Bachman DCC

[Anonymous]

piont taken . anyone had any experience with the Bachman DCC system

[Anonymous]

[V]I have had a bad exerience with anything Bachman. I had a 0-6-0 that never has run well. And the freight cars I have are pretty useless. No matter how much better their Spectrum line is supossed to be I won't buy it, if you can't make something medium priced work. I'm going to spend more money and you say it will work? I have not tried much of their stuff so don't take my word for it.
James[C):-)]

[Anonymous]

Lotus098 says it all.......
The only good thing botchman offers is a warranty and you WILL need it eventually!
I would rather have ANYTHING but a botchman!!!!
If that's you can afford, you'll be much happier in another hobby.
gtr

[jnichols]

Drum roll please... I actually like this little bugger... [:D]

Here's the skinny. I picked a brand new one up off of ebay for $65.00, just to play around with it. This is the closest product I've seen yet for the "I don't want to understand a DCC system, but I want a DCC system" guy I've seen so far. There are some things to consider however...

First, the system is designed to be very affordable, and very easy to use. This means lots of limitations and no upgradability.

Second, running trains is sort of an art form with this guy, although a fun art form. Think Digitrax Zephyr with no LCD display and you are close... [;)]

Third, programming does not exist. Don't expect to setup crazy speed curves, advanced consist lighting effects and so on. You setup the address, you run trains.

Fourth, the system is not for everyone. This product is aimed at people who do not want to understand DCC. It is as straight forward a product as I've seen, and will not appeal to people who want to truly understand DCC and unlock all, or even some of it's potential.

With these things in mind, again I give the product two thumbs up! Unlike the Prodigy Advance (a product I really don't care for much), this doesn't pretend to be a grown up DCC system in either price or features, it's all about having fun while taking baby steps into the huge world of DCC. Besides, even if you buy it and don't like it, it's $65.00, sell it back on ebay and carry on.

[tstage]

3155944,

I'm going to side with jnichols on this. The Bachmann EZ Command system is what it is: an basic, inexpensive, no frills, DCC system. Like jnichols, I picked mine up for $53 - about 1/2 MSRP. Unlike jnichols, I AM interested in knowing more about DCC. I wanted an inexpensive way to try out DCC without forking out a lot of money initially. I use it on my 4 x 8' layout and it has performed for me well. Although not the ideal, it can run your layout with only two wires.

True, you can't tweak the momemtum or the starting speeds with the Bachman. About all you can do is to program/change the address, turn lights on and off, and maybe toot the horn, if your locomotive has a sound decoder. I don't consider it a waste of money. I was able to buy the EZ Command system and buy and install two decoders for my locomotives for under $100.

Will I always stick with the Bachmann? No. At some time down the road, I'll upgrade to a more sophisticated DCC system, where I can play around with the CV's, or use my old Pentium II to program the decoder. For now, I'm content with what I have.

3155944, if you're interested in DCC and want to get your "feet wet", and you can knab one for at least 1/2 price, I'd encourage you to consider getting a Bachmann EZ Command. Keep in mind, the EZ Command only has 1 amp of power, so you will only be able to use it on an HO or N layout.

Tom

[jnichols]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

3155944,

Unlike jnichols, I AM interested in knowing more about DCC.

Tom

Tom,

I actually meant that post to be for someone from that perspective, I didn't mean to infer that I didn't understand the technology, or didn't want to know more. I have owned virtually every DCC system sans a Zimo, and currently use a Digitrax Super Chief. I have written several development modules for the JMRI software suite for use with my Digitrax Super Chief, and have also written a 1 to 1 comm interface so that I can use my MTH DCS system to control locomotives on my DCC layouts.

Fun stuff indeed!

[tstage]

jnichols.

I'd like to apologize for my inference. I should have worded it better because it wasn't my intention to infer there you were one of 'those" who weren't interested in learning more. After rereading your 4th point again, I understand where you are coming from. Sorry about that. [:(]

Tom

[jnichols]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

jnichols.

I'd like to apologize for my inference.

Tom

Tom,

No problem and thanks. I really don't take things on the forums too seriously (the whole sticks and stones thing... ;). I'm just glad someone sided with me, I've been having my butt handed to me concerning my posts on the MTH topics... [;)]

Take care and enjoy!

[pcarrell]

I have to agree with the concensus on this one.

It truely is a "one trick pony".

But it does that trick as promised.

And I also must say that while I too have owned my fair share of botchman's in the past, I have their Spectrum 2-8-0 and 4-8-2 in N scale and they are excellent runners (and pullers). Some of the older stuff though is only good for yard queens.

[davekelly]

jnichols and Tom have hit the nail on the head. While the Bachmann system may not have all the bells and whistles of the higher end systems, that in itself doesn't make it a bad system. The Bachmann unit is definately targeted for a specific price point and has some limitations in order to reach that price point. For my plunge into DCC the Bachmann is very tempting. I can go with the Bachmann and equip all my locs with decoders for the same outlay as one of the high end systems and only one decoder. The compatibility of the decoders will allow me to switch to Digitraz or Lenz (or whatever) down the road if I want the bells and whistles and my engines will be already good to go.

Of course the neatest thing is that there are so many systems to choose from. Each has its pros and cons, but I don't think there is a "bad" system out there. Systems that are inappropriate for what some folks want - yes there are, but no truly bad systems in my opinion.

[RMax1]

I wanted to see what all the noise was about in DCC so I bought the Bachmann to get my feet wet. It was around $90 with loco. It works as advertised and allows a person to get a basic understanding of some of the things you can do with DCC. It is not for everyone. If you are looking for something just to try out and play with for a while without spending tons of money this may be what you want to look at.. I've run 3 engines at the same time on it with no problems 2 Proto 2000 E's and the Bachmann GP40. I've been very happy so far. I also have had some hit and miss issues with Bachmann products but this has been very good. One of my biggest fears about DCC was figuring out how things worked and what I actually wanted. The Bachmann system got me into DCC and lets me at least figure out what is what and what I want.

RMax1

[Anonymous]

Another inexpensive but a little more versitile DCC system is the Atlas Master DCC. I have a shelf switching layout with this system and it works great for me.

Bob DeWoody

[nfmisso]

Both the Atlas and Bachmann's DCC offering are Lenz. Lenz is the inventor of DCC.

Jim and Tom are spot-on on this item.

[Anonymous]

coupla questions for tstage et al. ?#1:
you say that the ezcommand will not let you tweak momentum and/or the starting speed. let's say your starting speed in the loco itself is nice, as manufactured, without decoder installed. specifically, the life-like gp-20's in N scale. Now drop a decoder into it, and run it with the Bachmann. Will this make the starting speed function worse than with regular DC? Or will the starting speed still be as good as the OEM? ?#2: the pictures of the ezcommand that i've seen in ads, show only one throttle knob. let's say i want to control 3 locos, each with it's own speed, braking and momentum, and sometimes within the same electrical block, on the same track. I definitely have no interest in having the other two locos just do boring uncontrolled loops, with no actual control. and i don't want them to come to abrupt emergency stops either. can i take two regular DC cab control walkaround units on cabled tethers, and hook them up with this basic DCC system, so that i can have control of all 3 locos, and still have DCC on all 3? Or am i mixing apples with oranges? if my question isn't clear, it's because the fledgling DCC industry is behaving exactly as the purveyors of quadrophonic sound did 40-odd years ago: make things difficult to understand, use jargon to stun your prey, then take the money and run.... hell of a way to run a railroad...that's why i appreciate these unbiased forums run by and for users.

[Don Gibson]

AGREEMENT HERE - and well stated.

The BACHMANN is a limited, 'entry level' (beginner's) system, and can be easily sold to other beginner's on EBay when one outgrow's it.

Probably the best thing going for it is it's made by someone else.

[pcarrell]

If I may,...

1) You shouldn't notice any difference in performance, at least I haven't noticed any. You are correct in that you cannot change the loco's characteristics with this system but if a friend has a system that this can be done on then the programming changes that are done on his system will be recognized by the Bachmann system.

2) First, there are no blocks in DCC. Power goes to all the tracks all the time, unless you shut a track off for some reason such as testing or storing a loco without a decoder or something like that.

Second, apples and oranges really. The EZ Command allows the running of multiple loco's at one time by switching control from one to the other. You physically only have control of one at a time. Most DCC systems that I've seen are like this, with the Digitrax system being the most obvious exception (sort of). Some of their contollers have two knobs on them, but you only have control of one at a time. When you move from one knob to the other the system automatically switches control from one loco to the other for you. It's transparent to the user, but it's still only one at a time technically.

As to the EZ Command and it's ability to control of more then one loco at a time, when you switch from one loco to another, the first continues on it's way with no interruption. When you switch back to it the loco does nothing new until you move the control knob. This is to lessen sudden changes in speed and so forth.

The system will handle 9 DCC loco's and 1 DC loco maximum. Bachmann is going to release a new add on throttle soon that will be DC only and this will also make the 10th button on the original power pack be DCC. The end result is 10 DCC loco's onthe original power pack and 1 DC (still no "blocks" needed) on the add on throttle.

Some functions are available for use on the EZ Command unit such as horns, bells, whistles, and lights, but it is somewhat limited.

Other improvments are in the works also, such as the ability to control stationary controllers. This will give you the ability to throw turnouts from the controller. I've heard of some other improvements as well, but I don't really remember what they are right now and I don't wi***o mislead, so on that note...

[tstage]

Choocher,

I think PCarrell probably covered everything well enough. I'll add a couple of other items but I'll have to do it later tonight...

Tom

[pcarrell]

tstage,

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to steal your thunder!

Forgive me?

[tstage]

pcarrell,

No forgiveness needed, my friend. I am by no means an expert on DCC. I appreciate your input and you did a great job of explaining things. I thought choochers "et al" might incorporate anyone who wanted to pipe in with an answer. No offense taken. [:)]

Tom

[kansaspacific1]

If you think you might want to expand later a used Zephyr for about the same money
might be a better buy. I was lucky to find one (Zephyr) for even less than the list on
the Bachmann (With a UT1 walkaround throttle thrown in.) The Zephyr will do more
as it stands (read program CVs) and is expandable.

If you do want a Bachmann, there seem to always be several on ebay. (Which would
imply that many people try them as an introductory system, and then move on to
something else.) Again, though it really depends on what YOU want. But finding
a good used "starter" system for about the same money might give you more bang
for the buck.

[tstage]

choocher,

Okay. As I stated before, I'm not sure if I can add anything more on what pcarrell already said, but....I'll throw in my two bits anyhow.

#1 - If your GP-20 runs well on DC, it should also run well on DCC. I have a P2K Alco S1 that runs as smooth as silk. On DC it "crawled" like a sloth. On DCC, it STILL crawls.



#2 - As you can see by the picture above, yes, the Bachmann has only one control knob. You can control from 2-3 decoder-equipped locomotives at a time. If you want to control a specific locomotive, you press the numbered button that is addressed to that locomotive. The LED (to the right of the button) will light up to tell you which locomotive you are sending the command signal to.

Now, if you already have a locomotive running on address 1 (say, it's circling the layout on the main line), and you press address 2 to start up locomotive #2, locomotive #1 will "ignore" whatever command you send to #2 and continue on it's merry way because you are only communicating with locomotive #2. Does that make sense?

If for some reason you need to change speeds to locomotive #1, all you have to do is press address 1 and you can speed up or slow down #1, while locomotive #2 continues on unchanged from the last command you just sent it. If you need to stop all the trains at once, all you have to do is press the red STOP button up in the left hand corner of the control unit. The Bachmann also comes with built-in protection and will shut down the command station (and stop all locomotives) if it detects a short.

As far as the flack over Bachmann's inability to run more than 2, or maybe 3 locomotives at any one time because of it's limited 1 amp maximum output of power. I don't know about the rest of you, but running 2 or 3 locomotives simultaneously (and at the SAME time) is enough locomotives for me to keep track all at once.

I also failed to mention before that, like other DCC systems, the Bachmann will allow you to run MU's (multiple units of locomotives) or consists. Again, you're still limited to the 1 amp maximum output of the command station. However, Bachmann says that they will be releasing a newer unit later this year, that has the capacity to accept their new 5 amp power booster. I don't know whether or not you'll be able to program CV's with these new units. There is some limited information that can be found at Bachmann's web site:

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/index.html

(See Item #'s 44907, 44908, 44909, and 44910)

Choocher, if you have the money and you KNOW you want DCC, fork out the extra $75-100 and get yourself a nice Digitrax Zephyr startup system. As kansaspacific1 stated, it is expandible and can grow as your layout grows. However, if you aren't sure, but you'd like to play around with DCC to see what it can do (albeit a "limited" test driving experience), the Bachmann is a nice "Toyotat Echo" for the price. Again, I'd only get one if you can find it heavily discounted.

Hope that's a help...

Tom

[Anonymous]

thanx, gentlemen (and ladies, if that be the case); your replies are extremely helpful. i forgot to throw in this codacil: i have a loop on one of my layouts, but i always run it as if it were one of my normal shelf switching layouts. I.E., unless i am testing a loco, i run everything at slow speeds, back and forth shunting. therefore, since i can't control 2 plus locos independently UNLESS i "loop" one at a steady speed, then the EZcommand doesn't seem to be useful to my style of rrd'g. and, unless i am misreading the replies, very few inexpensive dcc units will give me the control that i need. (shades of two-hand piano!!!) so i think i'll stick with the 2 separate dc power packs that i have, until a cheaper tethered walkaround (or radio control) comes on the market....WAIT UP!!! I just had a brainflash, thanks to the discussion!!! WHAT IF: i keep my block control, but split up the blocks so approximately half go to one loco, half to the other (or 3 general blocks with 3 locos und so weiter) and i get 2 or 3 SEPARATE Bachmann's??? and maybe a few DPDT toggles, to TRADE OFF current between blocks, so i can "switch crews" onto different blocks??? YIKES!!!

[pcarrell]

At that rate I would buy the Digitrax Zepher and get the DT400 throttle. Then you would have three throttles to play with and NO blocks. (Thats one of the biggest beauties of DCC, NO blocks! You run the trains, not the switches!) [:D] Then you could run your trains, read and write CV's (change settings on the decoders), and the handheld is backlit for night running.

That would be enough to keep you busy for a long time! [8D]