Raised floor

[Anonymous]

Well, I have hit a wall in layout progress. Or actually a floor... My layout is about 7' off the ground and its time to build a raised floor before i begin yard construction. I already have the basic floorplan and square footage I need, but im no carpenter. If you could give me ideas on how to build the framework, or better yet pictures of plans or the real thing, I would greatly apreciate it. [:)]

Thanks.

[AntonioFP45]

Hello JPM,

Check out this link: http://www.all-model-railroading.co.uk/amr/index.htm

On the left side, click on "Benchwork". May be of some help. [;)]

I believe that some of our fellow forum members are sharp when it comes to benchwork. Hopefully some will chime in with info or links that may also be helpful to you.

Cheers!

[Anonymous]

well, its not so much benchwork, the layout has been in place for a few months, im just building a floor to stand on. Of course, i dont see why layout benchwork couldnt make a floor too.

[rrinker]

Floors need plenty of bracing - look at the first floor of your house from below, you'll see the diagonals between the floor joists that keep the whole thing from from collapsing.
Check the article in MR on Joe Fugate's layout, since he built a raised floor for his mushroom design. Or just ask here - he posts here.

--Randy

[Big_Boy_4005]

The key question is how wide is the floor space?

I have raised floors in my train room, and they are very simple and sturdy, but they are only 4 feet wide. What I have done is make 4' x 8' frames out of 2 x 4's, with joists every 16". I then place the frames up on blocks cut to the proper height, and secure them to the legs of the layout.

If you need them to be free standing, the legs will need some bracing. Finally, cover the frames with 1/2" OSB, then carpet or tile. These platforms do not need to have the heavy construction that the floor of your house has, as long as you use enough legs to transfer the load to the ground. I use 6 legs per 4 x 8 platform, corners and the middle of the long sides. I weigh over 300 pounds, and there is no problem.

[AntonioFP45]

Big_Boy_4005!

Wow! You have a Serious Looking Empire there! Nice!

[nslakediv]

are you just building a 1foot or 2 foot wide step all the way around or are you building the hole room up? how high is the fllor going to be? what kind of budget do you have as building materials are quite expensive now a days? answers these questions and I will try to help you out.

[tatans]

Am I reading this right?? layout is 7 FEET?? off the floor? I assume you have an 8 foot ceiling, this leaves 1 foot between the layout and the ceiling, this does not make sense, I cannot fathom this scene, can you explain, thanks

[jfugate]

I have a raised floor on my HO Siskiyou Line. It's a mushroom design, which works the best if you have a raised floor on one side to keep the two decks at a similar relative height from the floor.

I built my raised floor by building two 10" high stud walls out of 2 x 4s, and then built a 36" stud wall out of 2 x 4 s and laid that across the top of the two 10" walls to form the base for the support. This made the raised floor 36" wide. All studs are on 16" centers as is typical in stud wall construction.

Next I put 3/4" floor underlayment particle board on the top to form the floor surface, then I laid a tight weave carpet down. On the sides of the raised floor you need to nail 1/4" plywood to strengthen the floor from side-to-side sheering forces and to keep it from flexing.

Use 16 penny nails for the stud construction and it should be nice and sturdy.

This can be hard to visualize, so I give a piece-by-piece description of how this all goes together using a 3D computer model in volume 2 of my Siskiyou Line video series on my layout's design and construction. Here's an image from that computer model sequence:


If you look closely, you can see the raised floor construction in this picture that I describe above.

Or if you think the video might help, you can go to http://model-trains-video.com for more info on it.

[Leon Silverman]

I agree with Big Boy 4005. Underfloor joists in house require bracing because they are spanning large distances, typically at least 16 feet without any other support. The joists spaced 16'' apart should be fine as long as the joists span the four foot distance instead of the eight foot width.

[Anonymous]

My floor is 8x11 feet, im raising basically the whole room, the middle will be my workbench area. The floor will be 2 feet high. Thanks for the ideas, another question. what should i build the top out of. Im looking for the cheapest option of either plywood, 8x10s or particle board.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tatans

Am I reading this right?? layout is 7 FEET?? off the floor? I assume you have an 8 foot ceiling, this leaves 1 foot between the layout and the ceiling, this does not make sense, I cannot fathom this scene, can you explain, thanks

I was a little baffled by those numbers too. My highest tracks will be 6 feet off the concrete, the ceiling is 8 feet, and the platforms are 1 foot high. I may also provide some small step stools for an extra boost in areas where there will be switching on the upper deck.

I think Joe and I are pretty much describing the same thing as far as construction materials and design, a couple of minor differences. I use a much heavier style of benchwork than most, including 2x4's as legs. That allows me to use the platforms to tie everything together. This method works for me, but it may not be a good idea if you are using a lighter style of benchwork. In that situation it may be better to have the platform's supports braced and keep them free standing.

[Bikerdad]

Use Oriented Strand Board or plywood for the underlayment. There is even plywood specifically designed for use as subflooring, it would be an excellent choice, but it's pricier than the usual ACX plys. You don't want to use particle board or MDF. They are very heavy (25% more than plywood) and don't handle dynamic loads nearly as well as plywood

One thing though, I don't understand why you're raising the floor of the entire room. Why not just lower the layout?

[Anonymous]

Still not clear. Are you raising the entire room's floor by 2 feet? Or do you just need the aisles raised 2 feet? If you need the entire floor, you should consider building a 2x4 supporting wall around the perimeter 1'-4" above the existing floor. On top of that lay 2x8 joists at 16" on center and some 3/4" decking. You will then have, in effect, a new floor, independant of the lower one, and just as strong. Since you are building a new structural floor, check you building codes for blocking required. The IBC requires the blocking mentioned above for joists 2x10 or larger.

If all you need is a raised platform within the aisles, then build a 2x4 or 2x3 kneewall along your benchwork 1'-6" high and lay 2x6 joists across the short distance. No blocking is necessary. Use 1/2" plywood for decking. This is more than sufficient for a short span of 3 or 4 feet unless you plan to park your piano or your railroads file cabinets on it.

Wayne

[tatans]

I'm still baffled, a layout that is over 6 or 7 feet off the floor with only 1 foot at the ceiling?? what is the reason, what is the access to the track etc, what about the 6 feet of space under the layout? I need some pictures, this is a complete mystery to me, I thought a layout 4 feet high was extreme.

[bogp40]

JPM335
I am also at at loss, wondering why the entire 8'x11' floor area is being raised 2ft. Is there some elevation change entering the room?. A garage w/ an extremely high ceiling? The space must have a ceiling height of at least 10ft. Please fill us in on the details. Very curious as to your situation.
Bob K.

[Anonymous]

If you want to see pictures, click on the railimages link in my profile. The layout is around the walls, i didnt want to deal with a liftout for the door so i put the layout right at doorsill level. I have decided to raise the whole floor because i will use the middle of the room as a workbench area.

[Anonymous]

as for it being so close to the cieling, im only 14 so its not so bad. Ill probably be the only one operating it anyway.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Well Joe, I feel a little silly for not figuring out to look at your photos. In choosing to avoid the door, and some kind of duckunder or liftout, you may have really sold yourself short in terms of total layout, and in the process made it more difficult to construct.

That said, what's done is done. So, you want to raise the floor. The dimensions are 8' x 11'. You can still build the whole thing out of 2 x 4's, but you have a couple of choices to make. Using Joe Fugate's description of framing a stud wall with 16" centers, you could make one large piece to cover the area, or do it with 3 sections. If you have room to swing the hammer, a single unit may be best. This however raises the question of being able to carry large materials through the house. Can you get a 12' 2x4 or a 4x8 sheet of anything in there?

When it comes to raising what you have built, the number of legs and their bracing may be more important than originally thought. It looks like you have a hardwood floor in the room. Individual legs may create more of a point load than the true floor can withstand. It is unlikely, but better to be safe than sorry. By creating 3 little stud walls 20" high, and spacing them across the 8' dimension, you can distribute the load over all of the floor joists.

Add angle bracing to keep the platform from wanting to fall off the risers, and that should do it. Finally, put your floor on on the framework.

[grayfox1119]

Joe, the best way to add a wooden floor to a basement location, is to use PT (Pressure Treated) 2x6 joist across the short span of the room. In other words, if your room is say 10 feet wide by 20 feet long, you would place the joist on end, across the 10 foot dimension. The reason for using PT lumber on the floor, is because basements are usually damp, or can have water leaks, which will rot standard grade wood, also, insect investation is also possible.
Then, you would place plywood flooring on top of the 2x6 floor joists. You should use at least 5/8" thick plywood for flooring, 3/4" would be best, but plywood is not cheap these days at $30-$35 a sheet.
The floor joists need to be spaced 16" on center (O.C.) I would also use deck screws to install the plywood.
If you need more height than what the 2x6 joist will give you ( 5 1/2 " + 3/4" ), then you could use 2x8 or 2x10, or 2x12 joists.

As you mentioned that you are not knowledgable yet on carpentry, when I was your age, I bought a good book on carpentry, and it was the best investment that I ever made. Check it out Joe,
Good luck,

[tatans]

jpm335: I just went to your photos, it really IS 7 feet off the floor, I guess those 8 foot ladders come in handy just to look at it.. This is a pretty daunting task for a 14 year old(how TALL are you?) I think you should refer to a "ceiling" layout to describe it . Keep us posted as to your progress(more layout photos) and it's nice to see someone who can spell. keep up the good work.

[rrinker]

How about a raised floor, about 2' wide, around the layout area, with steps up to it. A kick edge on the 'open' side to warn people of the doozey step coming up, and leave the rest of the basement floor where the workbench will be at 'regular' level.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Guys, do we even know if this is in a basement? It looks like a bedroom because of the window in the photo. Does the room need to serve any other purpose beside the layout and workbench?

[bogp40]

JPM335
From the pics of the room, the 30" door appears to be in-swinging and near one corner. I can't make out what type of flooring you have- hardwwod or carpeted. Is this room ever to be returned to it's origional condition? Just not sure how much construction or destruction repairs you want to handle if the room has to be restored. This would have bearing on how to tackle your floor dilema. If no real damage is allowed the only way to raise the floor is build individual 4x4 or 4x8 sections(2x4s w/ 1/2" or 5/8" ply). Large coffee table mosaic..Use 2x4 legs every 4ft/ corners and brace. Size the sections to fit the room allowing for the door swing and at least 1(12") step,if not 2(8"). This method would give you a half decent floor, but needs considerable bracing and is guaranteed to squeak and creak like crazy. The alternative if you don't mind some holes in the drywall/ plaster is to raise the floor with a more rugged framework of 2x6s attached to the walls. Install the (ledger boards) 11ft long 2x6s at 23 1/4" up from the floor using 3 1/2" drywall screws into the studs-locate stud centers use min 2 screws/ stud. Layout joists 16" on center starting from the wall away from the door. layout the entry area for the door swing plus step. Set joist hangers on ledgers, double check the layout that 4ft and 8ft land on a joist center from the wall. Cut and install the short 8ft 2x6s and lay 4x8 tongue and groove ply w/ deck screws/ drywall screws. Don't glue ply or demolition will be a total sawzall nightmare if/ when the time comes. You may need 1 or 2 support legs at the area that is headed off for the entry/ door to stop the bounce. I just hope one of these methods can help you out. It is great to see young and enthusiastic model railroaders and I am glad to help.
Bob K.