How would you maximize room space for HO layout?

[grayfox1119]

I have a 10' X 20' room and I would like to maximize the use of this space for as much scenery and trackage as I can fit. I have looked at many pictures of MRR layouts, and I believe that I would need a combination of table widths, islands and maybe duck unders in order to accomplish what I want, and be able to reach everything within reason. Then of course there is the infamous minimum radii that must be considered in order to run large locos. I would appreciate hearing from the skilled knowledable folks on this forum.

Thank you,

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by grayfox1119

I have a 10' X 20' room and I would like to maximize the use of this space for as much scenery and trackage as I can fit. I have looked at many pictures of MRR layouts, and I believe that I would need a combination of table widths, islands and maybe duck unders in order to accomplish what I want, and be able to reach everything within reason. Then of course there is the infamous minimum radii that must be considered in order to run large locos. I would appreciate hearing from the skilled knowledable folks on this forum.

Thank you,

I have just a little more space thatn you. I am going to add a second level shelf above the main layout and a staging track below.

[selector]

It is difficult to offer you any feedback or advice without more specifics, Grayfox1119. For example, what elements are you currently considering, and how and where will they be reached or placed? Will you include the more popular combinations of spurs and main, with spurs leading to industrial sites for operations? Will you have substantial (whatever meaning YOU ascribe ot that word) staging track? With what constraints to a long main line, whether it will necessarily be a point-to-point or a loop of sorts, will you contend in this room? Where are the doors, windows, outlets, and so on?

The answers to these, and other subsequent questions, will have you on your way, we hope.

[TurboOne]

Hey ***, hope all is well with you back in the snow world. While around the wall works for some, maybe you could have the penisula layout that I have seen that is so popular. Big curves for the larger engines, and no duck unders. The sample pics I have seen kind of look like a big 3. Seems very effecient and cool looking as well.

Tim

[Jetrock]

grayfox1119: Let us know more about what you want from a layout. Obviously you model in HO, but more information about what era you model, what kind of railroad you like, what kind of industries you want, etcetera, will help provide more ideas.

A 10x20 space is big enough for an around-the-walls layout and still include a peninsula in the middle. You could include a lift-out section at the entrance to the room, which would provide a loop (around the perimeter of the room) with a wye at one end--the wye would project into the middle of the room, forming a long peninsula that could be a dandy division-point yard.

A plus of around-the-room layouts is that you can have quite broad curves with better access to the trains in fewer square feet than a traditional "island" plan.

[grayfox1119]

Good morning gents, thank you for inputs so far. I guess I should have been a bit more specific, but seeing this is my 1st layout since I was 12, and layout was the floor of my cold water flat mill house bedroom with the celing light with an extension cord for power, I do need to be more specific.
JETROCK, you come the closest to what I am thinking of doing. I felt that I could use an around the walls plan, using all four walls, with a lift up/out section, which would give me a complete loop, which would allow for larger radii for big engines. I also will include islands, don't know just where yet, and I will undoubtedly have to use some lift out sections where I disobey the 30" reach law .
I will be "trying" to model, the former B&A line, now the CSX line up through the Berkshire Mountains, the Hoosic Tunnel in North Adams, Mass, and also the B&M lines including the Mountain Division in NH as well as the Central Vermont which crosses at a diamond in Palmer , Mass on it's way to the coast on Conn, as well as the Providence and Worcester RR.
As I like both the steam era and today's diesel, I am going new and old, probably one half the room for one. The old Mountain Division in NH, had spur logging lines which I will model also. Now to get REALLY abitious in the future, this basement room has a cement interior wall seperating it from the utility room. The future plan calls for me to drill a hole through the 10" concrete wall, making this the Hoosic Tunnel in NW Mass, leading the tracks into another room for expansion, but that is ways off yet.
New suggestions guys? For instance, do you prefer lift out sections to complete the run around the room or hinge bridge design? Don't worry about cutting power to avoid a deep plunge of loco 4002, I will have contact switches which will kill power to the track when bridge is lifted out/up.

Thanks guys,

[IRONROOSTER]

You really have to define what you hope to accomplish. Are you interested in running lots of trains by yourself, do you want to host regular operating sessions with a crew of friends, want to run the largest articulateds, run long trains, scenic realism important, want a shortline operation, etc.

In terms of benchwork you could have:
1. An island in the middle of the room say 5 x 15 to allow 2 1/2 ft aisles.
2. Around the walls with an open center.
3. Around the walls with a peninsula.
4. Mushroom layout - multi level layout, where you have some elevated floors and view different levels from different aisles.
5. Double (or more) deck layout around the walls.
6. Solid with access hatches for maintenance and operation, keep the height high enough so that getting to the hatches is not too difficult. Alternatively make it so low you can walk over it.

Try and keep aisles large enough to move around comfortably. My current layout is 11x18 around the walls with peninsula. In order to cram in as much as possible some of my aisles got down to 21". I would heartliy recommend trying for 3' .

Enjoy
Paul

[grayfox1119]

Hi Paul, thanks for your inputs!! Greatly appreciated!! Too answer a few questions, I will be the sole operator with the possible exception of one of my sons who is 38. I have one articulated engine. As for scenic realism, yes, as much as my talent and learning will take me, and yes, there will be a shortline operation also.
I assume that I would need a helix if I were to use a 2nd level. I am not circumferentially challenged ( how is that for political correctness), so smaller isles are no problem for me.

[Anonymous]

Grayfox, if I had your space and was going to build a layout that big, I'd have 2 major requirements:

1) The mainline enters and leaves every scene only 1 time - it doesn't do a "u-turn" and come back through the same scene going the opposite direction.

2) Staging allowing point-to-point operation or continuous running.

Say your the perimeter of your room is a clock. (I know, your room is a rectangle, but a clock is round, so bear with me here...) The train could start at the 1:00 position, then continue all the way around the room to the 12:00 position. That would be your point-to-point operation. You could have staging between the 12:00 and 1:00 position that could feed trains at either the 12:00 or 1:00 ends of the line.

Just want to watch-em-run? Open up the staging and run it in a loop.

Disclaimer: I have zero layout design experience aside from 4 x 8's when I was a kid. But I've seen a lot of layouts like this in MR that look like they contain a good combination of realistic looking scenes, and practicality.

You could have a couple peninsulas that contain industries. I personally probably wouldn't bring the mainline out on the peninsulas. You'd end up with what a lot of guys call "blobs" - a big u-turn of mainline track. They don't look incredibly realistic.

I'm envious of you!!!

[selector]

There, Fox. All of your questions were greeted with more questions, but I am happy to see that, instead of getting hopelessly mired as you may have at first feared, I think you are well on your way!

I wish you a truly fantastic experience.

[tstage]

***,

That's about the size of the finished half of my basement. I would go with an around the wall layout with a peninsula or two. That would give you plently of trackage with easier access to scenary. It would also give you the freedom of using larger curved radii, which will make for more realism.

I would encourage you to think about a lift out, instead of a duck under. You (and your wife, if you're married) will appreciate NOT having to bend over quite so much.

Tom

[Anonymous]

A multi-level layout with narrow aisles is obviously the way to maximize the amount of track & scenery.

Keep in mind that maximizing the available space isn't the same as creating a space where operating the layout is comfortable and pleasant .

Wayne

[ndbprr]

I'm an empty nester so with my wife wanting no more than an 1800 sq. ft. house I intend to build a pyramid with 1800 sq ft of living space and a 10,000 sq ft basement.

[Anonymous]

***,

Lets do the math on an around the room design with a center penisula. I will presume 30" aisles. If you have a peninsula, I presume that you want to run around it. This will mean that the size of the end of the peninsula will be determined by your minimum radius. Presuming 24" radius, your peninsula end is now 4 feet. Add that to your 5 feet of aisle (30" X 2) space and you can see that your benchwork on either side will now be 6" wide. Your space is slightly too small for this design using the criteria I just outlined. However there are many other alternatives that can work.

1. Eliminate the peninsula. Take a look a Pelle Selborg's layout in this months MR for a good Plan for this option. With this plan you could have 24" wide benchwork around the walls and have a large area in the middle with possibly some bump outs into the center.

2. Don't run around the peninsula. Things would still be tight but 18" scenes on the walls with a 24" wide stub end peninsula would fit with 30" aisles.

3. Try and adjust the parameters of radius, aisle width and benchwork width to compromise that will work.

There never seems to be enough space to build the stuff you want to build. I would opt for a more spacious design. My space is slightly larger than yours and I was able to get the peninsula in but it is very tight. My train buddies and I have concluded with 30" minimum, you need roughly a room 13' feet wide to do a simple peninsula plan with around the walls. My suggestion is to draw a scale grid of your space and then get a track planning template and draw until you get something that will work.

[Jetrock]

One way to put the peninsula on a diet: Don't put a loop at the end! A peninsula is a good place to put a branch line or a dilly of a division-point yard (complete with wye,) and could be only a foot or two thick, which would mean about 4 feet on either side for a 24-30" aisle and 24" of layout.

[grayfox1119]

Very good ideas guys, I really appreciate your thoughts and comments.....I do not intend to have a duck under, my knees don't allow for that very well. It will be a lift out or hinge configuration. As for the rest of the layout, I am still listening...

[Anonymous]

***,
Have you thought about using track planning software, such as 3D PlanIt, Abracadata or Atlas RightTrack? I found the Abracadata tool very helpful in comparing alternative designs for my 22x18ft garage.

[dinwitty]

I have less room than you and I will maximize by multi-level shelf layout, cram the action in.

Minimum radius, I have decided to compromise, since I prefer 3 foot minimum, I have to cut back to 24" minimum for large locos and even 26" minimum for my South Shore portion for my Little Joe.
But my minimum radius use is going to be determined by useage because
switching areas could go to 18" or even 15" with #4 switches, except for traction streetcars/interurbans, which could hit 6" for passenger and maybe 12" for freight.

Large radius is better for passenger trains/long cars, looks much better.
Just make good choices where/how to use minimum radius.

[grayfox1119]

Thanks again guys, you all made excellent suggestions, I am glad I asked because a few things I did not consider were mentioned in the threads. Being my 1st layout, I want avoid as many pitfalls as possible...I know that I will make some errors along the way, but that is Ok, that is how we improve methods.