cheap mountains

[Anonymous]

i'm currently changing my layout, and i want to elevate the track with mountains. does anyone know a way to make them cheapy?

[chateauricher]

For the grade supporting your track, spend the money on WS inclines. They make calculating and building grades so much easier and are well worth the money.

As for the structure of the mountain itself ... A few suggestions...

scrap pieces of foam (from packaging) covered with plaster-soaked paper towels or newspaper;

a cardboard web-like framework supporting plaster-soaked paper towels or newspaper;

use bags of foam "peanuts" (1 cubic foot for $9.96 CAD; or 2 cubic feet for $14.92CAD at Staples; or free from work, school, etc.) to form a foundation, then cover with plaster-soaked paper towels or newspaper.

PS: I just thought of this... Considering the cost of the foam peanuts, use clean and empty softdrink bottles packed in the foam peanuts so you can mould the shape more easily. The bottles will take up volume so you'll need fewer foam peanuts. I would avoid using popcorn because, over time, it may go moldy or rot, attracting uninvited "guests".

[Anonymous]

Yes, I agree. Go the Woodland Scenics way, you can make different elevations easy with the inclines and risers, also making the mountains with foam insulation board, wet paper towels in plaster(or) A cardboard web with newspaper then use plaster cloth and "industrial papertowels" make great mountain scenery!!! I hope this helps.
TrainsRMe

[Anonymous]

thanks guys, where would you get the plaster? what type is it? is it the overpriced ws stuff?

i'll try the risers, i forgot about them, i've been using the atlas plastic concrete ones.

[selector]

If the WS plaster cloth is out of reach in any quantity, use paper towels soaked in hydrocal (more $), or the cheaper plaster of paris ( $3.50 @ Wal-mart). Be sure to add a couple of layers to the first layer for strength. Spray down the previous layers liberally with water before you lay on the next layer, or the dry underlayer will suck out most of the water from the not-yet-set layer you just placed, thus rendering it un-set, flakey and crumbly...no strength at all.

For the structure under the plaster layers, have you considered galvanized chicken-wire? It is not hugely expensive, easily shaped, and resuable if needed.

[chateauricher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by t3488g
thanks guys, where would you get the plaster? what type is it? is it the overpriced ws stuff?

I'd like to suggest plaster of paris; but something tells me its not quite the right stuff. [%-)] I could be wrong and plaster of paris is indeed ok to use. I'm sure someone else will be able to answer that question. (addendum: it seems Crandell answered the question about how appropriate plaster of paris is while I was writing this. [:)] )

You can find a 1kg box of Lepage Poly Plaster of Paris for about $3 CAD at Rona (I'm not sure if you have any Rona stores near you). However, Home Depot has a 10kg bag of Bondex Plaster of Paris for about $13 CAD. I am sure they both have other sizes and brands availabe in-store. Their web sites don't list very many options. You can try Canadian Tire, or other home renovation or hardware stores. Even Walmart, or Zellers might have some in their craft/hobby or hardware departments.

[simon1966]

Waste expanded polystyrene can quickly build up the core of the mountain. I wanted to use the stacked bluefoam method as well. I was able to get the foam I needed from a friend who had a lot of reasonable size scraps from a siding job. So my mountain substructure was free. I then tried to use a paper mache covering, but this did not adhere well to the foam. I purchased plaster cloth from hobby lobby for this. I also purchased a large sack of Gypsolite plaster from Home Depot. This one sack cost about $10 and will last for my entire layout.

[Fergmiester]

Cheap!? You can't get chealer than my method! You'll need the following: Hallmark wrapping paper, can of insulating foam and paint. How you crunch and fold the paper is up to you but here are some of my results. (Apply the foam in a thin layer of the back side of the paper to give it rigidity)




This picture uses two methods. The straight cliff (stone cut) to the right uses the wrapping paper and foam method and the centre part uses packing paper in a paper mache method using water and carpenters's glue (5:1) as the adhesive.



Since I've taken these pictures I've added another cliff, which promises to be better in detail and realism then these pics.
Fergie

[Anonymous]

I used Hydrocal. I got a 50 pound bag of it for 30$ (can) Trust me, you'll use more than 10 pounds if you are building anything more than a small hillside, espesialy if you plan to use molds for rock castings. Hydrocal is also stronger that plaster and won't crack as easily

[hminky]

Try floor leveler for plaster, it is available from pints to 25 lb bags and is similar to Hydrocal. I have pictures in my web article about using paver sand for ground cover at:

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/gravel/



Thank you if you visit
Harold

[howmus]

Another option for plaster. I use pre-mixed joint compound. Very cheap can be diliuted with water to whatever consistancy you need for diferent applications and is very cheap. It also is able to be worked for a long time (an hour or two) The only drawback that I have found is that if you are going to use a wash (or stain), it does not take quite as well as hydrocal and may require more coats. It paints beautifully (that's what it is made for). I have used the wadded up newspaper covered with plaster soaked brown paper towels and built up with brushed on diluted joint compound for years with good success. I am starting to use the foam but still prefer to use plaster cloth over the foam as I find it easier to get the texture and look that I want that way.

[Pruitt]

I have to disagree with the folks who say to use the Woodland Scenics risers and inclines, unless you have money to burn! Spending $5.50 for two feet of incline or riser doesn't strike me as cost effective at all when you can do the same thing for only pennies if you're willing to put out a little effort to calculate your own grades (a very simple thing to do, by the way).

Use the old tried-and-true scrapwood-riser-under-the-roadbed method; it's much cheaper!

[howmus]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brunton

I have to disagree with the folks who say to use the Woodland Scenics risers and inclines, unless you have money to burn! Spending $5.50 for two feet of incline or riser doesn't strike me as cost effective at all when you can do the same thing for only pennies if you're willing to put out a little effort to calculate your own grades (a very simple thing to do, by the way).

Use the old tried-and-true scrapwwod-riser-under-the-roadbed method; it's much cheaper!

Absolutely!!!!

[ARTHILL]

The word cheap is relative. The cheapist is used aluminum screen from a hardware store covered with plaster on paper towels from any men's room. The plaster costs a little, everything else is free. I now have a little more money and don't use that way any more. It is harder. I am trying foam with no plaster covering. The early results are encouraging. If you can get the foam from building sights it is free. It is messy to cut with out a hot wire, which costs. If you try this use water based paint or you will disolve the foam (That makes a nice texture as well).

Art

[Fergmiester]

Here's some more "Thrifty" rock faces.


This is Hallmark wrapping paper (foil on one side paper on the other) Once crunched and shaped I prime the paper side with a flat white primer. This rock face hasn't been painted yet.


This is painted styrofoam shaped with knifes, saws, sand paper and what else is on hand. Before I painted it I gave it a wash of watered down plaster. At present I'm not pleased with the colour and will give it a coat of thin white to lighten it up then I'll give it a final lick of highly diluted India Ink.

Hminky: Wonderful job on your scenery!

Fergie

[SpaceMouse]

I'll go with the wood for risers method. I used 1x3 and a chop saw and nail gun to do 2 9' inclines with different grades in about an hour and a half. I can't see how Woodland Scenics is simpler.

AS for cheap mountains--compared to everything else about hobby, mountains, any way you make them, is the cheapest thing you can make.

[Anonymous]

thanks everyone! there are alot of good ideas here. i worked it out, and it's going to be a 4% grade that goes up to 3.5". i'm going to take some time and decide on what to do.

[Anonymous]

If you're going to have one rail cross over another in HO scale you could very well need MORE than 3 1/2" of rise. Example:

If you're going to cross using a tunnel / mountain you MUST include the total thickness of the rail, railbed, and support. In my case that was almost 2" of material. This wasn't a big deal over the long haul as I was planning on putting in a thru-bridge for the crossing, but for the short term I was wanting to just continue my benchwork and foam over the span. Well, doing THAT left me with just 2 1/2" of clearance. O.K. for "N", but WAY too low for HO.

I ended up replacing the combined 3/4" plywood & 1" foam with some 1/2" OSB by itself. This will work fine in the short term, and I'll get slightly more clearance when I build the bridge.

Mark in Utah

[Anonymous]

no tracks going over each other. i got a 4x8, there isn't much room ofr stuff like that. i'm going to have it leave the yard, go up an incline into a tunnel, then come out of the tunnel, over a bridge, then back down into the yard, around on a non-inclined inner circle, to where it started.

[tcf511]

I can't offer a lot of how to details on this but I saw an example of mountains made with ceiling tiles the other night at our train club. He had glued layers of ceiling tiles together and then just used a wire bru***o shape them. It was very realistic unpainted and I'm sure looked even better when finished. Has to be inexpensive and light weight. I'll see if I can get some photos of examples.

[chateauricher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse
I can't see how Woodland Scenics is simpler.

WS Inclines are simpler because there is no need to do any calculations.

While WS Inclines are for sure not the cheapest way of doing grades, they are the simplest; particularly if you are a beginner and/or not very good at doing mathematicalcalculations.

[jwar]

Visit local job sites where thier building homes. Some companys feel it cost effective to toss some lumber after a job, then to haul it to the home base, then reload and take it to another job site at a later date.

This is the stuff I have been given free of charge, they were pleased to not have to haul it off
3/4 ply sanded on one side, mostly 20 in by 8ft, about twenty, 1/4 to 1/2 boxes of drywall plaster, seems the drywall guyes donlt like to use an opened box the following day, scads of short 1/3 and 1/4 s mostly very straight. Asked a remodeler what he did with replaced window wire screens, collected more then I can use.

Of course one has to take the bad with the good, The badly warped ply made great shelves in the garage, as the 1 bys and other material I used to frame them straight were from other jobs.

About the only thing I bought for my first mountins were the staples for the screen and drywall screws.

[Budliner]

Broken strips of ceiling tile can put some rugged geology on your layout ...

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/rockfaces/

http://www.chattanoogadepot.com/stratified-rock.html


budliner

[Anonymous]

Guys, please don't suffer from math anxiety. (My wife's Ph.D. disertation was about math anxiety, because it's so common! Opposites do attract, because I flunked freshman high school algebra!) It's really EASY to figure grade percentages for your helixes, etc. You don't even have to know what you're doing. Trust me on this. Take your radius. For example, 24 inches. Simply double that radius and you get 48. In all cases, multiply that doubled figure by 3.14, and you will get the total inches around your circle. 3.14 X 48 is just a little more than 150 inches around. Now was that so hard? Nah! From there, 150 inches is easy to figure down to a little more than 12 feet. All you have to do is divide by 12, since you have 12 inches per foot. If you build a helix with a minumum radius of 18 inches, you'll get 36 (double the 18) times 3.14, or about 113 inches. Divide that by 12, and you'll have just under 9 and a half feet of track around the circle, so it will be a pretty steep grade in HO scale. A friend of mine's layout had such a grade one time, with lots of derailments of longer cars. Anyway, all of this is fun and easy to figure, as I hope you can see now. It's very easy to make it seem hard by simply using the word "math", especially since many of us haven't had to use math in our jobs. Relax, and you really can calculate this stuff. I should say "do" this stuff, since it's hardly even worthy of the word "calculate". [^] It makes armchair railroading a lot more fun.