A little over the edge at an open house. (rant)

[Anonymous]

I recently went to an open house not far from home and took the tour of a club's track. The layout was a two level figure eight with a duckunder. Effort was put into detailing, but not much, the club president explained that they were more interested in function over form. Whatever floats your boat I guess.
Anyhow, I am just a beginner and I told him what kind of equipment that I had and what I wanted to do with my layout.
The first thing he told me to do was to throw everything I had away "It's not even worth it to bother seliing it just toss it" and go down to the hobby shop and buy code X track, number Y turn outs and a Z DCC system.
He continued to tell me that if it is not brass an engine just probably is not worth my time and money.
By his guesstimate, I should drop about $1000 to get into the hobby and not to bother with it if I didn't .
And then after telling me all about how much the layout was worth and the clubs guidelines for letting new pieces onto the layout, He relentlessly tried to get me to agree to join his club!
A week later he mailed me another entry form.
Here is my reaction:
If it costs me a thousand dollars to do anything, I better have a money back warranty on how much fun I am gonna have.
No way am I gonna spend a thousand dollars on this hobby, total, ever!
DCC is cool, horn-hooks are not, I should be allowed to work into this hobby with out being pressured to go whole hog.
With his bull-headed look at how things should be, I am not suprised that the club only consists of him and ONE OTHER PERSON!
I will never go back to that club again.
If this hollier than thou idiot or any other lays into me again with a Hitler spawned, egotistical, communistic "do it my way or don't do it at all" attitude I am going to explain to them that they should read the bible again on excepting others, and then I'm gonna knock his dentures through the back of his head.
There is more than one way to tie a shoe, sure, some ways are better.

[twhite]

Capriguy: Don't let that experience sour you on either the hobby or the great majority of the people who enjoy it. As you said, that club consists of two people and from what I've read of your description, will probably continue to consist of ONLY two people!
Tom[xx(]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by capriguy

I recently went to an open house not far from home and took the tour of a club's track. The layout was a two level figure eight with a duckunder. Effort was put into detailing, but not much, the club president explained that they were more interested in function over form. Whatever floats your boat I guess.
Anyhow, I am just a beginner and I told him what kind of equipment that I had and what I wanted to do with my layout.
The first thing he told me to do was to throw everything I had away "It's not even worth it to bother seliing it just toss it" and go down to the hobby shop and buy code X track, number Y turn outs and a Z DCC system.
He continued to tell me that if it is not brass an engine just probably is not worth my time and money.
By his guesstimate, I should drop about $1000 to get into the hobby and not to bother with it if I didn't .
And then after telling me all about how much the layout was worth and the clubs guidelines for letting new pieces onto the layout, He relentlessly tried to get me to agree to join his club!
A week later he mailed me another entry form.
Here is my reaction:
If it costs me a thousand dollars to do anything, I better have a money back warranty on how much fun I am gonna have.
No way am I gonna spend a thousand dollars on this hobby, total, ever!
DCC is cool, horn-hooks are not, I should be allowed to work into this hobby with out being pressured to go whole hog.
With his bull-headed look at how things should be, I am not suprised that the club only consists of him and ONE OTHER PERSON!
I will never go back to that club again.
If this hollier than thou idiot or any other lays into me again with a Hitler spawned, egotistical, communistic "do it my way or don't do it at all" attitude I am going to explain to them that they should read the bible again on excepting others, and then I'm gonna knock his dentures through the back of his head.
There is more than one way to tie a shoe, sure, some ways are better.

you said it best in your post. "Whatever floats your boat. " Do what you like as long as it works for you. He wants your to be impressed at how much he spent. put thiim in your past and enjoy the hobby. This is a good example along with other posts that have been started lately on how som modelers are scaring away potentional modelers instead of encouraging them. Are we all a bunch of grumpy old men? I know I'm not, well one because i"m 22 years old, I'm willing to share my hobby with anyone and give them advice that fits what they want to do. Remember to give advice you have to listen first.
Andrew

[chateauricher]

Capriguy,

You'll be surprised by how easily you'll get to your $1000 limit in this hobby. It may take you a few years, but, mark my words, you'll get there eventually. Just spend what you can afford and enjoy the hobby the way you want.

By the way, for someone ranting on about how people should accept other people's opinions, you don't seem to be very accepting. The club's president was expressing his opinions; to which you are free to disagree. Granted, he probably was a tad too extremist; but he is free to be. Should he send you another entry form, return it with a kind word saying you are not interested in joining a club at this time, and thank him for his offer.

(Also, Hitler was a nationalist-socialist, not a comunist. Indeed, he imprisoned and exterminated communists along side Jews, the mentally ill, homosexuals, etc.)

[Anonymous]

Capriguy, I totally feel you on this one... I do understand that you can rack up expenses REALLY quickly in this hobby, especially if you're going with a very large layout, but don't let anyone tell you you can't do things cheaply and still have the same amount of fun! I've been involved in MANY different hobbies over the years, and believe me, guys like him are EVERYWHERE, and they all think they know everything, and no matter what you do, it's not good enough unless you do it the same way they did it. I've been involved in Jeep clubs, rc airplane clubs, kayaking, computers and gaming, and kayaking just in the last five years, and I can honestly say, there's one of him in every bunch. If I didn't do it exactly right, or if I wanted to make shortcuts in what I was doing in order to save time or money, and have just as much enjoyment as the next guy, they would pretty much tell me to give up on the hobby unless you want to do it 'right' (which happened to be THEIR way). Don't let it discourage you! This is one hobby I've learned is VERY forgiving when it comes to beginners, and the best part is, remember, it's your Model Railroad... you do what you want, and learn along the way! Amongst all his rantings, he may have given you some good advice too, but sometimes you just gotta learn it on your own.

Don't get discouraged! We've all faced that type of guy in one hobby or another!

[Anonymous]

It seems there are more horses' asses around than there are horses!

Ignore the idiot, and tell anyone interested in the hobby to steer clear of him.

People like him really give the hobby a bad name.

$1000.00 on the hobby? Just a drop in the bucket!

Have fun!

Bob Boudreau

[CNJ831]

Capriguy - while I frown on the layout guy's attitude and the manner in which he expressed his opinion to you, to be perfectly honest, if you think that "no way am I gonna spend $1000 on this hobby, total, ever" then you are indeed in the wrong hobby.

Although there are probably some who will attempt to argue otherwise, even a 4x8 of reasonable completeness, with just a moderate degree of detailing, and motive power/rolling stock one step above Atheran's BB in quality, can easily exceed a $3000 figure by quite a margin. Quality layouts of only modestly larger dimensions often go well beyond $10k and most of what you see in MR are in the $25k to $50k range.

Above all, you need to be realistic about this hobby's expensiveness, as it exists today, if you want to participate without any misgivings.

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

You are correct, the guy is an extreamest, Communest or Nazi or whatever the subject, you can't have a disscussion with an extreamest. See the thread about model railroaders being loners. It seems that with a lot of us either we can't stand being around people or people can't stand being around us. (That might depend on point of view as to which catagory we fall into. I think I am the former, others may say I am the latter)
It sounds like you did the right thing. Learn what you could from the situation and avoid the toxic personality afterward.

Keep a record, $1000 will go quicker than you realize.

[IRONROOSTER]

One of the neat things about this hobby is that you can do it by yourself or with and have lots of fun either way. I have found that the amount of money available over the years has varied depending on house, kids, salary, etc. Some years it was all I could do to renew magazine subscriptions and other years I was out buying a dozen hopper cars, locomotives, etc.. This year after 33 years in the hobby I bought my first brass engine. While you'll certainly exceed $1000 if you stay in the hobby
you can start for less. An engine, some cars, some track, couple of turnouts, power pack, 4x8 sheet of plywood across 2 saw horses (get 3/4"), and you're started. Probably cost $200 - $300. Then as you add buildings, roadbed, scenery, more track, etc. the cost will creep up on you until one day you sit back, start adding it all up, and find that you passed $1000 a long time ago. But hey, you've had a blast along the way.

Enjoy
Paul

[davekelly]

Hmmmm. Telling someone to read and follow the Bible about judging others but then bashing him in the head because he's a jerk. Something doesn't sound right here.

[freeway3]

quote: "No way am I gonna spend a thousand dollars on this hobby, total, ever!"

I would agree with CNJ831, you're probably in the wrong hobby. You don't need brass, DCC, QSI sound, a 40 x 60 foot room, etc... but you DO need track, turnouts, locomotives & rolling stock of a reasonable quality. There definately IS some real junk out there - if you start with junk, you will construct a railroad that is not a whole lot of fun to build or operate.

So I beleive you WILL and SHOULD spend more than a grand - but do it on your own timetable. Very few can afford to do everything at once. Don't let the money stop you from enjoying the hobby - but I guarantee, if you buy junk, you won't enjoy it!

(My .02 - I'll stay out of the whole Bible / Nazi / Commie thing...)

Ed

[MisterBeasley]

True, but not particularly precise, accounting for my railroad:

I've got boxes and boxes of 40-50-year-old stuff, some likely older than me. I will re-use limited amounts of old brass track for dis-used sidings, but mostly I'm buying all new track. I've bought some building kits, and a subway train and a trolley. Replacement Kadee's for all the horn-hooks. Tools, roadbed, paint, glue, hydrocal, rubber molds. Well, I figure I'm just shy of a kilo-dollar into this now, and I've got less than half my trackwork down, and I'm on my way to Home Depot for more foam today.

On the other hand, I've got all this old rolling stock. I'm taking great pride in restoring it to working condition. To your holier-than-thou club president, I'm fixing up junk. To me, I'm the good Doctor Frankenstein bringing back life to my old childhood friends. It truly is a hobby that can go in whatever direction you like. So, all aboard and we'll see you on the main line.

[BRAKIE]

All to sadly there are those that think you need DCC,top of the line engines and cars to enjoy the hobby..Well I will shout to my dying day this is not true..For years I used Athearn engines and cars and still do.I do have high dollar Atlas,Kato and P2K locomotives.But,know and understand this..My Athearns gives me the same enjoyment as my high dollar engines and cars..[:D][tup] Of course nobody needs DCC to run his/her trains.
My thoughts is to enjoy the hobby YOUR way and not worry what others may say or think.[:D]

[Anonymous]

The guy telling you to "toss out everything and buy brass" is a close minded individual, and this is not what I'd call him if confronted by him. However, it is very easy to drop $1000 to get into the hobby. You just don't have to buy brass, DCC and high end track to do it. And you don't have to buy brass to get really good quality in this day and age.

Trevor[:)]

[freeway3]

MisterBeasley,

Good point about fixing up the old stuff, this is to be commended. You can and will derive much pleasure & satisfaction from this. This does, however, and I think you will agree, take skill & (of course!) money. The end product will not be "junk".

I think the topic starter, though, is speaking of starting from square one, buying all new (to him, at least) stuff, whether at his LHS or online. I would try to steer someone in this situation toward a quality product, no, not brass or BLI or DCC, but certainly not low end "train set" quality.

Do it for under a grand? We agree, won't happen...

Ed

[steveblackledge]

this guy is a jerk so don't listen to him, it's just a hobby but some people take it to far. the guys on this forum will offer you better advice, just post a question and you will get an honest answer,

[Anonymous]

Unfortnately, if there is one single aspect of this great hobby of ours that will destroy it, it's the narrow minded arrogance that does exist in many, many clubs around this country. Wheather it be from rivet counters or from control freaks that are there for no other reason but to assert their self perceived power over every other member in the club, this arrogance and attitude can and does drive long standing members and new members away, never to return. I for one wouldn't join another club if you paid me. Twice was definately enough for me. I feel that those who are lucky enough to have a good club should stay with it, but those who don't, get out now before it destroys your enjoyment for the hobby, and what ever you do, don't ever look back, always look ahead.

[cheese3]

That guy sounds like a real jerk

[bwftex]

Every person has some value. If you take a moment to extract it they will most likely appreciate it and all of a sudden won't be quite so bad. He probably thinks he is giving you sound realistic advice from his own prospective. Find out what his experience is that gave him that perspective.

Ask him why he feels brass is the only way to go. More than likely he can give you quite a long list of why to him it is. Out of this you may find a reason that a brass model might be something you would consider or at least understand why some people may feel brass is the only option.

As far as the $1000 goes one can rack that up quick in this hobby and not even have a layout, brass models or DCC system. You certainly don't need much more than twenty or thirty dollars to get started though. Again ask him what he thinks you need and why. Find out the why. Often when a person is asked why he will qualify his statement with reasons that make sense. His reasons may not be valid for you but again you may see why he may have certain opinions.

Maybe he likes to feel superior to others. Let him feel that way. Ask some questions. Don't worry about what he thinks, care about what he knows. Ask him and he will tell you.

This guys ability to communicate in a tactful and diplomatic fashion is obviously minimal. It appears you sized him up quite well but didn't quite make a successful effort to help him do better. People like this are usually easy to control. Just get to their level and kick it down one notch in your questions. If they are way over your head tell them so and ask them to help you under stand. Acknowledge their response and ask another question. You may still never want to see a guy like this again but hopefully walked away with a few good ideas, bits of knowledge or possibly even little respect for him. If nothing was gained at all its hard to be ever be up set with some jerk you lead around like a puppy on a leash weather he’s a total moron or a rocket scientist.
Bruce

[tatans]

This column confirms my thoughts on the hobby, there are only 2 types of train hobbyists, you will notice that the suggestions to keep out if you are are not willing to spend big bucks come from people with lots of loot and can't fathom why you don't have lots of money too, then there are the rest of the people who actually make things and sometimes buy something used or scratchbuild and have a great deal of pleasure with this hobby. The goon at the open house does not surprise me at all, I've met too many of them.

[davekelly]

tatans,

You forget the third type. The one's that hate anyone that has the money to buy the expensive stuff and will describe why he/she likes the stuff even if done so in a very friendly way without any sort of snobbery. These folks also hate rivit counters even if they keep their counting to themselves. How many times have you seen the posts "the expensive stuff is bought by people with more money than sense" "rivit counters not welcome."

[railroadyoshi]

This man is a bit over his head, but the outrageous comments about being things like Hitler are unneeded. this man may have some issues but that doesnt constitute such poor treatment. I find it suprising that i am 12 years old and im saying this. What he is saying may have some value, though a lot of it was absurd. What you may take from it is that you need to watch out for poor quality stuff, but not go crazy on high end items.

Also, the 1000 dollar mark will come, sooner or later. You don't need to spend the money that fast, even though even a simple 4x8 can easily cross the 3000 mark, (mine did). Used equipment and structures are a great value.( just test them before buying) If you dont want to spend a lot, join your local NMRA Chapter.

The poor treatment of that individual was unfounded. He may not have friends, and was looking for an outlet. Continue the conversation in the way previous contributors have mentioned. Perhaps you will see the good in this person.

appauled,
siddharth agrawal

[Anonymous]

The reason they have only two people in the club is precisely the reason you would not join now that you have talked to him . Most clubs have this problem to a certain degree and certainly clubs have to use rules to enhance operation., but how you want to build your models is your own decision. I have things from the late sixties that I only keep to remind me how I started in the model train hobby.

If you visit a club for the fist time, just stand back and watch how the questions are answered before you ask any. It is common for the so called experts to go off on what is so great about their methods and forget that we all started at some level and still enjoyed the hobby with what we had even at the beginning.

When I go to train shows or club open houses, I rarely say anything to the operators and just enjoy what is being presented, good or bad.

[Anonymous]

I had an experience with a club once
although not as extreme. This club needed new blood or actually new moneyso I joined but there wern't any modules available all of them were taken up by existing members no biggie I could still run trains wel not really I was always lowest on the totem pole for that so I gave up. Clubs are not for me
I have my layout and if you come over and bad mouth it then I will have my bouncer kick oyu to the street.
ha

[Anonymous]

QUOTE:
He continued to tell me that if it is not brass an engine just probably is not worth my time and money.

That couldn't be more further from the truth!

[Anonymous]

I hate people who act like they know everything! But one thing Capriguy , a $1000 is not that hard to spend Ive personally passed this mark a few times. There is no need to spend this all at once but over time it will be surpassed!!!!!!! One other thing DONT EVER THROW AWAY TRAINS!!![V]

[Anonymous]

Our Club will be having an open house at the end of June. You definetly won't find any 'if it's not a brass engine it's not worth your time' people there. The magority of the clubs engines are Athearn BBs and roundhouse and athearn rolling stock dominate the roster. We have a small club with about a dozen members. Dues are kept small and the equipment reflelts that.
I'll be putting on a scenery demonstration (scenery done cheaply, be realisticaly).

Oh yeah, the hobby does cost money, you will reach and go over the 1000$ mark but there are a few places that I managed to save money.
I found a fellow that was going out of the hobby and bought all my track second hand, this wasn't brass track.
I usually wait until the swap meets come around before I go looking for structures and equipment. The last swap meet I went to I picked up 7 peco turnouts for 5$ each and a box of Trainline FA-1s (two powered, three dummies) for 20$.
Most people who ask me how to get started in the hobby I tell them to buy one moderatly priced, reliable engine (athearn, P1K, ect) and rolling stock. Ans invest in good quality track (not brass) I figure that you can get your track, paower pack and a roster to run on a 4x8 for about 300$, after that how much you want to spaend is up to you.

[Anonymous]

$1000?

I have already blown thru that in the last 4 years in the hobby.

But no where does it say in the hobby that Zealots have the right to stand over the masses and say "You need to spend x dollars for THIS not that or something else."

Every item that I have decided to buy has brought me pleasure. Be it $1.00 or $100.00 Some of these items I have resold to others for a lessor price knowing they too will enjoy these items.

I will listen to that Zealot who burns with passion and ask him why he feels so strongly about (Insert item). Maybe he knows something I dont.

If I had a chance to tell everyone just how good Kaydee couplers are versus others who make imitations in plastic.. I would. And why.

The hobby is about enjoying trains in a way that reduces the stresses on your life. No where does it say I "Must" spend x number of dollars.

Some layouts are well in the excess of 1000. Some of the work of talented hobby masters that have given us the pleasure of knowing thier works and learning how to improve our own work is priceless.

Money is not everything. But I'll take that 20 pack of Kaydee #5's please... because I know they work.

[selector]

I would have said to him, " Oh, I looked at the brass and feel that it is not up to my standards. I went out right away and got the Tenko 4-8-4 in beryllium. I didn't want to do anything by half measures, so I figured that I would go out right from the start and get 'good' locos. These ones set me back $6500 each, but they were worth it."

And as I proceeded to walk away, I would say something like, "Gosh, you'd think a serious modeler would know about the Tenkos."[:-,]

[dehusman]

In a recent issue of Model Railroading magazine was an article on the Schuylkill Valley Model RR Club in Phoenixville, PA. I belonged to that club from about 1973 to 1979 (when i moved west to start my post college carreer). Before the slams on clubs overwhelm the thread, I wanted to comment that I had a very positive experience at that club. I joined while still in high school. They taught me to build spline roadbed, to handlay switches, to build hardshell scenery, how to "zip-texturize" scenerey and how to wire multicab DC. They encouraged, by example, to stretch my modeling skills and scratchbuild several structures (at least some of which I spotted in the article's pictures). They allowed me responsibility, I was the branchline committee chairman and designed the club lettering standards. The bottom line is not all clubs drive away new members, not all clubs keep the new members as low man on the totem pole. One other point I'd like to make. I was a member in 1973. The article was published in 2005. The fact that they did include new and young members probably accounts for the fact that the club is still in business 32 years later.

Dave H.