How extensively were geared locos used for switching.

[SpaceMouse]

I first got the suggestion from Jetrock. Then I read that John Allen had both a Heisler and a Shay that he used for switching.

How common was this a practice? I'd love to convert my Heisler to switcher duty. ( I know I can if I want to.)

[twhite]

Chip--out here in California on the logging lines, generally whatever locomotive was the 'road' loco, also did whatever switching was needed in the yard. I do know that the Rio Grande had several Shays around the Salt Lake City area that they used for both mine-haul and switching purposes, and also the Sierra Railroad here in California used geared locomotives for road and switching purposes on their Angels Camp Branch. So having your geared locomotive trundling around the yards with transfer cuts wouldn't be very un-prototypical at all. And if you're running a short-line, it was very common to have the road locomotive make up and break up the train, as few short lines had the Capital to afford locomotives strictly for switching. I've got a Spectrum Shay that I use for yard work on my Yuba River Sub, mainly because it's better at handling a long cut of cars than my VERY underpowered P2K USRA 0-8-0!
Tom [^]

[West Coast S]

Chip: These come to mind

Union Pacifc used three Shays on a branch in Utah hauling concentrates from the mine to Salt lake City.

There is speculation, based upon a scrap yard photo, that the Pacific Electric may have operated a Shay at some point to work the many gravel quarries located along the Santa Ana River bed.

The Western Maryland operated the largest and among the last constructed for mine run service and to switch mine tipples.

The New York Central operated Shays in the early days in the greater New York City area that were sheathed to resemble boxcars so as not to frighten horses and comply with state law prior to the elevated lines being constructed.

A Northern Pacific owned shortline with questionable track and stiff grades, used a Heisler as its sole motive power

So you see, there is a prototype for everything...

[Anonymous]

In Boston, the Union Freight RR used boxcab's for switching the water front.

Mo

[dinwitty]

If your thinking about heavy mainline roads, I can't think of geared locos finding a lot of switching duties, as they had different locos suited for different jobs, like 0-6-0's and the such.
For a short time the N&W had the largest Shay around to pull coal over the mountains, but it was too slow. They abandoned its use.
The Shay and geared locos were pretty much targeted for the shortlines without a big budget that could handle many duties, take sharp curves, hit the steep grades.
But any railroad could have found some use somewhere.
You need it for switching duties, do it! Love the slow speed performance.

Norfolk and Western also had a tie plant using narrow gauge but I don't recall if it used shays or not.

[cacole]

The Cass Scenic Railway uses Shays to do their switching, freight deliveries, and tourist train operations. I believe they have at least 3 Shays and hardly anything else.

I have a video that shows them running a former Western Maryland Shay #6, which they say is the largest Shay ever built.

[Jetrock]

So far as I know, Chip isn't thinking of heavy mainline roads--more like 1900's era back-country roads. Sharp curves, steep grades and low budgets are very much in his layout's mindset, I think.

[brokemoto]

The Central also used Shays to switch the Eastman-Kodak plant.

Many industries did use them as plant switchers. Eventually, the diesels superceded them as they were much cheaper to operate. A switcher spends a large amount of time sitting and waiting for something to do. One must keep up the steam locomotive's fire. It continues to burn fuel. A diesel burns almost no fuel when it idles. Any time you put ferrous metal, water under pressure and heat together, you are begging for trouble. The diesel only does that in its cooling system, and the only point of contact for hot water under pressure to ferrous metal is the water jacket; the radiator is usually made form a cuperous metal. The steam locomotive requires many gallons of water to operate; the diesel needs water only for its cooling system.

I have a non-historic railroad. Atlas' N scale Shay is superb. It runs very nicely at walking speed--it even makes a squeaking racket as it goes. I would like to use it for peddler freights, but I do not know if I could get away with it. I would also like to use it as a station switcher, but again..........

[AltonFan]

IIRC, there was a railroad in Kansas City that used Shays for switching industries in the city. However, I seem to recall that these engines were retired and scrapped well before World War II.

But as a general rule, major, line-haul common carriers rarely used geared locomotives. It was more common to use small conventional steam locomotives. Where smoke or fire were potential hazards, "fireless cookers", small steam engines with a tank charged from a stationary boiler (which many large industrial complexes had both for heating and to provide power for machinery).

[route_rock]

Heislers catalog states a few industries( cant give names but if you mail Heisler corp they will send them to you) used their locos for switching due to the low speed and heavy pulling capacity compared to a rod engine.
Steam engines are not always burning fuel. I can bank a fire on our Heisler and have it hitting the pin in under 10 minutes. We do this so she wont pop off while waiting for the next train time. 10 minutes to train time we start "throwing a fire "into the old girl.Diesels do burn constantly unless you shut it off then you have to worry about getting them restarted( batteries could be weak or the prime mover just plain cranky) a typical diesel at idle under no load burns 6-8 gallons per hour, not much but still more than what a steam engine burns when its fire is banked. Yes steam needed water to operate and yes it was on ferrous metal however Steam has run and is still running and IMHO will run longer than anything Rudolph ever invented[}:)][}:)][:D][:D] BTW my Heisler was built in 1912[}:)]

[dehusman]

Depends on what you mean by "switching".

Most "switching" Shays were used for spotting and pulling industies in industrial lines with tight curves and sharp grades or where they were the sole power so they had to do everything because there was no other locomotive to do it.

If you are talking about working in a classification yard, classifying cars, the answeris it would be extremely rare. 99% of those engines would be either an 0-4-0, 0-6-0 or 0-8-0. The rod engines were cheaper and had better acceleration. Remember in 1905 a shay or Heisler would be an expensive, brand new-fangled engine, not a hand-me-down relegated to switcher service. The geared engine would be more likely to be pulling cars up the 4% grade on your layout and the 2-6-0's switching in the yard.

Dave H.

[dinwitty]

So the use of a geared engine for switching comes down to how the railroad wanted to handle it.
I know the Shay and the geared locos were targeted for the heavy grades and sharp curves railroad market, as the roadbed did not have to be exactly graded mainline standards. Rememeber there were some shays designed to use log rails, double flanged wheels running on logs.

[route_rock]

Never saw the double flanged wheel. Yes Dehusman is right to the point that Geared engines would be used elsewhere (steep grades etc etc) But I guess it also depended on the railroad. The Heisler catalogs I have the majority of industries using them over rod engines were steel mills and lumber lines.
Geared engines were the go anywhere do anything engine. I would have used one in a tight area (city street trackage with tight curves and steep grades, a good premise if B man ever gets a Heisler in On30!!!) or just whenever I wnated to pull the entire yard lead and then some. I think IMHO a geared engine serving as a roadswitcher or even as an industry switcher is up to you. I am going to use one just as a gag as a passenger engine!

[Jetrock]

No gag, route_rock--many west-coast logging shortlines DID use geared locomotives in passenger service!

The double-flanged wheel was an oddity for a few logging roads that, as mentioned above, used rough logs as their track instead of steel rails--typically with wide gauge, 7 or 8 feet, and a big wide double flange like a car tire or a donkey engine's capstan, to roll along logs a foot or more in diameter.

[exPalaceDog]

What seems to be overlooked here is that all switch engines were not owned by railroads. In many cases they were owned by industries and used for plant switching.

For an industry such as a quarry, a geared engine could be good choice.

Have fun

[Anonymous]

Double flange was a common catalog offering for early Shay and Climax. Logging outfits building from scratch (humble beginnings) did lots of things to get things done including dragging the logs between the rails until they could afford a flat car or few. Practice was money not locale.