my little world of the A.T.lines it will work just fine[:D]

[TrainFreak409]

Why didn't I see this earlier?

Adam, will you be using a wood decked car, or a steel flat car?

I would think that for a tunnel wing wall, steel should be used. That would hold a greater amount of weight, and create a safer environment. If they turn out to be too low, you could always stack them. And then you could staircase them from the beginning of the hill to the tunnel, using one, and then stack two next to that, and then stack three next to that, and...

Oh great, thanks a lot, now you've got me thinking about my freelance line.[:D][:p]

[cheese3]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TrainFreak409

Adam, will you be using a wood decked car, or a steel flat car?

I haven't really thought of that, I guess I will use steel. Today I was scoping out some things with a wood one. I think It will work out fine!

[Anonymous]

lay the Flat car at an angle. that will give it some extra stregnth. and maybe add some thick posts there too.

[selector]

If possible, the road crew would try to drive some pilings into the earth right in front of the flatcar. They would add tremendous strength and the flatcar the retention.

[Pennsy58]

Remembering from years ago, it was not that uncommon here in Pa for railroads to cut up hopper cars and use the sides for retaining walls. Along river edges when flooding started to wash out the edge of the right of way they would push old hoppers or gondolas over the hill and fill them with dirt etc making and instant wall. You can still find coal and stone yards near me that have hopper side panels braced up by I beams to hold the different sizes of stone in bins.