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questions on a brass piece

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questions on a brass piece
Posted by NVSRR on Sunday, June 25, 2023 10:21 PM

So this D16SB 4-4-0 is a GEm models that was converted to DCC. Tsunami 2 with sound.   the 3 volt grain of wheat bulb is burnt out. no biggie.    I do need to get into the boiler.  Needs weight over the drivers. How do I get into the boiler?

The tender trucks have tram issues.  the trucks keep twisting if the screws are snugged down.  I cannt get them to stay so it keeps all the wheels in tram and level.  if i loosen the screws , then the trucks sit fine. Tighten, there seams to be only a little more than one full thread turn holding it in as it is.  but the screws holding the side frames to bolster back out and it falls apart. The out of tram also binds the axles.  it struggles just pulling the tender.  Is it possible to take bees wax and use that as a thread lock? That would let the screw stay a little less tight so the truck side frames can float and let the wheels sit even and in tram.    

 

Shane

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, June 26, 2023 6:16 AM

NVSRR
So this D16SB 4-4-0

I have no experience with brass 4-4-0s, but I will do my best.

NVSRR
How do I get into the boiler?

Typically, remove the two screws behind the cab and the screw for the pilot truck and the boiler will come off. In this boiler most of the open space will be in the front. If you fill that with pourable shot the locomotive will be heavier, but the weight might all be over the pilot truck, which might not help.

NVSRR
The tender trucks have tram issues.

I replace the trucks on my brass tenders with something that rolls better. I usually use plastic frame trucks with polished metal wheels. I add wipers for electrical pick-up on all eight wheels.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by snjroy on Monday, June 26, 2023 10:00 AM

As a last resort, you could also install all-wheel power pickup on the tender, and put some bullfrog snot on two drivers (two on the same axle). I've done this on a few lightweight brass items and it solved the problem.

Simon

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Posted by NVSRR on Monday, June 26, 2023 11:53 AM

Thanks Kevin.    I should have guessed the boiler was that easy to remove.

 

I forgot to mention that sombody in the past (who ever did the original  conversion) did add wipers and make the tender truck all wheel pickup.  

 

I was wondering about plastic tender trucks.  Are there any matching plastic trucks out there?

 

SHane

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by mvlandsw on Monday, June 26, 2023 7:28 PM

A small bit of white glue, canopy glue, or even epoxy on the threads will usually prevent screws from backing out on their own, but still allow them to be removed if necessary.

Slightly longer screws would allow them to be tightened in the hole. You could file them to get just the right length or use washers under the head to get the sideframe motion that you desire.

Mark

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Posted by wrench567 on Monday, June 26, 2023 8:24 PM

  That's a nice looking D16sb. 

  I always add as much weight I can to my brass locomotives. Lead sheet works great. I have lined the cab roofs, cab floors, rolled tightly and used in place of the zink weights, and even on my B6sb filled the ash pan.

  The tender trucks can be problematic. Are the axles pointed or like most brass cylindrical? I have had to ream out the axle journals on a few brass trucks. Also used the purple Loctight on a few side frame screws. The purple is made for small screws and a screw driver can loosen it. Also consider longer screws if needed. And toss away the springs on the truck pivots. Polish the mating surfaces and put it to work.

     Pete.

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  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, June 26, 2023 10:08 PM

NVSRR
Are there any matching plastic trucks out there?

I do not have enough knowledge of the prototype to answer this.

There are lots and lots of truck options out there. I just get mine from my scrap box.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by Pruitt on Monday, June 26, 2023 10:22 PM

Whatever you decide to do, I don't think beeswax is the answer. It would act more like a lubricant.

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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Monday, June 26, 2023 11:59 PM

Could you provide a picture of the trucks from the side? 

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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Tuesday, June 27, 2023 12:14 AM

Ok, this SPF (Slobberin' Pennsy Freak) can't resist posting a bit of info about the PRR D16 class - the Pennsy's last Americans. An ideal locomotive for modeling branch line service and short lines as PRR sold off their older power to connecting short 'uns. I got the chance to ride behind #1223 when it was in sevice with te Strasburg Rail Road

These locomotives were originally conceived as an enlargement of the earlier class P (later reclassified D14) and were an extremely large and powerful locomotive for the period. Breaking with the traditional 4-4-0 layout with a low-slung boiler and the firebox between the frames, the class L design had a large Belpaire firebox above the frames and a large high-mounted boiler. The high center of gravity proved to offer an exceptional high-speed ride.

The design was the product of three men; general superintendent of motive power Frank D. Casaneve, chief mechanical engineer Axel S. Vogt, and chief of motive power Theodore N. Ely, Casaneve supervising the overall design, Vogt perfecting the mechanical details and Ely paying more attention to the appearance and external detail.

Two versions were conceived, reflecting the variety of terrain the PRR traversed; a high-drivered version for flat terrain with 80 in (2,030 mm) wheels and a low-drivered version for hilly terrain with 68 in (1,730 mm) wheels. The versions had tractive effort ratings of 17,500 lbf (77.84 kN) and 20,600 lbf (91.63 kN), respectively. In the reclassification of 1895, the 68-inch drivered locomotives became class D16 and the 80-inch became D16a.

Seventy-three of the high-drivered D16a subclass were built between 1895 and 1898, and six of class D16 in 1896. A slightly revised low-drivered subclass D16b was constructed to the tune of 262 examples between 1900 and 1908, as well as 12 high-drivered D16c in 1900 and 45 high-drivered D16d between 1900 and 1910.[5]

As the American (4-4-0) type was displaced from top-flight service to secondary duties, tractive effort became more important than top speed. Large numbers of the high-drivered locomotives were converted to low-drivered; 76 D16a and D16c were converted to subclass D16, while 9 of class D16d were converted to D16b specification; this left only a small number of locomotives with 80-inch drivers.

In 1914, the PRR experimentally rebuilt D16b #178 in the Altoona Shops, giving it a superheater for greater power and efficiency. This necessitated replacing the slide-valve equipped cylinders, the lubrication of which was incompatible with the hotter, dryer superheated steam, with piston valves and slightly larger cylinders. Steam pressure was reduced by 10 psi (0.7 bar) to 175 psi (12.07 bar). Tractive effort increased to 23,900 lbf (106.31 kN) from 20,600 lbf (91.63 kN). The rebuilt locomotive was classified D16sb, the "s" referring to superheat.

The conversion proving a success, over the next few years 241 locomotives of various D16 sub-classes were converted to D16sb configuration, with 68-inch drivers.[5] In addition, a number of high-drivered locomotives were rebuilt; these were classified D16sd.

Gauge 4 ft 8+12 in (1,435 mmstandard gauge
Leading dia. 36 in (914 mm)
Driver dia. 68 in (1,727 mm)
Wheelbase 22 ft 9.5 in (6.95 m)
Length 62 ft 5+38 in (19.03 m)
Height 14 ft 5+12 in (4.41 m)
Axle load 51,800 lb (23.5 tonnes)
Adhesive weight 98,500 lb (44.7 tonnes)
Loco weight 141,100 lb (64.0 tonnes)
Fuel type Coal
Fuel capacity 26,000 lb (11.8 tonnes)
Water cap. 5,600 US gal (21,200 L)
Firebox:
 • Firegrate area
33.23 sq ft (3.09 m2)
Boiler pressure 175 lbf/in2 (1.21 MPa)
Heating surface:
 • Tubes and flues
1,219 sq ft (113.25 m2)
 • Firebox 181 sq ft (16.82 m2)
Superheater: ‚Äč
 • Type Schmidt
 • Heating area 253 sq ft (23.50 m2)
Cylinders Two
Cylinder size 20.5 in × 26 in (521 mm × 660 mm)
Valve gear Stephenson
hidePerformance figures
Tractive effort 23,900 lbf (106.31 kN)
Factor of adh. 4.1

 

 

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Posted by NVSRR on Tuesday, June 27, 2023 1:18 PM

Here is a pic close up of the trucks requested.

A better sidw shot.     I did get the tender trucks to sit level now with the side frames adjusted.   It rolls down grade on its own now.  before the axles were bound up enough that it would just sit on the grade.     no more messing with the trucks needed.   I did also take those springs off. seamed to help.   Looking at the engine, I got the boiler off. and found who ever did the conversion also packed out the weight.   all i could do was change the light bulb and add lube to the motor.  and worm gear.  

I found the that all the weight sits on the front axle.  pushing down on the cab shows a good amount of verticle play in the rear axle. so there is no weight sitting on that axle at all. .  only option is to get some snot and put it on the drivers of the front axle.  last thing I can do.     I did get a set of old round house 34' overton cars as the pass train for it's excursion train.   it should be able to handle those five cars. 

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

  • Member since
    May 2019
  • 1,306 posts
Posted by BEAUSABRE on Tuesday, June 27, 2023 4:34 PM

A Wrong Island loco!

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Posted by NVSRR on Tuesday, June 27, 2023 6:15 PM

I have to repaint the tender. Something with the paint isn't right.   It started glossy but as I handled it, it got dull, the gloss disappeared With dirt embedded in it.   Even after washing it.  The decals are all crinkled up bad and cracked too.     

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

  • Member since
    May 2020
  • 1,019 posts
Posted by wrench567 on Tuesday, June 27, 2023 10:09 PM

  Glad to hear you got the tender straightened out.

  If it were mine, I would add lead to the cab. A false roof and floor covering works great. Once painted you won't even tell it's there. I make a card stock pattern. Cut to fit tight. Then cut the lead sheet and double stick carpet tape makes it almost permanent.

       Pete.

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Posted by wrench567 on Tuesday, June 27, 2023 10:11 PM

BEAUSABRE

A Wrong Island loco!

 

    Ha, Ha. I love it.

    Pete.

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Posted by NVSRR on Wednesday, June 28, 2023 12:24 PM

wrench567   already been done. The last owner did a really good job that couldnt tell until i had the boiler off and was looking at how to add weight.   cannt see it when it is together.  also painted it.  

 

Shane

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

  • Member since
    May 2020
  • 1,019 posts
Posted by wrench567 on Thursday, June 29, 2023 9:49 AM

   You should have plenty of weight for pulling your consist. My brass K5s has pulled nine HW Bachman and five Walthers B60 cars on the club tracks without a problem. Those Bachman cars are not very free rollers at all.

 My brass Sunset 2-10-0 I1sa has single handedly pulled 89 hoppers and cabin many times. Even on the long grade .

     Pete.

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