SP Daylight HO Lionel pulling power?

[Anonymous]

I just got a set of 6 of the Bachmann Spestrum Passenger cars (newer ones with the all metal trucks) and have tried to run them on my layout. I am running the Bachmann SP Daylight 4-8-4 loco and it just can't quite pull the grades. (Wheels slip) I have about 20 other trains and this is the only one with this problem.
Does any one know if the Lionel version of the daylight 4-8-4 has more pulling power than the Bacmann? How is the quality on that engine?
Or is there a way to add traction tires to the Bachmann?
Thanks
Bob R.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by karmabob

I just got a set of 6 of the Bachmann Spestrum Passenger cars (newer ones with the all metal trucks) and have tried to run them on my layout. I am running the Bachmann SP Daylight 4-8-4 loco and it just can't quite pull the grades. (Wheels slip) I have about 20 other trains and this is the only one with this problem.
Does any one know if the Lionel version of the daylight 4-8-4 has more pulling power than the Bacmann? How is the quality on that engine?
Or is there a way to add traction tires to the Bachmann?
Thanks
Bob R.

I purchased four of the Lionel engines when they first came out during the Freedom Train era and none of them would pull four or five cars up any grade. I don't believe they are your answer to pulling power.

Most of the time, only about four drivers out of eight touch the rails.

The good thing about the Lionel version is they look nice. .

[Anonymous]

So does any one know if there is any way to increase traction on engines with all metal wheels?
The only other engine I have this problem with is the new Broadway Limited T1 4-4-4-4. It has all metal wheels also.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by karmabob

So does any one know if there is any way to increase traction on engines with all metal wheels?
The only other engine I have this problem with is the new Broadway Limited T1 4-4-4-4. It has all metal wheels also.

Weight is the best way to increase traction, but the Lionel models I have float the two middel drivers sets with only the end driver axles touching. This creates a problem in traction, since it is effectively a 4 4 4 in pulling power.

I was under the impression the BLI T1 had a traction tire set in the box that could be installed on the engine. I hope this helps. By the way, I am older and used to get on the T1's quite often as a young kid and have pictures of them in service.

[espeefoamer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by karmabob

So does any one know if there is any way to increase traction on engines with all metal wheels?
The only other engine I have this problem with is the new Broadway Limited T1 4-4-4-4. It has all metal wheels also.

Your T1 is very prototypical.The PRR found these locos to be slippery.

[ragnar]

Frankly I would think your best bet is to watch for one of the brass H.O GS4s on the the market today, neither the Lionel or Bachmann engines are going to hold up that well over the long haul ,Of course you could go the kitbash route and experiment with trying to put a complete new drive under the superstructure but thats not going to be easy and may be more trouble than your willing to deal with and you'll still have a plastic locomotive .

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ragnar

Frankly I would think your best bet is to watch for one of the brass H.O GS4s on the the market today, neither the Lionel or Bachmann engines are going to hold up that well over the long haul ,Of course you could go the kitbash route and experiment with trying to put a complete new drive under the superstructure but thats not going to be easy and may be more trouble than your willing to deal with and you'll still have a plastic locomotive .

Your idea is good and I believe Bowser makes a drive chassis kit for the GS4.

[jsoderq]

Bowser makes a replacement mechanism for this loco. I do not know how much is involved as I never bothered with a Bachmann loco.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by karmabob

I just got a set of 6 of the Bachmann Spestrum Passenger cars (newer ones with the all metal trucks) and have tried to run them on my layout.
Thanks
Bob R.

Please also consider that your metal wheel sets may not be too free rolling.
Also the car may be a tad too over NMRA weight.


Pick out one of your grades, anywhere between 2.5 & 3.
Set one of your other cars at the crest of the grade and give it a finger push.
Then do the Spectrum.
You just might see a big difference.

I have a set on loan from 4884 Bigboy and will do a test as well.

Do you have the first run or the second run Spectrum?
There are two and the big operating difference is in the coupler function.
The second one is a KD drop in.

Also what is the weight of your engine???????????

[ragnar]

On further reflection wouldn't it be nice if Bachmann would reissue the Daylight in their Spectrum Series,concidering what they've done with their 2-8-0 and 2-10-0 that would be imho a really smart move on their part , one of the most beautiful engines ever built ,reasonlly priced and a top performer....

[Don Gibson]

BACHMANN is supposed to be re-tooling their 'Daylight' into a 'Spectrum' loco. 'Spectrum' is Bachmann's name for their better engine's.

Adding weight is a bad choice as the press fit on the drivers on the axle's is 'iffy'. They are so inexpensive, that double heading is both practical and prototypical for this engine.

WHY do I get the impression that the Lionel GS-4 and Bachmann GS-4 are the same engine???? What I would NOT do is buy one off of EBay, the old one's were that bad.

[Anonymous]

True, Bachmann is re-tooling their GS4 (and maybe their NYC Niagra and UP FEF-1) for their Spectrum line. We should expect to see them later this year (fall).

[cacole]

The wipers for the interior lighting on those Bachmann Spectrum passenger cars puts a lot of drag on them. They need to be lightly lubricated with a conductive grease, and then put a small amount of powdered graphite on the axle ends to reduce friction there.

I have a set of 8 Bachmann Spectrum Heavyweight passenger cars with interiors and lighting, and even my Broadway Limited 4-8-4 Northern struggles pulling them up a 2% grade.

That Bachmann SP Daylight is too lightweight to pull more than 3 or 4 passenger cars without wheel slippage.

[twhite]

Actually, the Lionel IS a Bachmann--when Lionel first came out with the Daylight/Freedom Train GS-4, they contracted with Bachmann. I bought one for my nephew when they were first available, some years back, and it would just about pull its tender, so I'm not surprised that it's stalling and slipping on any kind of grade with weighted passenger cars. The newer Bachmann GS-4 is a little better, but not by much, unless you get the "War Baby", which seems to be a better puller than the "Daylight" version (why, I don't know, as they're essentially the same loco). I did add a little weight to my Bachmann "Daylight", right over the front two drivers (where it's really needed, the engine is weighted toward the firebox too much), by using some flat lead and double-sided tape. It does pull a little better now, but I'm using Athearn and Con-Cor 'Daylight' cars, which are considerably lighter than the Spectrums. Hopefully, as several others have said, Bachmann will be introducing the GS-4 in a Spectrum model soon, and if it runs like the other Spectrums, it should be a good model and a good puller.
Tom

[nfmisso]

Some clarification:
1. Kader Industries of Hong Kong owns Bachmann.
2. Lionel contracted with Kader for the GS4, the GP30 and other item in HO scale. When the contract ran out; Lionel lost interest, the models were added to the Bachmann line with no changes. Even the printing on the boxes had just minor changes.
3. The Bowser chassis pulls, and provides space and the power to support lots of extra weight. http://www.bowser-trains.com/mech_3-204.php
4. And if you want a can motor for it: http://www.bowser-trains.com/ho_alliance.php

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cacole

The wipers for the interior lighting on those Bachmann Spectrum passenger cars puts a lot of drag on them. They need to be lightly lubricated with a conductive grease, and then put a small amount of powdered graphite on the axle ends to reduce friction there.

I

I certainly agree with some kind of lube application. Reduce friction, increase roll. These cars measure 10.75" and weigh in at seven ounces, just a tad above NMRA standards.
It may make sense to review the merits of upgrading to the Reboxx axle replacement set
if everything else fails but taking those trucks apart is tricky.
The particular Spectrums I'm looking at (they must vary) have the light wire screwed into the metal truck frame. It does not touch the axle, obviously not a contributory drag factor .
Again what is your engine weight? I suspect anything less than 18 oz will cause a spin.
My 16 oz P2K Berkshire($250.00) spins up my 3% grade until I double head her pulling free rolling freight cars.

[Don Gibson]

Not owning any Bachmann cars I go with Chuck's advice. Start with the wheels. Reducing friction at the truck's should be a goal. Unfortunately GOOD passenger trucks are pricey,

MDC's delrin truck frames and JayBee wheels roll fabulously, but have no electrical connections. No simple answer. ANY electrical connection adds friction. BEST to eliminate, or minimize by using wipers with contact cleaner (an oil).

[Virginian]

The Bowser chassis for the GS-4 is first rate, but does require some work. Sprung all metal drivers and axles and plenty of room for added weight. I was halfway thru another Bachmann J upgrade when they released the Spectrum and it's on hold, but the first one I did worked great.

[Anonymous]

I just use a pusher. The browser 0-4-0 does more than enough.

[Anonymous]

I do have a bachmann gs-4 4-8-4.

[Don Gibson]

NOTE:

BACHMANN's 'War Baby' is not a GS-5 but the GS-4 in a black diaper.

$150 paint jobs with $15 mechanism's... and worthy of BOWSER's drive. Note the Tender wheel pickip.

[West Coast S]

Or you could repower using a diesel switcher chassie under the tender, leaving the engine unpowered, I recall seeing this done once before on a club layout.

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by West Coast S

Or you could repower using a diesel switcher chassie under the tender, leaving the engine unpowered, I recall seeing this done once before on a club layout.

I've seen somthing similar to that done on an N scale Norfolk & Western layout. Some guy's Mallet wasn't powerful enough so he used a RS diesel mechanism inside an auxilary water tender body. So its really 2 locos on the point.