I was at a train show today and saw an unpainted brass steam loco for a super reasonable price. However it was very tarnished so I passed on it. I did some searching and I see they can be cleaned up but most of the articles I read used sonic cleaners other such mechanisms which I don't have or will ever have. Is it possible to hand clean them back to some semblance of shiny brass and what would be used? My wife says she has brass cleaner some where.
Bruce
You say "very tarnished". I have used a white vinegar and salt mixture. Vinegar being a mild acid.
Lets see what others use on a low budget.
I use a hobby sandblaster, using baking soda as a medium. I've also used a soft metal wheel brush with a dremel for lighter cases.
Simon
Bruce.
Do you know if it has a clear laquer coating? If it's coated then it will need to be stripped first before an acid bath. Soda blasting would leave a dull finish ready to accept paint. If painting it is in the future then leaving it alone would be ok.
Pete.
Pete
I have no idea if there is a coating on that loco. When I opened the box to look it looked tarnished and not shiny and in collector condition. I have no experience with brass and was just wondering if something like that could be brought back without sonic cleaners etc and done by hand. I didn't realize there might be a coating on it that would affect what would be done to it. Im learining something new with this post.
Brass locomotives are rarely shiny. Just take a look at brass trains.com and you will see that they are usually dull brass and have some discoloration from soldering and working the brass. After they are assembled and before the chassis is put in a thin coat of clear is sprayed on. My Westside K5s pacific had runs and dust in the clear and it too was tarnished badly. The tender was almost black with tarnish. Probably why it was sold so cheap. A soaking in laquer thinner and a brushing took care of the coating. A good washing in hot soapy water and an air dry for awhile before painting. Tarnish has no real effect on the paint. That locomotive received a super detailing to represent a couple of 1937 photos.
If you're buying it to run, keep in mind that old brass usually are equipped with open frame motors and very loud gear trains. But all these are easily rectified.
Some brass locomotives have parts that are 'painted' brass (although I think your highly tarnished one would not be so painted). This suggests that you might use an etching primer followed by one of the 'specular finish' metallic paints to get a more 'permanent' shiny finish if you want that.
I'd try to strip any previous finish or paint, even though doing so may reveal solder joints and stains, and will likely depreciate the 'collector' value of the model ...
I haven't decided yet if I am going for this loco. like I said I looked but passed on it although I did get the sellers contact info in case I change my mind. I did get a painted brass loco a couple of months ago that gave me a lot of aggrevation to get it running and not sure I want to go thru that again. I understand brass can be erratic runners
I blasted this caboose with glass beads to get it ready for paint.
-Photograph by Kevin Parson
The finish is just fine for painting, but not for display. With the paint and clear-coat gone, it would probably tarnish quickly. Also, the final surface finish it not really even.
If you really want to display it, I would paint it brass.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
NYVTRR I haven't decided yet if I am going for this loco. like I said I looked but passed on it although I did get the sellers contact info in case I change my mind. I did get a painted brass loco a couple of months ago that gave me a lot of aggrevation to get it running and not sure I want to go thru that again. I understand brass can be erratic runners Bruce
As for the cost, I can tell you that the hobby sandblaster that I bought (badger) is just a fraction of what I have put in my brass engines. Remotoring, changing tender wheels and adding DCC is not cheap, in both plastic and brass. But the rewards are there, if you can afford the cost. Brass and old MDC steam engines get most of the running time on my layout.
snjroyNot all brass are erratic runners. Some of my finest running locos are brass.
All of my Sunset brass USRA locomotives run beautifully.
I have a United/PFM 2-6-2 that runs amazingly well, and has an open-frame motor.
I do not have brass from a variety of importers, so my sample size is small, but nearly all the steamers run very well and quietly.
My first brass locomotive, a Tenshodo 0-8-0 has run reliably for me for more than twenty years. However, it is very noisy.
In my experience I find it hit or miss on how they run out of the box. I have 4 Sunset steamers and three ran great out of the box. The one I ended up completely rebuilding and had to re quarter the drivers. I have several other brands with open frame motors that have been super tuned. They all have DCC and sound. All have LED headlight and extra weight. My Westside K5s pacific with super tuned open frame motor and extra weight can pull 13 HW cars with ease.
If you like to tinker, than running brass can be rewarding. It can also be less expensive than the plastic RTR version. I scored a factory painted H8s 2-8-0 for $200, TCS WOW with keep alive and speaker for $90. The plastic version is $400.
Good information. Please pardon my ignorance, like I said above brass is all new to me. What I am gathering is they are good runners generally but you have to be willing to tinker when needed. Also in many cases the "unpainted" shiny brass can be brass painted with clear coat to give it the collectable display look?
No ignorance. Just new and learning. Education is key.
Buying brass is something else than just collecting things. I know people who buy just to collect and some give me snide remarks or comments. The most frequent is " There goes it's value." And my favorite. " That engine is ruined now." After I put a decoder and sound in it. I just grin and ask How many locomotives of yours is in the Smithsonian? I buy to use. Not collect. I have a hobby not a museum.
That is the beauty of the hobby. No rules and you can do whatever you like.
Good luck and stay well.
NYVTRR Good information. Please pardon my ignorance, like I said above brass is all new to me. What I am gathering is they are good runners generally but you have to be willing to tinker when needed. Also in many cases the "unpainted" shiny brass can be brass painted with clear coat to give it the collectable display look?
If the price is right, buy one, be willing to tinker and learn.
wrench567And my favorite. "That engine is ruined now."
I ruined my Tenshodo 0-8-0 over two decades ago. Since then, it has given me countless hours of enjoyment.
I am glad it was ruined. That turned out well.
One has to remember that when the bulk of the old brass was imported, model railroading was very different as a hobby. The modeler was Expected to do the fine tuning to make the model operate to his/her satisfaction. Brass was just the best medium at that time, with the alternative being diecast metal like a Bowser or Mantua engine that could be detailed to look as good as brass with lots of work. Brass really was the first "RTR" model so to speak, but you still had to properly lubricate them, tune them and of coarse for many years also paint them. PFM models in particular are known for their darker "patinia" and that is desirable by many collectors. Many brass models, were painted a brass color as you will have solder and other discoloration on older models. The shiny brass is many times a paint job in itself on older models. Wasnt really till the Overland/Ajin era of models that we saw more shiny models, especailly the diesels and freight cars. Most all brass importers had duds that ran bad, had bad soldering and so forth. This was especailly prevelant in the transition years from Japanese builders to South Korean builders. The Hallmark/Dong Jin built ICRR 2-8-0 is one such abomination as the drivers nearly are always swollen from zinc pest and it had a Tyco style motor. Rebuilding one is a major undertaking. When someone I know wants to get a start with brass models, I always recommend anything from PFM in regards to steam, and later run(tower drive) Overland diesels or Samhongas built diesels from Oriental Limited and Challenger. Newer stuff from Division point is also great if you have the wallet for it. Akane, Tenshodo, GEM, AHM are also some good solid older models, mostly only needed a can motor to bring them into the 21st century. Not because they ran bad with the open frame, but many times the open frames Alinco magnet is weak, causing high amp draw and a flaming hot motor after a few minutes of running. Its either a can motor or a new magnet. Do not buy brass as a investment, buy it because you enjoy it. Much better ways to invest money than gambling on brass models. I have run, tuned/repowered and enjoyed brass models since I was 15 and I am 49 now. Mike
Both of these models are from Overland, the NKP Berkshire was imported in 1982 and was build by JP Models in Korea, the NKP OSB boxcar is from Ajin and is much newer, it is also very shiny where as the berk is not.
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
NYVTRRI did some searching and I see they can be cleaned up but most of the articles I read used sonic cleaners other such mechanisms which I don't have or will ever have.
FWIW, ultrasonic cleaners aren't like some 'break the bank' item. I think I bought mine (some years back admittedly) for like $35. As with anything, there are some that are very expensive, but a quick internet search turned up quite a few in the $50-90 range.
The gallon paint can of carb cleaner/parts cleaner sold at places like Advance Auto, also works well to remove the clear coat and it will put a nice shine on most brass. Also works great to clean the lawn mowers gummed up carb. I usually do that soak, followed by a trip thru the dishwasher to remove all traces, then into the vinager bath to etch the brass and another dishwasher wash job prior to primer and paint. Each coat being baked in the oven at 170'F for an hour or so. This is why you cannot glue parts to brass engines, that makes it harder or impossible to bake the paint. I wish Harbor Freight would get in a "clone" resistance soldering rig for a really keen price. I really need to add one to my work station.
Oh, yes: if using a cleaner, DON'T use Brasso. One of its ingredients leaves a tenacious film on the 'finished' surface, nearly impossible to get off, probably to try slowing subsequent oxidation.
I'd try a bath of Tarn-X or similar after stripping; you can put the chemical in a sealable bag and 'isostatically' get the solution to the nooks and crannies by immersing that in a deep and long enough pan...
This seems like a lot of angst over little: If you want a brass locomotive at a manageable price, but it's tarnished, buy it, then take it apart, toss the parts into the sink with some dish soap and hot water, then rinse it well, and let it air dry.If your plans are for a brass display model, get some brass-coloured paint and an airbrush, put it back together and perhaps apply a clear coat over the brass paint. Put it on the shelf and you're done.Alternatively, if you want to use the loco on your layout (or a club layout) use the first part of the procedure outlined above, but buy some suitable paint in appropriate colours, along with the airbrush, and perhaps some decals or dry transfers for lettering.
You could still use it as a display locomotive, but also get some use from it too, whether on your own layout or at a club or at the homes of friends who are also interested in model railroading.
I don't think I've ever had a locomotive that I didn't paint (or re-paint) and maybe only a handful of rolling stock that was acceptable as ready-to-run.
Don't confuse tarnish with corrosion.
Wayne