Operations: What makes it fun for you?

[SpaceMouse]

Right now I am so focussed on building my son's Hogwarts layout that I have not spent much time on my 1890's layout--which at this point is just a digital plan view. But the Hogwarts is evolving. There are now facilities for delivering both passengers and freight to Hogwarts, Diagon Alley, and King's Cross station. If I go DCC, we can convert the trains storage area to a very small switching yard. This works for the kids (hopefully) because of the fantasy of Hogwarts.

But my layout looms heavy. I have designed it so far with a 6-track yard, a turntable, a separate but connected lumber operation, a paper mill, small town, and a passenger terminal. But I'm not sure how to set them up for maximum enjoyment.

And still I worry that there is not enough to keep it interesting.

So what do yo do that is fun? If it is operations or yard work please be specific.

What design mistakes did you make with your early layouts?

[cmrproducts]

I designed my layout using an actual railroad, Conrail! I had the Conrail ZTS (Zone Track Spots) Maps from 1984 and built the area from Driftwood to East Brady, PA. I also used the CT1000 PRR industries list book to help locate the numerous industries on this line.

Then I made a chart of the goods that would be shipped or received from/to each industry and then set up the pin system to move the cars.

We have an operating session every other Thursday night and usually have about 6 operators or more. The layout keeps everyone busy and using an actual railroad you know that the tracks are in the right spot, so the layout runs just like the prototype.

BOB H Clarion, PA

[TurboOne]

Hiya Chip,

glad hogwarts is progressing. I just added two DD40s, huge engines. They barely make it around the 22 curves. They are huge.

Fun is spending time with the kids doing anything with trains.

Today we are leaving for Vegas. Gonna play trains there, shop for trains and maybe even ride a real train. Also National Cheerleading Championship.

Take care

Tim

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TurboOne

National Cheerleading Championship.

Good Luck!

[cmrproducts]

I designed my layout using an actual railroad, Conrail! I had the Conrail ZTS (Zone Track Spots) Maps from 1984 and built the area from Driftwood to East Brady, PA. I also used the CT1000 PRR industries list book to help locate the numerous industries on this line.

Then I made a chart of the goods that would be shipped or received from/to each industry and then set up the pin system to move the cars.

We have an operating session every other Thursday night and usually have about 6 operators or more. The layout keeps everyone busy and using an actual railroad you know that the tracks are in the right spot, so the layout runs just like the prototype.

BOB H Clarion, PA

[simon1966]

I use a really basic operating priciple for the kids. I write a 5 or 6 car list in sequence that they have to put together in the yard with the switcher. Nothing very complicated, just a list like B.B.H.CH.G.C Where B=Boxcar, H=Hopper, CH=Covered Hopper, C=Caboose. etc. I don't even specify the car number or anything, they can use any car that meets the description. The only criteria is that they have to use the switcher to assemble the train and not use hands. Once the train is assembled, my other son (they are 5 and 7 and swap jobs) will then select a locomotive and set off to deliver the cars to various industries. On post it notes, they write the car type and place the post its around the layout according to where they think the various cars should be delivered. Then off they go. This is obviously really basic, but could eventually evolve into a more formal car forwarding system. So in answer to your question, having fun with the kids, is what makes it fun for me.

[cwclark]

a lot of modeler's have no plan for moving rolling stock around the layout..they take cars from one meaningless place to another...What i have found that is fun and puts meaning into the layout is by using index card way freight bills...what i do is plan a destination and a return track for each piece of rolling stock sorted by road name, car #, and car type..it usually involves three or four cards for the same piece of equipment so that they don't end up at the same place every time...i then divide them into two different catagories...one pile for "in the yard" and another pile for "out of the yard"...ok...so it's time to make a train out of the rolling stock in the yard..i'll grab a handful of cards from the in the yard pile ..let's say 25 -35 (that's all the cars my train will pull) so i'll take the cards and then start sorting out the rolling stock out of the yard tracks until a train is made...each of the cards has a destination on it and that's where the train will go and make the deliveries according to the destinations on the cards...once the train is completed delivering the cars to the various industries, the cards go into the "out of the yard" pile...now it's time to pick up the cars and put them back in the yard..i'll then take the "out of the yard "cards and send out another train to make the pick-ups and deliveries then bring them back to the yard and sort them back onto the yard tracks...there is a track return number on the cards so that that is where the rolling stock will go when it returns to the yard...the cards then go into the "in the yard" pile and the system starts all over again...this way, there is a system to delivering and picking up rolling stock and it makes it a whole lot of fun when there is a system in place that brings meaning to delivering and sorting out the rolliong stock in a model railroad empire...chuck

[orsonroy]

I'm a runner/railfan, so I prefer time freights to locals. My favorite form of operations involves a long mainline and traffic I've got to watch out for. So long as I keep an eye on the timetable and my orders, I generally don't screw up (too much!) and cause headaches for other trains. There's nothing quite like successfully running a 50 car freight across 13 scale miles of mainline, dodging other trains the entire time! I compare it more to Wargaming than to other aspects of this hobby.

When I operate local freights, I prefer to switch either one big industry, or work with switchlists and several towns. Having one big industry gives you a lot to do in one spot, while switchlists aren't monotonous (as four cycle waybills for known locations can be).

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cmrproducts


BOB H Clarion, PA

Are you talking about your club? I've seen pictures of the Clarion Club. In fact, my club, the Indiana club, have a visit scheduled with the Clarion Club in a couple months.

[dwRavenstar]

Heyas,

When I constructed my N-scale layout I was basically answering a scenery creation Jones and the running of trains was an acceptable excuse for filling the attic with miles of mountainous vistas. I'm currently planning a dual shelf HO pike (3x12 lower with 2.5 x 12 upper, fiddle yards and storage at either "end" of the run) with a simulated branch line delivery exchange between 6-8 outlets on the two levels.

While there will be plenty of opportunity for mainline runs the main focus will be on actual operations using a waybill system. Rather than seeing the waybill plan as a designation of cars being shipped to specific places (creating that "ho-hum" routine) I've understood it as an assignment of goods to be delivered with a random assignment of containers used to accompli***he task.

Scenery will naturally be a major consideration in the new effort but operations will surely eliminate the stagnant aspects I'd encountered with the earlier layout. It's sort of like I'd developed an affinity to coffee (to the point of near addiction) and one day discovered the joy of glazed doughnuts as a delicious extra. [:I]

Bob H : I'm originally from Huntingdon, Pa (moved to SoDak 3 years or so ago) and we're coming back for my daughter's graduation from Clarion University in May. Is there any chance I might be able to arrange a visit to your club layout while I'm back there? We're scheduled for the first weekend in May. Let me know here or feel free to email me. Thanks in advance.

Spacemouse : don't think I forgot there's another Quaker Stater to say heya to [tup]

Catch ya's around the corner later

Dave (dwRavenstar)

[jrbernier]

I like way freight operation, and my layout reflects this. I have 6 staging tracks(not enough), and run 2 through freights/day, each way. They pickup/setout at a small 4 track yard. From that yard, 2 way freights(patrols) work tmainline towns and a branch line. I also have a mixed train that works from staging to the end of the branch. the branch generates about 6 cars a day of traffic. The other big traffic generator is a Swift meat packing plant that is switched by the yard job. I can run everything with just myself in a single threaded sequential operation if need, but 3-4 operators can enjoy an evening of low key operating.
I was in a large club many years ago and we had operating sessions every Sunday evening. No one wanted the yard jobs as you worked your tail off(just like the real thing). Newbies usually ran the thru traffic(a good learning experiance), and the experianced operators got there early to mark up for the way freights. The poor suckers who got there late wound up drilling the yard lead. I remember that the Milwaukee Road had a small industry yard at South Mpls - it was called the 'Garden Yard' due to it's size. The crew who had to switch across the streets called it 'weeding the garden'!

Jim Bernier

[Anonymous]

I still have yet to complete my railroad let you know when it is done.

[cmrproducts]

Spacemouse

Yes, I am a member of the Clarion Club but I am talking about my home layout. Ask Berry and Ben about it at your next club meeting. They have been there and operated. So have a number of others from the Club!

BOB H Clarion, PA

[Anonymous]

My layout will revolve around mainline action with little switching. I'm a big railfan so I guess that's why I have a love for mainlines. Anyways, switchers make up trains in the yard, the trains leave and go to their destinations.

[SpaceMouse]

What do you mean by mainline action?

[fiatfan]

What makes it fun for me is the switching. I make up the trains using a card system, put together a train, and send the train off to its destination.. When iot arrives at the destination, I get to take the train apart, spot the cars at the approriate industry, and pick up the cars ready to be sent off to their next destination.

I run short trains, so it doesn't take long to put together or take apart a train. I have several spots for switching so there is a great deal of variety.

Tom

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TurboOne

Hiya Chip,

glad hogwarts is progressing. I just added two DD40s, huge engines. They barely make it around the 22 curves. They are huge.

Fun is spending time with the kids doing anything with trains.

Today we are leaving for Vegas. Gonna play trains there, shop for trains and maybe even ride a real train. Also National Cheerleading Championship.

Take care

Tim

a little off topic, but how do those DD40s look/run/pull. The only ones i have seen are the old athearn blue boxes. Does anyone still make them?

As for operations. Im really into that kind of thing. Watching trains run around is great, but in my opinion running a railroad like a real railroad brings it to a whole nother level. I use the car routing system from micro-mark. But there are lots of methods out there. My layout is small, Its around the walls in a 10x11 room. The shelf is 2 feet wide. Lots of linear space but not much depth. Sure beats my old 4x8 though[:D]. Anyway, I've got a double track main, One normally for passenger service. The other connects to all the yards and spurs. There is a main 8 track classification yard for building trains conected to smaller yards on each side. One is an engine/car maintanence place, the other services industries. Also, there is another yard in the layout's main town that services a bunch of industries. There is an 18 foot passing siding that doubles as a runaround for the 2 track coal loader accross the tracks from the mine. Over by the classification yard is a 2 track coal dealership. It uses the classification yard as a runaround. If i could get a good picture i would post my track plan, but hopefully i have described it well enough that you get the picture

good luck[:)]

[Anonymous]

SM,

I have a small ops layout in my basement for testing and practicing swith moves. I belong to a local club which has a huge layout. We do at leat one car forwarding / prototypical ops session a month. That's what I really enjoy. I love the challenge of trying to run an HO layout like the 1:1 scale roads. We work on a schedule and usually have about a dozen members involved in a session. That keeps me interested.

LP

[Jetrock]

"mainline action" = running full-sized trains on the mainline, rather than focusing on local switching.

Individual operating schemes are most fun when they match someone's preferences in real-world trainwatching.

Those who are more interested in simply watching the trains go past will prefer a more "mainline" style, where one builds trains basically to run from one end of the layout to the other. This can still be a very sophisticated operating scheme, if one wants it to be--sticking to a timetable (certain trains have to run at certain times) and building consists to reflect the kind of trains you want to see go by takes some skill. Main-line operation emphasizes trains that didn't stop much. or at least the part of the line where they didn't necessarily stop: coal trains going from the mine to the powerplant, express passenger trains, or "Red Ball" freight. Think big engines here--that's where 4884bigboy gets his thrills!

Those who are more interested in the fine details of railroad economics and the nitty-gritty tend to lean towards switching--the spotting and picking up of cars at various sites along the route. On real railroads, a train that specialized in doing little but dropping off and picking up cars was known as the "way freight." They were known by other names too, like "peddler" and others less family-oriented. Unlike the "Red Ball" expresses, which blew past minor stops, a way freight actually went and got (or dropped off) the cargo that inter-city trains took out or brought in.

Think of it like an office: Mail that is coming into or out of the building is handled by a separate mailman that goes in and out of the building. He drops it off at the mailroom, where it is sorted by floor, department, etcetera. Finally, a guy with a cart goes to each office from the mailroom, dropping off and picking up individuals' mail.

The mailman, going rapidly from building to building, is the red ball express. The mailroom guy who sorts the mail is the yard switcher. The guy with the cart who hands you your mail is the way freight.

One of the nice things about model railroading is that we can choose which of these operations we want to focus on, and what we want to ignore or minimize.

Personally I'm in love with the way freight. Where some folks watched in wonder at the big monster engine streaking past with hundreds of cars, I was always riveted to the dusty, one-lung switcher pulling a handful of cars around town, backing and filling and zigging and zagging through grimy industrial complexes.

My layout is designed around that motif: fortunately, my prototype, the Sacramento Northern, brought the local way freight into sharp relief here in town. There are no "through freights"--all cars are broken down in yards at either end of town, and a succession of poky little diesels carry cars to local industries, or to interchanges, or to the yard at the other end of town to head out as part of another freight train.

Right now my layout is only half built--one end's yard and some industries. I operate using what is called a "wheel report", which is simpler than a car-card system. It's basically a stack of cards with a matrix--one axis indicates types of cars, the other possible destinations. At the intersection of these axes are some numbers, indicating numbers of cars.

To operate, I pull one of a stack of wheel reports. It might indicate (for example): 2 refrigerator cars to the cannery, 1 boxcar to the almond plant, 1 tank car and 1 boxcar to the freight station (the freight station is also an engine terminal, which periodically needs diesel fuel.) I run a switcher to the yard, pull whatever cars of appropriate type are available in the yard, and stick a caboose on the end. The assembled train leaves the yard, stopping at each industry. I drop off the called-for number of cars, and at the same time pick up an equal numbe of cars (if available) from those industries--whatever was left there after the last session. This keeps the number of cars on the layout relatively constant.

So I'd recommend giving some thought to what you like to see on real-world railroads. Is it the roar of the mainline freight going by, or the boom of a string of cars being assembled? Make sure there is room for a little of both on your layout--even on my "switching only" layout, I have one car card where all the cars in the consist are just destined for the other end of the line, making for a fast procession of cars from one end to the other!--and you'll have the opportunity to try out operation as you like it.

The John Armstrong book you have gives some hints--but there are other books on operation that explain in greater depth WHY you're bothering to plan track for realistic operation!

[SpaceMouse]

Thanks Jetrock. More to think about.

[cmrproducts]

Well I must be a switcher type as running the main seems to get little done in the way of making the railroad produce revenue, but to each there own.

I am not putting anyone down but running the main seems (to me anyway) is similar to the old Lionel roundy round layout under the Christmas tree.

I have operated on many layouts large and small and I have a fairly large layout of my own. During my regular OPs sessions I cannot get my operators to run the through traffic (main line runs), everyone wants to do local switching or run the yards.

Maybe is has something to do with the area you are modeling (western PA) and all we had were locals that ran 15mph if that. We never saw mainline running except in ERIE and Altoona/Horseshow Curve!

I have operated on a large layout in the Erie area and it is set up for mainline running. The owner sets up the trains and there is a schedule to keep. After having run my trains on my home layout trying to run a train flat out seems strange and dangerous!!!

And when this Erie based layout owner comes to visit my layout he cannot get the hang of slowing down, so has earned the nickname “LEAD FOOT LOU”.

To each his own but if you come to operate on my layout be prepared to run slow coal drags and do a lot of local switching!

BOB H Clarion, PA

[ksax73]

I like to operate my passenger trains according to thier prototype's schedules. What I will like to eventually do is to use computer interface to keep track of the number of circuits my train makes so that I can keep track of scale milage and add a new challenge to operations by trying to keep my trains on time. This is of course long range planning.

What also makes it fun for me is kitbashing my own models and it's even more fun when you see it take shape in front of your eyes!

I am still on my first layout but it's hardly what I call a layout due to space confines and its location (the floor). The advantage I have is seeing mistakes others have made and learn from those mistakes, apply ideas that I have gained from forums like these as well as friends who are more fortunate than I am in this hobby so that when I'm ready to build my layout, there should be little trouble. I also have time to draft up different plans and options which can be modified at later dates.