Buzzzzzzz.....

[jacon12]

What causes my new BLI Class A 2-6-6-4's motor to buzz when in reverse? It doesn't do it in forward, only reverse (unless its so low I can't hear it). Is it a cause for concern?
Jarrell

[cacole]

Are you running it on DC or DCC?

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cacole

Are you running it on DC or DCC?

Sorry I didn't say, Cacole. I'm running it dcc.
Jarrell

[cacole]

When running on DCC, a buzz from the motor is usually caused by the DCC signal frequency itself interacting with the motor. You can (should be able to) eliminate this by changing the frequency of the signal that goes from the decoder to the motor, but I don't know offhand if the QSI sound decoder offers this option.

Unless someone else chimes in with the information, you'll need to consult the Brodway Limited QSI decoder documentation looking for phrases like "quiet drive" or "dither."

If I can find anything in the QSI documentation I'll let you know -- but first, I need to download it.

------------------------

Well, I just read through the entire QSI decoder manual that I downloaded from the Broadway Limited site, and I could see no CV to set the decoder's motor frequency.

Unless you run your locomotive in reverse more than you do in the forward direction, I wouldn't worry about the buzzing causing any harm to the locomotive. Just don't leave it sitting on the track for an extended period of time with the DCC command station set in reverse, and you should be okay.

[rrinker]

I'm going to guess it's more of a gear lash issue than a motor drive problem, all three QSI locos I run are fairly quiet, definitely no lack of 'silent drive' type of buzzing - the M1a in particular is TOTALLY silent (well, after I lubed the side rods which squeaked a little) and considering it cost a grand total of $129, was MORE than worth the price. The sound is awesome - but even with the sound OFF (F8) it's a great model.

Make sure the loco is lubricated per the instructions, and give it some time to break in. It should quiet down.

--Randy

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cacole

When running on DCC, a buzz from the motor is usually caused by the DCC signal frequency itself interacting with the motor. You can (should be able to) eliminate this by changing the frequency of the signal that goes from the decoder to the motor, but I don't know offhand if the QSI sound decoder offers this option.

Unless someone else chimes in with the information, you'll need to consult the Brodway Limited QSI decoder documentation looking for phrases like "quiet drive" or "dither."

If I can find anything in the QSI documentation I'll let you know -- but first, I need to download it.

------------------------

Well, I just read through the entire QSI decoder manual that I downloaded from the Broadway Limited site, and I could see no CV to set the decoder's motor frequency.

Unless you run your locomotive in reverse more than you do in the forward direction, I wouldn't worry about the buzzing causing any harm to the locomotive. Just don't leave it sitting on the track for an extended period of time with the DCC command station set in reverse, and you should be okay.

thank you for looking that up for me. I don't run it in reverse very much and I'll remember to not leave it in reverse for long periods.
Thanks!
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

I'm going to guess it's more of a gear lash issue than a motor drive problem, all three QSI locos I run are fairly quiet, definitely no lack of 'silent drive' type of buzzing - the M1a in particular is TOTALLY silent (well, after I lubed the side rods which squeaked a little) and considering it cost a grand total of $129, was MORE than worth the price. The sound is awesome - but even with the sound OFF (F8) it's a great model.

Make sure the loco is lubricated per the instructions, and give it some time to break in. It should quiet down.

--Randy

Randy, this one is quiet as a mouse in forward also. Seems to be a really nice engine and yes the sound is awesome. I've lubed the side rods but the instruction book said that the insides had already been lubricated. What type grease do you use in the worm gear box? It may need some anyway.
If it gets to bothering me anymore I'll give BLI a call and see what they say.
Thanks for the input!
Jarrell

[rrinker]

Labelle sells a nifty 3-pack package of lube that should cover just about anything. Comes with good recommendations on what to use where, as well. To that I added a bottle of their powdered teflon lube - those 4 cover everything I do.
If it runs quiet in forward - it's definitely somehting rubbing whent he motor and gear train are loaded in the opposite direction - could be the motor shaft bearings ont he motor itself, or a siderod sticking, or the worm gear thrust washers (remembering that the mechanism is similar to a typical diesel with a central motor and a pair of gear towers). I had a P2K GP-7 that started squealing badly - but only in 1 direction - found a missing washer on one side of one of the worm gears, replaced that, and no more squeak.

--Randy

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

Labelle sells a nifty 3-pack package of lube that should cover just about anything. Comes with good recommendations on what to use where, as well. To that I added a bottle of their powdered teflon lube - those 4 cover everything I do.
If it runs quiet in forward - it's definitely somehting rubbing whent he motor and gear train are loaded in the opposite direction - could be the motor shaft bearings ont he motor itself, or a siderod sticking, or the worm gear thrust washers (remembering that the mechanism is similar to a typical diesel with a central motor and a pair of gear towers). I had a P2K GP-7 that started squealing badly - but only in 1 direction - found a missing washer on one side of one of the worm gears, replaced that, and no more squeak.

--Randy

Ok thanks Randy. I'll look for the LeBelle products. I've checked the side rods and lubed them so it must be the other. This all reminds me I've got to get the warranty card mailed off for it.
Jarrell

[NZRMac]

Hey Jarrell, my class J 4-8-4 has the same noise in reverse, it's a gear lash problem as Randy said. I've relubed and run it in reverse for and hour or too and it's quieter than it was, I guess more run time will tell if it works.

Edit: My BLI SD40-2's were noisey in reverse, on advise from Jimmy at BLI, I completely stripped down the gearboxes and cleaned all the grease out.

I then toothpasted the whole assembly and reassembled and ran them for awhile, the pair of them are very nice now. With the sound off you can hardly hear them.

I'm going to try the J as well.

Ken.

[selector]

Good tip to pass on, Ken. Jarrell, my 4-6-4 is also noisy in reverse, and when I commented to BLI, the response was sort of like, "The Korean drive trains are often noisy in one direction." I think what was left unsaid was, "Get over it." [V]Now that I have about two hours of running on it, it does seem quieter.

[jacon12]

Well, you know how we humans are, we always feel better when other people are in the same boat with us. Just hate paddling alone I guess.
Ken and Selector, I appreciate it. I think my little P2K 2000 GP-9 spoiled me. That has got to be the best running little devil out there. Out there=my railroad... [:D]
Jarrell

[selector]

Yes, but once I converted my P2K 0-6-0 to DCC, it growled like a lion! I'm using the Soundtrax 100LC. No amount of tinkering with the modulation has improved it much. [V]

[NZRMac]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jacon12

I think my little P2K 2000 GP-9 spoiled me. That has got to be the best running little devil out there. Jarrell

Yup I have a P2K 2-8-8-2 I have to leave the sound on so I know where she is on the layout!!

Ken.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by NZRMac



I then toothpasted the whole assembly and reassembled and ran them for awhile, the pair of them are very nice now. With the sound off you can hardly hear them.
Ken.

There is a trick in firearms in which you put toothpaste in the action to smooth it out. It is a mild abrasive. Obviously, you want to clean that out and lube it once it works the way you want. Is that it? Could you describe what you do with locos?

[selector]

Mouse, you take the covers off the gearbox assembly and remove as much of the grease as possible. Randy and others seem to find that they are often over-greased, anyway, and often run quieter with just a light lube. Anyway, once you have the worm and mating gear clean, put some toothpaste (Pearl Drops are supposed to be ideal), on the worm (just enough for a light coat), and reassemble it all. You can leave the loco superstructure off, but you run it forwards and back wards for up to an hour (I'd start with 20 minutes of solid running) to smoothen the surfaces...after all, this is not fine machining. Then, clean very thoroughly, with a last wipe of isopropyl alcohol (it is hydroscopic..absorbs water, the base of the toothpaste, natch). Then a light lube with an appropriate grease, and put the whole thing back together. Yer done!

[rrinker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

Yes, but once I converted my P2K 0-6-0 to DCC, it growled like a lion! I'm using the Soundtrax 100LC. No amount of tinkering with the modulation has improved it much. [V]

Nothing you can do there - the Soundtraxx motor drives are NOT silent running, and will cause the 'growling' in many motors. The new Tsunami will have silent drive. Doesn't help much for those who bought the older ones. That's also a good reason people bought the Soundtraxx sound-only decoders, and used a good brand of motor decoder.

--Randy

[rrinker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

QUOTE: Originally posted by NZRMac



I then toothpasted the whole assembly and reassembled and ran them for awhile, the pair of them are very nice now. With the sound off you can hardly hear them.
Ken.

There is a trick in firearms in which you put toothpaste in the action to smooth it out. It is a mild abrasive. Obviously, you want to clean that out and lube it once it works the way you want. Is that it? Could you describe what you do with locos?

Works good in loco gear trains too. I did it when I installed an Ernst low-speed drive in an Athearn switcher. Ran toothpaste in the gears for an hour or so in each direction, then completely cleaned it out and lubed with proper Labelle lubricants. The trucks with all gears minus the worm would ROLL on a piece of glass, not skid. Outside of the characteristic Athearn motor noise, it was completely silent.
Pearl Drops tooth polish is often recommended over plain toothpaste, as it is even more abrasive.

--Randy