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For Canadians Receiving Goods Via UPS

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For Canadians Receiving Goods Via UPS
Posted by selector on Tuesday, September 27, 2022 1:39 PM

The following is self-explanatory, and this was for a USD$764.99 Blue Goose Hudson, plus Factory Direct's shipping costs to me. You might find this offensive.  I do:

 

NOTE: the total value used for calculation of all Duty-based fees is 0.00.

Freight Charges:
0.00
HST or GST + PST:
51.24
Brokerage Fee:
107.35
Government Charges:
122.98
Duty:
0.00
Excise:
0.00
UPS Customs Brokerage Charges:
112.72
Brokerage GST/HST:
5.37
Brokerage QST:
0.00
Permit:
0.00
Other Government Charges:
71.74
  • Member since
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Posted by BATMAN on Tuesday, September 27, 2022 1:47 PM

Crandell, my wife does a tremendous amount of shipping all over the world in both directions. She tells people as firmly as she can that if they ship her anything UPS we will not accept it.

We have had fees of over $100.00 on a $30.00 item. All those brokerage fees are a scam. I worked in logistics for 36 years and we never went anywhere near UPS.

Canada Post is your best bet every time.

Brent

It's not the age honey, it's the mileage.

https://www.youtube.com/user/BATTRAIN1/videos 

You can never ever out-train poor nutrition.

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Posted by Pruitt on Tuesday, September 27, 2022 3:00 PM

OUCH!

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Posted by BATMAN on Tuesday, September 27, 2022 3:11 PM

I think the only legit charge on there is the GST/PST.

What are Government charges, and other Government charges? Showed this to the wife who is the expert in such things and she has never seen that on anything she has brought in. 

I would pin them down on those. 

Brent

It's not the age honey, it's the mileage.

https://www.youtube.com/user/BATTRAIN1/videos 

You can never ever out-train poor nutrition.

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Posted by selector on Tuesday, September 27, 2022 6:04 PM

I am sure I selected USPS as the shipping option, maybe I made a mistake.  I'll never again deal with a company that only ships with couriers.  I thought I had learned my lesson 12 years ago, and have managed to avoid them until now.  This is a costly reminder of why I made my personal vow all those years ago.  I guess lessons wane over time. Grumpy

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Posted by NVSRR on Tuesday, September 27, 2022 6:57 PM

could. alot of those be the tarrifs impossed a few years ago?

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, September 27, 2022 7:24 PM

I have been ripped off by UPS too. The last major purchase that I made from the US was shipped via UPS, and they managed to lose it. However, they would not refund the brokerage fee that they had charged me.

I asked the supplier to ship the replacement unit via USPS and it arrived just fine in a few days with no additional fees. The supplier stated on their website that they only shipped via UPS but they had no problem with using the Post Office. In fact they were happy to do it, and they sent a note to UPS asking them to refund the brokerage fee, alas to no avail.

I avoid all of the hastles of ordering things from south of the border by ordering most items from Cedar Creek Hobbies in Canada. If Walthers has it they can get it, and for far less than the usual shipping fees from the US. Sometimes I have to wait for a bit while they accumulate a large enough bulk order, but that has never been a problem. They will also monitor back ordered items so as soon as they become available they add the item to their next order. They also buy direct from other suppliers like Digitrax.

Cheers!!

Dave

 

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by betamax on Tuesday, September 27, 2022 7:48 PM

Look for Self Account on the CBSA website. You can do the paper work yourself in many cases, and just pay any taxes owing.

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Posted by maxman on Tuesday, September 27, 2022 8:01 PM

selector
0.00 UPS Customs Brokerage Charges: 112.72 Brokerage GST/HST: 5.37 Brokerage QST:

I thinkith thee clicketh the incorrect box. :(

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Posted by BATMAN on Tuesday, September 27, 2022 8:28 PM

hon30critter
If Walthers has it they can get it, and for far less than the usual shipping fees from the US. Sometimes I have to wait for a bit while they accumulate a large enough bulk order, but that has never been a problem.

I have PWRS close enough and their order goes in on Friday to Walthers, so if I get an order in Friday I can pick it up Wednesday. I don't pay shipping so I have to factor that into the price.

Brent

It's not the age honey, it's the mileage.

https://www.youtube.com/user/BATTRAIN1/videos 

You can never ever out-train poor nutrition.

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Posted by selector on Thursday, September 29, 2022 2:29 PM

betamax

Look for Self Account on the CBSA website. You can do the paper work yourself in many cases, and just pay any taxes owing.

 

Thanks, but CBSA won't refund UPS' 'brokerage' fees, or that 'government fee'.  It's just an egregious money grab, and I am not pleased.  I will have to look at my Factory Direct Hobbies account to see what I selected, but I'm sure I was careful about doing so.  Who knows....

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Posted by BATMAN on Thursday, September 29, 2022 2:45 PM

Crandell, I have been buying stuff from here. He is in Maple Ridge and gives good discounts and brings in whatever I want. I have ordered my Rapido D-10s from him.

https://www.britanniamodels.com/ 

It never hurts to Email them and ask, how much? It is the bottom line that counts. 

Not paying shipping or any other fees can make a local purchase a bargain sometimes. Postage from Maple Ridge to Comox can't be that much.

Brent

It's not the age honey, it's the mileage.

https://www.youtube.com/user/BATTRAIN1/videos 

You can never ever out-train poor nutrition.

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Posted by betamax on Thursday, September 29, 2022 4:02 PM

selector

 

 
betamax

Look for Self Account on the CBSA website. You can do the paper work yourself in many cases, and just pay any taxes owing.

 

 

 

Thanks, but CBSA won't refund UPS' 'brokerage' fees, or that 'government fee'.  It's just an egregious money grab, and I am not pleased.  I will have to look at my Factory Direct Hobbies account to see what I selected, but I'm sure I was careful about doing so.  Who knows....

 

 

AS the CBSA site explains, you can do the paperwork yourself and not pay the extortionate fees UPS demands. But why would CBSA rebate you on fees the they never assessed?

Write your MP and complain. The current regulations allow UPS to charge whatever they want. How does Canada Post manage on the small fee they charge, while Purolator (owned 100% by the post office) can't?

(Remember: Canada Post is a Crown Corporation, so it can't lose money.)

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Posted by selector on Friday, September 30, 2022 1:35 AM

"But why would CBSA rebate you on fees the they never assessed?"

I never thought they should, or to ask them. The text I quoted in the original post is what UPS sent to me before they'd deliver it. This is not information from Factory Direct.

 My point all along has been that UPS (not CBSA) charges at least double what they have to pay for 'brokerage' at the border, but the list I posted also shows a 'government fee' of approximately the same tonnage.  Why should I have to pay that when Factory Direct already ponied up $50 to have UPS carry the parcel to me, across border or not?  

Suddenly all my text is grey-highlighted.  I don't see a way to activate that feature or to get rid of it. Angry

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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, September 30, 2022 1:41 AM

selector
I don't see a way to activate that feature or to get rid of it. 

No guarantee, but you could try to highlight all the text again, then click the "Format" drop down menu and at the bottom is "clear formatting". Then click the "Update Reply"  button.

Good Luck, Ed

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Posted by snjroy on Friday, September 30, 2022 10:24 AM

They seem to overcharge on "government fees", based on what I have read on the CBSA Website (they have a calculator online).

I'm not a lawyer, but this is my guess: Since you must pay UPS, that makes you a client. So if you are being overcharged, you could sue UPS. But who wants to sue a major company for a few hundred dollars? Nobody, which is why they are getting away with it.

Complaining to CBSA is a good idea, but they are not responsible. I would let the seller know though (Factory Direct Hobbies). This is bad for their business.

Like others, I avoid UPS like the plague. I can't imagine them surviving in the long-term with such bad business practices.

Simon

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Posted by betamax on Friday, September 30, 2022 11:14 AM

"Government Fees" sounds like a misleading term, just like the "CRTC Fee" the cell phone companies padded the bill with. The CRTC does not regulate cell phones...

At the most the invoice should show their brokerage fee, any duties assessed and owed (which would be zero for model trains...) plus the amount of HST or PST and GST owing.

UPS et al is treating you as a commercial entity importing tens of thousands of dollars every month, when you are a private individual importing items for personal use. If you were a large importer, you would hire your own broker or do it in house... 

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Friday, September 30, 2022 2:31 PM

If they wanted this mujch money frfo me I eould reusr the shipment.

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by selector on Friday, September 30, 2022 7:20 PM

Thanks, Ed.  It worked. Thumbs Up

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Posted by rrebell on Sunday, October 2, 2022 9:20 AM

I'm sure they must have small claims courts in Canada, thats the bway you sue them. We have a school system near us who thought they could get away with things, many parents sued them in small claims court, many won small amounts but after the 5th case the school ststem gave up because they had to show up to each case and 30 more were in the que.

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Posted by selector on Sunday, October 2, 2022 10:23 AM

Factory Direct Hobbies responded and said they'd pin my account with USPS as the default, but I have to be doubly sure it is selected each and every time I order from them.  Not sure what I'm to make of that 'arrangement', but, I guess that's something.  I have ceased dealing with trainworld for this very reason.  So far, I have had excellent service from both Walthers direct and from M.B. Klein's.  Also, of course, Tony's Train Exchange, Litchfield Station, and common others.

I sincerely appreciate the feedback and commiseration from all who have offered their considered replies.  Thank-you.

-Crandell

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Posted by BATMAN on Sunday, October 2, 2022 11:48 AM

rrebell
I'm sure they must have small claims courts in Canada

How much is your time worth, this would be a never-ending battle with a huge company like UPS. Going through a regulator would be the starting point and a whole lot of education on the matter at hand would be required so the judge in the small claims court would not throw you out and tell you to come back better prepared.

I have gone to court a few times and the time spent was not worth the time required to pursue the matter from a dollar standpoint. The only reason I did it was to put the brakes on repeat offenders by having lots of red flags attached to their names when they lose the case.

Sometimes you just lick your wounds, take it as a lesson and move on. Caveat Emptor.

Crandell, I am curious as to what you save by ordering things through a U.S. retailer. I have ordered things from the U.S. a handful of times and generally found it was not worth it for the slight if any saving after the smoke has cleared. 

PWRS, Central Hobbies, and Britannia Hobbies have all brought things in for me that they did not stock. Right away I am not paying shipping. There is a small hobby shop and an R/C shop I go to for things as well that have ordered in things for me that they would not normally stock and they have given me a discount to boot.

Brent

It's not the age honey, it's the mileage.

https://www.youtube.com/user/BATTRAIN1/videos 

You can never ever out-train poor nutrition.

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
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Posted by selector on Monday, October 3, 2022 12:04 AM

Maybe because of my heavy acquisition and use of American varieties of steam locomotives, I have never gone to any of those places, Brent.  It might be worth a look, or would have been, but like you, I am nearing the acme of my hobby and will have to begin to cull at some point.  I am hoping for Rapido to make the CPR H1-b, but I am firmly resolved that even if it is declined for production, I now have my last locomotive.  I don't need any more cars.

Come to think of it, I did wander into Central Hobbies on E12th back in 2008 or so, but I found the place to be old 'n cold, poorly lit, and the prices of items on the shelves were not very appealing.  I have done a lot better at train shows in recent years.

(Edited to correct name of person to whom I replied.  Sorry, Brent. Dunce)

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Posted by CNCharlie on Monday, October 3, 2022 8:22 AM

I have been lucky in that I send my orders from US suppliers to my friend just south of me in Minnesota and pick them up when I visit to save the hasstle and expense of shipping to Manitoba. 

I agree that UPS is a disreputable firm and even within the US is slower and more expensive than USPS in my experience.

I did have a brass loco sent direct to me from Florida in 2020 and with USPS there weren't any brokerage fees. I paid the GST on line and the loco was delivered to my door.

I agree with Brent about Central Hobbies and have purchased from them before. I just phoned. Great service. When PK2 was sold by Lifelike they had some great deals. Paid $114 for a CN 0-8-0.

CN Charlie

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Posted by CNCharlie on Monday, October 3, 2022 9:13 AM

I have been lucky in that I send my orders from US suppliers to my friend just south of me in Minnesota and pick them up when I visit to save the hasstle and expense of shipping to Manitoba. 

I agree that UPS is a disreputable firm and even within the US is slower and more expensive than USPS in my experience.

I did have a brass loco sent direct to me from Florida in 2020 and with USPS there weren't any brokerage fees. I paid the GST on line and the loco was delivered to my door.

I agree with Brent about Central Hobbies and have purchased from them before. I just phoned. Great service. When PK2 was sold by Lifelike they had some great deals. Paid $114 for a CN 0-8-0.

CN Charlie

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Posted by snjroy on Monday, October 3, 2022 10:20 AM

As a Canadian, the early 2000s was a true Golden Age when it came to online purchasing of model railroading stuff. The Canadian dollar was strong, postage costs were reasonable, and there were more private vendors on Ebay than now. Today, I find myself buying more things at our LHS and from other Canadian vendors, either through their Website or through Ebay. Postage costs from the US has gone through the roof... And UPS charges even more!

Simon

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Posted by selector on Monday, October 3, 2022 7:40 PM

Brent, I corrected my post above with the mis-attribution.  Sorry 'bout dat. Confused

Well, here is the item.  Safely delivered, front skyline vent corrected for colour (BLI ships these locomotives with the vents painted the same colour as the boiler and skyline, but photos clearly show something more like what I produced).

It runs well, and is truly impressive in terms of build and quality.  I'd rank it right up there with my Sunset Selkirk 2-10-4, believe it or not.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, October 3, 2022 8:06 PM

While I don't have a big roster of them, I have always been a fan of streamlined steam power.

The Blue Goose is one of the best examples in my opinion.

The B&O had long abandoned any streamlined steam in th era I model, The C&O still had a few of their L-1's in service, and I would like to get one at some point.

There are plans for a kit bash or two for the ATLANTIC CENTRAL, but they are not complete at this time.

Glad the Blue Goose is a nice model, sorry about the unreasonable cost of getting it across the boarder.

In my opinion, it is an embarrassment to both countries that this kind of commerce is treated this way.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by rrebell on Tuesday, October 4, 2022 7:51 AM

BATMAN

 

 
rrebell
I'm sure they must have small claims courts in Canada

 

How much is your time worth, this would be a never-ending battle with a huge company like UPS. Going through a regulator would be the starting point and a whole lot of education on the matter at hand would be required so the judge in the small claims court would not throw you out and tell you to come back better prepared.

I have gone to court a few times and the time spent was not worth the time required to pursue the matter from a dollar standpoint. The only reason I did it was to put the brakes on repeat offenders by having lots of red flags attached to their names when they lose the case.

Sometimes you just lick your wounds, take it as a lesson and move on. Caveat Emptor.

Crandell, I am curious as to what you save by ordering things through a U.S. retailer. I have ordered things from the U.S. a handful of times and generally found it was not worth it for the slight if any saving after the smoke has cleared. 

PWRS, Central Hobbies, and Britannia Hobbies have all brought things in for me that they did not stock. Right away I am not paying shipping. There is a small hobby shop and an R/C shop I go to for things as well that have ordered in things for me that they would not normally stock and they have given me a discount to boot.

 

Wow, didn't relize small claims was different up north. Here you pay a fee and can sue for it back as part of your claim. You better have your ducks in a row for court but ussually the judge dose not delay their judgement unless something goes realy south.

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Posted by snjroy on Tuesday, October 4, 2022 8:57 AM

rrebell

 

 
BATMAN

 

 
rrebell
I'm sure they must have small claims courts in Canada

 

How much is your time worth, this would be a never-ending battle with a huge company like UPS. Going through a regulator would be the starting point and a whole lot of education on the matter at hand would be required so the judge in the small claims court would not throw you out and tell you to come back better prepared.

I have gone to court a few times and the time spent was not worth the time required to pursue the matter from a dollar standpoint. The only reason I did it was to put the brakes on repeat offenders by having lots of red flags attached to their names when they lose the case.

Sometimes you just lick your wounds, take it as a lesson and move on. Caveat Emptor.

Crandell, I am curious as to what you save by ordering things through a U.S. retailer. I have ordered things from the U.S. a handful of times and generally found it was not worth it for the slight if any saving after the smoke has cleared. 

PWRS, Central Hobbies, and Britannia Hobbies have all brought things in for me that they did not stock. Right away I am not paying shipping. There is a small hobby shop and an R/C shop I go to for things as well that have ordered in things for me that they would not normally stock and they have given me a discount to boot.

 

 

 

Wow, didn't relize small claims was different up north. Here you pay a fee and can sue for it back as part of your claim. You better have your ducks in a row for court but ussually the judge dose not delay their judgement unless something goes realy south.

 

 

It depends on the province, but here in Eastern Canada, the waiting time to access the small claims court is horrendous. And even if you win, unless the other party collaborates, you might have to hire a pro to actually get the money.

Simon

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