Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Fantasy (What if) paint schemes

8026 views
31 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 28 posts
Fantasy (What if) paint schemes
Posted by NYBob on Thursday, September 29, 2022 2:08 PM

Never saw a discussion about the hobby companies producing engines with the what if they didn't merge etc. paint schemes. This is different from the heritage pain't jobs. Opinions?

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 16,367 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, September 29, 2022 4:03 PM

NYBob
Opinions?

I guess you are asking about the "foobie" paint schemes, such as a PRR P5a electric in New York Central two-tone gray and such?

I don't think I'm in the market for such a thing but apparently there IS a market for such items. I suppose you could include some of the Holiday "special edition" paint jobs, then go into (you name it) NFL, state capitals, NASCAR, ad-nauseum.

Ahem...

 BLI_crop by Edmund, on Flickr

 Kadee-xmas-2021 by Edmund, on Flickr

I'm OK with such things as long as the manufacturer specifies that it is not an accurate representation of a real prototype. If they can make some money off it and offset the cost of bringing new models to market, so be it.

Regards, Ed

  • Member since
    September 2022
  • From: Idaho
  • 35 posts
Posted by OERRFailRanner on Thursday, September 29, 2022 4:29 PM

I dont remember if they ever mde them (I think they were always pre-mergers) but I feel the need to have a manufacturer make a SPSF paint scheme line

Also, I think movie trains would also be kinda cool, like the sierra mountain line from Runaway Train! or (for the other kiddos) some AWVR

Honestly I think 'what if' paint schemes are a good idea

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • 2,572 posts
Posted by John-NYBW on Thursday, September 29, 2022 4:31 PM

Didn't the Southern Pacific and Santa Fe produce a SPSF (or was it SFSP) paint scheme on some of their locos before the ICC turned thumbs down on their merger plans? My fuzzy memory of this is that the paint scheme was red and yellow. 

  • Member since
    February 2021
  • 1,110 posts
Posted by crossthedog on Thursday, September 29, 2022 5:00 PM

John-NYBW
Didn't the Southern Pacific and Santa Fe produce a SPSF (or was it SFSP) paint scheme on some of their locos before the ICC turned thumbs down on their merger plans? My fuzzy memory of this is that the paint scheme was red and yellow.

Your wish is my command, John.

Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.

  • Member since
    February 2021
  • 1,110 posts
Posted by crossthedog on Thursday, September 29, 2022 5:04 PM

OERRFailRanner
I feel the need to have a manufacturer make a SPSF paint scheme line

Your wish is my command, FailRanner.

Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.

  • Member since
    February 2021
  • 1,110 posts
Posted by crossthedog on Thursday, September 29, 2022 5:13 PM

I guess I should disclaim: the model shown was custom painted (by a modeller named Eric Miller), NOT produced by a manufacturer.

And wow, those colors are mighty vivid mustard and ketchup. Would you call this a McGeep? Merger King? Wendiesel?

Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • 1,950 posts
Posted by NVSRR on Thursday, September 29, 2022 5:28 PM

 The spsf paint kob was called kodachrome  after the slide film box for kodak's slide film.  Same colors.  Here is Athearn's version of that 

 

Shane

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • 1,950 posts
Posted by NVSRR on Thursday, September 29, 2022 5:29 PM

on ebay the other there were a bunch of steam engines painted for conrail.

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

  • Member since
    February 2018
  • From: Danbury Freight Yard
  • 459 posts
Posted by OldEngineman on Thursday, September 29, 2022 9:59 PM

One AEM-7 I didn't get to run:

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • 1,553 posts
Posted by PRR8259 on Thursday, September 29, 2022 10:16 PM

Back during the 1980's Model Diecasting (Roundhouse) actually DID offer several limited edition SPSF freight cars, factory painted.  They were still kits like everything else then, but you could get those freight cars with multiple road numbers AND there were some cars that were wishful thinking paint schemes, not factually correct on that particular car.  They are rare but do turn up at the train shows.

John

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 569 posts
Posted by drgwcs on Thursday, September 29, 2022 11:32 PM

Not sure if this counts but my first train that I got when I was five was a Marx set with a Penn Central steam loco.....

  • Member since
    August 2020
  • 581 posts
Posted by Southgate 2 on Friday, September 30, 2022 1:25 AM

I like SP, and all of its paint schemes to varying degrees, with that one glaring exception,  Kodachrome! 

That's probably why the ICC banned the merger! Laugh

Dan

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 1,190 posts
Posted by mvlandsw on Friday, September 30, 2022 2:05 AM

After the merger was rejected someone said that SPSF was short for "Shouldn't Paint So Fast"

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 2,505 posts
Posted by caldreamer on Friday, September 30, 2022 7:46 AM

Kato did a number of SPSF locomotives in N scale.  The two that quickly come to mind were SD45's and U30C's some of which were actually painted in SPSF colors.

 

  • Member since
    May 2019
  • 239 posts
Posted by TheFlyingScotsman on Friday, September 30, 2022 8:17 AM

I know this isn't really what we're on about here but I recently got a sort of fantasy paint scheme that I didn't want - an Athearn MRL SD70ace that is definately a shade of purple not blue no matter what light I look at it in.

Anyways the real subject matter as Mr Pullman says as long as it is stated as such then why not? My thing? Not really but that everything John Deere caper has been going forever and makes money which isn't offensive to me.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,892 posts
Posted by wjstix on Friday, September 30, 2022 8:58 AM

drgwcs

Not sure if this counts but my first train that I got when I was five was a Marx set with a Penn Central steam loco.....

 
Some of the older modellers might remember back in the 1970s when Walthers was still a major decal manufacturer, they published something (I have a reprint in one of my 1980's Walthers decal catalogues) about how they had decided to bow to requests from modellers and issue a Penn Central steam engine decal set, even though it was not prototypical.
 
 
 
 
I guess I don't mind "fantasy" equipment,  if it's clearly labelled as such, so an unsuspecting newer modeller doesn't buy it thinking it's prototypically correct. I guess the fantasy ones may be more something for collectors than modellers. I'm more OK with a sort of "close enough" foobie model when a completely accurate model isn't out there.
 
For example, the current MR has a question from someone wanting to model a Soo Line Mikado. Outside of brass I don't know that any Soo Line engines are available, but the Soo had a number of Mikado, Pacific, and Mountain engines that were very close to USRA engines in design. If someone making HO USRA engines wanted to offer one in Soo lettering, I might buy it.
 
But I don't think I'd buy say a Pennsylvania GG-1 decorated for Great Northern.
 
Stix
  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: NW Pa Snow-belt.
  • 2,216 posts
Posted by ricktrains4824 on Friday, September 30, 2022 8:38 PM

For me, it depends on the scheme.

If I can plausably explain it, and like it, I would be inclined towards it.

Like the Erie Lackawanna painted ES44AC I have. NS could have done a EL heritage unit, in addition to the Erie and DL&W units they did paint. So it is a plausable scheme.

(Although mine is explained differently - my fictional line hosts NS run through's, and as a concession, NS allowed my railroad to tack a one-off locomotive on their GE order, and since they chose to not do a EL heritage unit, my railroad received the green light to do one.)

The Athearn AC4400CW NS Heritage units can be exlpained as "close enough" in my opinion to qualify, as could the Intermountain CNW ES44 #1995, UP simply did what NS did, and split their heritage painted units between EMD and GE units. So although these are all "fantasy painted" units, they are very plausible. (Yes, as model railroaders, we know that a AC4400 is not the same as a ES44AC, just like a GE is not an EMD SD70ACe. But I won't tell if you don't.)

The above Athearn and Intermountain units are very much like the AC4400 I am custom doing as a stand in for a WNY&P AC6000 unit. It's close enough that, unless you know locomotives well, and know that WNY&P 6003 is a rebuilt AC6000 unit, people won't notice the difference between them. (And it looks so close to the part, while in use it might even fool those who do know the difference between the 4400 & 6000 models if they are not paying close attention to it.) Those who know are expecting it to be a wide cab GE AC6000, and they see a wide cab GE AC locomotive, so they could assume it's a AC6000, even though it is not, and not even give it any other thought.

(Although now I ruined it by blabbing it here for all to read.... Just pretend you didn't see that part. Blindfold)

I have also done a couple of "what if" freight cars, that, while not 100% correct, the railroad could have done them that way. (Right type, right color, but different logo or lettering, or right type, right lettering, but wrong color or size.)

So while the vast majority of my roster is correct, a few are fudged just a bit.

But hey, it's MY railroad, if I want to run it that way, I can! Big Smile

Ricky W.

HO scale Proto-freelancer.

My Railroad rules:

1: It's my railroad, my rules.

2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.

3: Any objections, consult above rules.

  • Member since
    September 2022
  • From: Idaho
  • 35 posts
Posted by OERRFailRanner on Tuesday, October 4, 2022 10:42 AM

One thing I would like to metion, a fantasy loco i found on ebay one time was a dash - 10... it was a AC6000CW with a  8-40W cab and nose

  • Member since
    September 2022
  • From: Idaho
  • 35 posts
Posted by OERRFailRanner on Tuesday, October 4, 2022 10:45 AM

crossthedog

 

 
OERRFailRanner
I feel the need to have a manufacturer make a SPSF paint scheme line

 

Your wish is my command, FailRanner.

 

 

Yes! This! This locomotive reminds me of the time me and one of my buddies tried to make a layout plan with the theme SPSF in western oregon. Too bad he had stuff happen and asn't able to make it happen. Crying

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
  • 21,483 posts
Posted by MisterBeasley on Tuesday, October 4, 2022 6:02 PM

I do have a factory made Toys R Us boxcar and a Vlassic Pickle box car. I actually put Kadees on them but never run them.

How about the beer reefers made from old Athearn BB reefer kits?  I think these are Greenberg paintjobs.  I have a few, just because they're ice bunker reefers.  I don't recognize any of beer names.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

  • Member since
    September 2008
  • 216 posts
Posted by NILE on Tuesday, October 4, 2022 8:29 PM

Fantasy schemes are awesome!  I enjoy seeing different ideas and engines painted in unquie paint.  Today with all the heritage schemes and short lines having SD-60s and SD-70MACs almost anything is possible.  I model a lot of GTW, and my collection includes: SD70I, SD45B, SD60F, GP40X, GP60B all in GT blue and orange and an SD35P in passenger black and orange.  
GTW never had any of those engines.  

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: North Dakota
  • 9,592 posts
Posted by BroadwayLion on Wednesday, October 5, 2022 6:05 AM

I thought that some of these mergers were made too quickly. I would like to have seen a Penn-Northern or a Burlington-Central, or maybe a Santa Fe-Southern.

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,892 posts
Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, October 5, 2022 9:11 AM

MisterBeasley
How about the beer reefers made from old Athearn BB reefer kits? I think these are Greenberg paintjobs. I have a few, just because they're ice bunker reefers. I don't recognize any of beer names.

For some reason, collecting beer reefers was kind of a big deal back in the 1980s/1990s, even amongst modellers who normally weren't 'collectors'. A couple of model companies made a variety of cars, some based on real reefers but many fantasy schemes for companies that really existed but never shipped beer by rail. The fad seems to have died down in recent years.

Although there are big national beer companies / brands (Budweiser, Miller, etc.) there are many local or regional beer companies that are well known only certain areas, like Schells Brewery in New Ulm, MN or Leinenkugel in Chippewa Falls, WI (although the latter might be a little bit known nationally due to the cast of the old Mystery Science Theater 3000 referencing "Leinies" a few times on the show). It could be the names you don't recognize are some of those.

 

Stix
  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, October 5, 2022 10:12 AM

gmpullman

I don't think I'm in the market for such a thing but apparently there IS a market for such items. I suppose you could include some of the Holiday "special edition" paint jobs, then go into (you name it) NFL, state capitals, NASCAR, ad-nauseum.

I'm OK with such things as long as the manufacturer specifies that it is not an accurate representation of a real prototype. If they can make some money off it and offset the cost of bringing new models to market, so be it.

Count me out as well. I don't have any problem with freelancing versus prototype modeling, but fantasy paint schemes bring out toy-like issues as opposed to true model railroading in my opinion. I don't like it at all.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 685 posts
Posted by Howard Zane on Wednesday, October 5, 2022 10:50 AM

To me the hobby is all about unlimited imagination, but I would never say folks who copy or model prototypes are strange.....just see the hobby differently than I do. Since Covid hit I have begun my "What could have been" series of rolling stock and structures. Actually I have been building and selling structures of imagination buildings since the 80's, but recently added rolling stock....www.zanestructures.com. Since 2019 I have built over 400 cars and sold about 1/4 of them to date. I'm greatly influnced by John Allen and his quote..."No matter how strange or different a model my be, somewhere a prototype possibly existed".....and I love building these...all from basswood. Enjoy the hobby in anyway which suits you. My layout is completely about this and the only thing that is correct are the locos.  

 

 

Howard Zane
  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,907 posts
Posted by maxman on Wednesday, October 5, 2022 11:51 AM

richhotrain
I don't have any problem with freelancing versus prototype modeling, but fantasy paint schemes

If someone freelances but doesn't follow a prototype, say Utah Belt or V&O, doesn't the resulting paint scheme become a fantay scheme?

Just asking out of curiosity.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, October 5, 2022 1:40 PM

maxman
 
richhotrain
I don't have any problem with freelancing versus prototype modeling, but fantasy paint schemes 

If someone freelances but doesn't follow a prototype, say Utah Belt or V&O, doesn't the resulting paint scheme become a fantay scheme?

Just asking out of curiosity. 

I will take a shot at replying to the question.

I may or may not be using the term "freelance" correctly, but in my mind it is a reference to using actual locomotive and rolling stock road names, for example Santa Fe and Western Maryland, on the same layout and, perhaps, on the same track even if the two railroads never appeared together.

Taking it a step further, freelancing in my mind is mixing locomotives and rolling stock from different eras even though some of the locomotives and rolling stock have build dates that were later than the era being modeled.

Another example of freelancing in my mind would being running steam locomotives, mostly retired by 1960, alongside diesels first manufactured in the 1960s or later.

Fantasy paint schemes would be taking artistic license with road names that never exisited or paint schemes that never existed.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    November 2002
  • From: Colorado
  • 4,075 posts
Posted by fwright on Wednesday, October 5, 2022 3:19 PM

richhotrain
I may or may not be using the term "freelance" correctly, but in my mind it is a reference to using actual locomotive and rolling stock road names, for example Santa Fe and Western Maryland, on the same layout and, perhaps, on the same track even if the two railroads never appeared together.

You and I view freelancing very differently.  I consider myself a freelancer, who is modeling a railroad that never existed in real life.  This used to be quite common in model railroading when common locomotives and rolling stock were generic models.  Some freelancers go to more effort than others to be realistic.  Until I get around to repainting/relettering, my rolling stock will have road names that don't match the imaginary railroads I model.  Or the real railroads my imaginary ones interchange with.  I even have some locomotives that are brass or zinc colored.

To me, a fantasy paint scheme is very similar to what used to be called "foobies" - models painted for real railroads that never owned anything resembling the model.  The fantasy paint scheme is a what-might-have-been had history taken a different turn.

Fred W

....modeling foggy coastal Oregon in HO and HOn3, where it's always 1900....

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • 7,486 posts
Posted by ndbprr on Thursday, October 6, 2022 7:08 AM

I think the original poster was looking for what curent paint schemes would look like for fallen flag railroads.  In my case that would be what a modern PRR would look like. I have two E60cp engines one in five stripe and one in single stripe.  I also have two E60 cf engines with just keystones. All are in dark green.  I also have an AEM7 that is silver with a maroon band with PENNSYLVANIA on the band and metroliners in the shortlived PRR scheme with a thin red stripes around the windows and joined at the cab end.  Prototype pictures of that are very hard to come by

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!