Switching questions

[Blind Bruce]

What is meant by the terms "facing point" and "team track"?

[mcouvillion]

Hi Blind Bruce,

Facing point refers to a switch that you enter facing the points. Moving forward, you have a choice of routes. Kind of fun to switch, since your train is behind you! Trailing point refers to a switch that you enter from one of it's routes, where you have to move completely through the switch, past the points, to be able to enter the other route. Easy to switch, since your route choices are behind you, just like your cars.

A team track is a siding that has a slab or flat area where trucks can be loaded/unloaded directly from rolling stock like a boxcar or flat car. Originally horse-drawn wagons (teams of horses) were used to transfer the goods from one mode of transportation to the other. The name remains.

Mark C.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Facing point is when your engine is facing the points of the switch. That is when you need a run around to deliver a car to that track. A run around allows you to get the car in front of the engine, so that you can push it into that track.

A team track was the place loads were dropped or picked up when a business didn't have it's own track leading to it's building. In a way, container and piggyback facilities have become the modern version of the team track.

[cefinkjr]

Bruce:

Quick answer to your first question: It's not a trailing point turnout. Now wasn't that a lot of help? [}:)]

But seriously, whether a turnout is a facing point or a trailing point turnout depends on the direction of travel. If your train approaches a turnout from the frog end, it's a trailing point turnout; if you're approaching from the point end, it's a facing point turnout. The prototype has always avoided facing point turnouts on multiple track main lines for safety reasons; more derailments are going to occur on a facing point turnout. This extended in many cases so far that a crossover was used instead of a single turnout to reach an industrial spur. Much more expensive initially but cheaper in the long run if derailments are avoided.

Second question: a team track is a track where freight cars are spotted for customers who have no siding of their own. Before trucks, freight was moved to and from team tracks by a wagon and team of horses; hence the name team track. Cars spotted on team tracks are most typically box cars but any car can be found on a team track as long as the customer is able to load or unload it as required. Example: a covered hopper of cement might be spotted on a team track if the receiving customer has portable equipment to get the cement into a truck.

Chuck

[Anonymous]

Well, you have the definitions 3 times already so I'll just add something: Facing point spurs add a lot of operations interest in my opinion because you have to "run around" any cars you want to leave there. That basically means you get your engine to the other side of the cars, usually with a parrallell track that you pass your cars on.

[dehusman]

You can also switch facing point switches with a train going the other direction.

Dave H.

[Anonymous]

-Dave

I guess thats true. but to the train going the other way it would become a trailing point switch.

[cefinkjr]

A facing point turnout is also a place where crews might use a "Dutch Drop" or a "Flying Switch". This means uncoupling the car while approaching the turnout, quickly accelerating the locomotive through the turnout, throwing the turnout to divert the car, and then manually braking it to a stop after (hopefully) clearing the turnout. Almost impossible to do this in model and outlawed by most roads (notice I said crews "might" do this).

[Anonymous]

Saw one a crew make a flying switch just last week. won't tell you where or on what road, byt it was a class I.[}:)]

[nobullchitbids]

Well, definitions are numerous and adequate, and someone even mentioned the flying-switch maneuver (woe to he who fails to throw the points in time so that the front truck goes normal and the rear truck reversed!).

So, what's to add?

In California (where I once lived), a common employment of team tracks was as a drop-off point for farm produce shipped in "icebox" refers -- supermarkets simply sent their rigs to the team track to get the day's goods rather than invest in a costly (and taxpaying) central warehouse. Often, a refer-cleaning track with appropriate facilities would be close by, and the refers then would be shipped back in "ventilator" mode to dry out the bunkers. A large city might have as many as ten such team tracks, with each pair separated by a concrete or asphalt runway to facilitate getting trucks to the sides of the cars.

Now, as for that flying switch, has anyone ever heard of a maneuver called a "flying train"? The "flying train" is used to quick-change locomotives and cabooses -- the "to be serviced" engine cuts off and accelerates into a passing siding, where it butt-couples the new caboose; ahead of, and separate from, the caboose is the new engine, steamed and raring to go. A flying switch is used to divert the incoming train to the main, which now has no engine (the brakie has to close the***s to keep the brakes from kicking in, so the train has no brakes either!). Now the fun begins: The caboose crew uncouples the caboose and handbrakes, leaving it stranded on the main; the engine-to-be races the headless train to the closing switch and beats it onto the main, and another flying switch puts this engine and the train on the same track; the key now is to slowly decelerate the engine so that the (somewhat) decelerating consist eventually smooth-couples to the new power; meanwhile, the cut-off engine waits for the flying consist to clear the closing switch, then chases after it with the new caboose (remember to throw that turnout!); eventually, the to-be-serviced engine (hopefully) smooth-couples the new caboose to the speeding-away consist, then uncouples itself from "helper" service; as the reconditioned express flies away from the terminal, the cutoff returns to the main to retrieve the dropped caboose, which is then hauled to the caboose track for servicing; with that, the cut-off ambles off to the roundhouse for some servicing of its own.

I understand that "flying trains" actually were used many decades ago in silk-train service and perhaps to avoid consequences of the livestock rules, although needless to say, such maneuvers have more than their share of risk associated with them and were frowned upon by management.

Regardless, let's see somebody model that one!

[bcammack]

Because railroads are "common carriers" they must provide access to all for their transportation services. Team tracks fullfill this requirement. Anyone without their own spur or siding can have a car delivered to the tream track where they can load/unload it themselves.

They are called "team tracks" because in the beginning you would take your wagon and team of horses there and back them up to the freight car to load/unload it.

[Anonymous]

nobullchitbids, you sent a very informative posting. What, by the way, is "silk train-service" and to what "consequences of the live stock rules" do you refer? I am "in the dark" on both of these terms. Was "poling" eventually prohibited by many roads as a safety hazaard? I saw this "poling" maneuver done on the MoPac yards in Dodge City Kansas. [ a pole about 10 to 12 ft. long, maybe 4 in. in diameter, used to push a single car from the loco running on an adjacent parallel track.] There are embossed circlular areas low on the bulkheads of every car I've seen. I suppose it must have been common practice at one time? Thanks for any data available. Regards

[Anonymous]

I wonder if some sort of flywheel arrangement in a few selected box car, reefers and or cabooses could affect the "free wheeling" of a "flying switch" maneuver? I suppose unrealistic speeds would be neccessary for the flywheel to engage for enough momentum to carry much distance? Lots of questions, no answers I'm afraid. Still, someone out there might take-on such a preposterous notion (if someone hasn't already done so). Good luck.

[Jetrock]

The other problem is uncoupling--part of the "flying switch" includes having some fool riding the back of one of the cars to disengage the coupler. I suppose that you could use that "DCC coupler" that raises the coupler physically to uncouple--it would still take some doing.

Ted:

silk train: high-priority freight train carrying a load of raw silk. These trains had priority over all other trains and had to get to market fast, with minimal stops.

livestock rules: Trains carrying livestock had to stop to water and exercise the livestock at regular intervals. Higher average speed meant fewer livestock stops.

Poling was common practice but has indeed been prohibited as a safety hazard--a guy has to stand there and hold that pole in place, with dire consequences if it pops free!

[Anonymous]

jetrock, thanks for your prompt response. I had mistakenly been calling the "silk service" a "hot shot." (priority express freight). I seem to remember white matker flags on the loco hauling such "express" runs. Now, I realize the isolated cattle pens along the right-of-way served more than the purpose of merely loading livestock. Often these pens seemed to appear at (or near) R.R. loco watering towers in the desert Southwest. I suppose the "drovers/crew" caboose accomodated the cattle handlers on the train.

Would an uncoupling ramp serve the purpose of a brakeman?" No doubt, the loco would need to make a panic "locked-up stop" to disengage [not satisfactory]. The only option would be to manually close the couplers before making the sprint over the facing point turnout [also, not satifactory]. This might be possible in the larger gauges but not practical in HO. Oh well, uncoupling ramps are ugly and who needs the inevitable damage to rolling stock, right?

Yes, I held my breath when I witnessed the "poling maneuver" in Kansas. Thanks again for the history lesson on R.R. terminology. Regards.

[nobullchitbids]

Jetrock appears to have answered the questions satisfactorily, so the only thing I will add is that "poling" could be done in two ways, only one of which was considered extremely hazardous. The hazardous way used a pole which commonly was carried on or under the tender (if you have seen PFM's HO model of the NKP Berkshire, it has one of these attached). The principal danger from the pole was that it could shatter under pressure and send the pieces away with the force of shrapnel, much to the dismay of anyone unfortunate enough to be standing in the area.

The other way to pole was with a poling car, and brass models of these have been made. They were common yard appliances at least through the 1920s, and because the equipment both was constructed precisely for such use, and because the car, itself, could serve as a shield, the level of hazard was much reduced.

And yes, the cars were pushed on adjoining tracks by positioning the poles in the poling pockets.

On the question of modeling the uncoupling portion of the flying-switch maneuver, the one possibility which comes to mind in HO is to use an electromagnet positioned in a swale located some distance before the points. The locomotive is lapped going into the swale (to bunch the slack) and the electromagnet activated; then the loco is unlapped and accelerated to enable the automatic uncoupling to occur (an electromagnet is essential to prevent false uncoupling of through runs).

As for the flying-train maneuver, I suppose if one installed enough of a downward grade in the siding, the consist would keep moving, but I've never actually tried anything like this myself (wouldn't it be spectacular, though, to actually pull it off?).

FYI: With a release from the owner, hogs could be placed on a more liberal schedule than other livestock. This is what made Union Pacific's "Farmer John" possible: The piggies were sprayed instead with water at regular intervals while crossing the desert -- pigs do not sweat (why they love to wallow) -- to keep them cool. The sprays sometimes contained disinfectant, which is why one often saw a white residue to a certain level of height on stock cars. Las Vegas' city fathers were more than happy to have their town removed from the list of required stops for the hog trains -- once they discovered that PEOPLE preferred their town for less legitimate reasons than cool drinks, the need to shut down the livestock pens (and eliminate the associated odors) became obvious.

The principal reason for the need to move silk trains quickly was the insurance premium charged for the shipment: Raw silk is highly perishable; special cars were used to transport it at passenger-train speeds, and a silk train could pull rank even on a named passenger limited. I understand that the silk trains were killed by DuPont, which invented nylon late in the 1920s. That and the Great Depression killed enough of the silk market that it became possible to refine what little left was needed closer to home.

[Anonymous]

nobullchitbids, once again an abudance of information is forthcoming from your vast reservoir of knowledge concerning R.R. practices and protocal. Thanks very much for the detailed information saving us so much research time "on our own." Regards.

[nobullchitbids]

See my new post in Trains for more esoterica.