#4 turnouts and 6 axle diesels?

[Anonymous]

Trying to incorporate a small staging yard into an unused section of the layout, but it's not a very big area, and in order to get more tracks in, I'll need to use #4 turnouts. Most of the through trains and trains coming on scene from 'off' the layout, will be 6 axle diesels, and most of them will originate in the staging yard. Just wanted to know if it was possible, since I'd be going slow, to use #4's with the big diesel's and if they'll navigate the diverging routes okay if going slow. If not, I'll have to go to #6 switches and reduce the number of tracks by at least half.

[Anonymous]

From my past experiences, 6 axles seem to navigate the #4's better than 4 axles. I always had a problem with the 4 axle locos stalling at the frog (older track). If the locomotives split the switch, ie; want to go the opposite route than intended, try using the switch motors or ground throws to "lock" the turnout points into place.

Good luck!

R.W.

[mcouvillion]

jshrade,

You might try the Peco small radius turnouts in place of the typical cheapo #4s. They are a little better quality and I've seen engines a lot larger than 6 axles (read big steam) make it through these when run slowly. Good luck.

Mark C.

[Anonymous]

Well, I was planning on #6's for all my mainline crossovers and industry taps from the mainline, so that the big diesels can at the very least drop cars on the industry lead tracks without having problems, but I wasn't sure if the #4's would be too small for a 6 axle diesel. I plan on using Atlas track almost exclusively, since it's widely available in my area and since I'll have so many turnouts, but I've tried 6 axles over the Atlas Snap Track turnouts, which I've heard are actually close to a #5, except the diverging route has more curvature (18" radius) than a standard #4, so I had no idea if a big diesel would navigate it or not. They'll actually only be running over maybe two or three #4's even to get to the farthest yard track, and I'll be going slow with them, so it sounds like things will work perfectly. I managed to squeeze 8 tracks into the yard, on 2.25" track spacing, with about a 40 degree bend halfway through, but the radii of the turns are stacked (aka, minimum inside radius 20.5", largest outside radius 32") so I'll stage shorter cars on the inside of the bend, and my longer cars on the outter yard tracks. I also got to thinking that instead of making it solely a staging yard, I can go ahead and incorporate it into the scenery, to look like one end of a much larger yard. I'm the sole operator of the layout, so I think it'll work great for my purposes.

Sorry I got long winded there... I've just been trying to figure out the staging and car storage dliema for a couple weeks now when I play with Atlas's Right Track software. I've got a good bead on my track plan now, but every other week I make minor changes, and it's only gotten better each time. My carpentry skills aren't good enough to build a helix, or even a lower level, so I think this idea will be the best one for me

Thanks for the tips guys!

[Anonymous]

if you have the track you might want to setup a mock up of it and try running your big locos and cars over them. i keep hearing thay will do it but it dont look good doing it .

[Anonymous]

Oh I haven't even started buying track yet.... lol not quite to that stage yet. I've still gotta fini***he benchwork and get the plywood for the tabletops. I'm just playing with my track plans between paychecks so I'll know what I'm doing when I get there. I'll mock everything up before I make anything permanent though, for certain.

[cwaldman]

I have not had much problem with using #4's. My problem has been the radius of my curves. I knew it was coming, as I wanted shorter length trains and to run nothing over 50' cars. It was intentional. I really am/was into John Allen for years and wanted to model operation in such a way that it was not easy. No passing sidings. In a local yard where I live, they often push cars to industries. The other day I sat waiting at a crossing while 15 or coal cars went by. Instead of seeing the end of the train, here comes a switcher pushing them. I even have seen more than once the peddler collecting cars and being in the middle of the consist on its way back to the yard. 4-5 cars on either side of the engine. Cool!

To me this is real, intricate and thought intensive. My one are requires the cars to be pushed back up the main line to gain access to the yard. Then direction switched and it enters. Getting back to those industries require cars to be backed out of the yard. The 6 axel works fine on all the number 4's, but some of the tighter curves means a switcher or 4 axel is as big as I can get.

[Anonymous]

I use #5's in my yard with very good results. The curves in my yard are not concentric but all 28"rad. I run 36' and 40' cars with big steam locos and the uncouplers work fine in the curve.

Bob

[Don Gibson]

MOSTof today's 6 axle diesel's will go through a properly guaged #4.If not, replace the turnout with a better quality one (more expensive ).

[CP5415]

I'm using Peco switches on my layout & the BIG 6 axle diesels I have ( AC4400's) have had no problem with navigating #4's.
Mind you all but one switch on my mainline is at least a #6. The lone #4 is access to one of my yards.
Neither one of my Walthers centerbeam cars have problems coupled together going through this switch.

Gordon

[rlandry6]

I think that big locos and #4's are more of a visual problem than an operational one. The large locos and cars just don't look as good on the small radii turnouts. I'm redoing an N scale layout that I acquired and it's going to have a lot of #4 turnouts, including some on the mainlines because that's what I have. I'm just going to stick with short locos and cars, since all I have room for is a 4X8 at this time and almost all of my small radius curves are going to be hiding in tunnels and behind scenery.

[steveblackledge]

I have got two #4 peco points used as a crossover on a double track, when i run big diesels in a consist like SD40's the middle loco tips to one side while traveling through the crossover, the swingout of the loco coupler against the car's coupler tends to pu***he car over, this has ended in derailments. if you use #4's on there own you should be OK

[Anonymous]

My Layout is almost exclusivly #4 atlas and peco. I have yet to have a problem with either turnout and I've run and athearn trainmaster over the entire line.

[NZRMac]

I've been using Model Power #4's Cheap as chips!! They don't seem to bother my SD40-2's even in a crossover situation. I found some cheap peco #6 on the net so I'm going with those from now on.

Ken.

[Don Gibson]

Because of the quantity of cheap ready-made turnout's out there:

1. maker's of the cheaper prefab turnout's gereraly loosen their spec's to accomodate a wider variety of equipment that beginner's buy.
2. maker's of engine's - such as large diesel's with 6 wheeled trucks - design 'loosness' or 'slop' in their product, in order to take advantage of the above.
The goal is to minimize complaint's and accomodate more equipment.

Look at the Walthers' Budd cars -should be run on 44"r - designed down to work on 24"r - and look at the complaint's from people trying to squeeze onto 22" & 18" curves. Old timer's such as Chuck Walsh look at it like a challenge.

I had an old ANDERSON turnout once with continuous rail point's, solid rail frog, NMRA spaced guard rails and flanges, and all my wheels went thru with hardly even a 'click'. No bounce, no deraiment's. Smoooth. However any wheel that was out of spec was met with instant rejection. A Great learing experience. I still have that turnout.

[jeffshultz]

One thing that needs to be kept in mind is that an Atlas Snap Switch is not a #4. I've got an Athearn C44-9W that will go through a #4, without difficulty, but if you don't absolutely creep through a snap-switch, it'll derail in a heartbeat.

[dinwitty]

Atlas snap switch tries to maintain the 18" radius circle to match in with all the snap track.

Snap track to me is toylike. Good for the younger crew to throw down a set on the floor, run a train around then put it away.

Seroius hobbyists shouldnt have to use snap track like that.

Use snap track if you wanna..

[Anonymous]

Oh, I'm definitely staying away from Snap Track, because on my first layout I used snap switches exclusively, and I couldn't get ANY 6 axle diesels through a snap switch without derailing. This layout I'm going to do everything by the book (or as close as possible) and pay the extra money for a good Custom Line #4 and #6 switches. Right now I'm designing my trackplan using Atlas's Right Track 5.0 Software, and my goal is to use #6's on all crossovers, mainline turnouts, and any place big diesels will be moved in large number, but hearing about the #4's being a good choice for big diesels too, I may redesign the layout to incorporate more #4's on the mainline since they don't occupy as much real estate, and I could squeeze in a little more detail.

Thanks for the responses!

[GMTRacing]

I have now laboriously removed the #4 turnouts and replaced them with #6 or better on all my main lines. Mostly they are Atlas, and mostly the derailments I had were on the #4 mains with anything more than a few cars. I vote for less detail, more reliablility. J.R.