hon30critterWhat does 'OOP' stand for?
Out Of Production
Cheers, Ed
In showing my layout to local friends who are not train enthusiasts, I've noted that they often have far more car knowledge than train knowledge. So, to impress what we used to call "the most casual observer," you can run a steam engine in your subway tunnels and no one will notice, but your automobiles should be prototypical.
I still have what I call "cereal box cars" from my teenage years, but they are not driving around in my towns. Instead, they're heavily distressed and rusted, and now populate the graveyards of the rusted automobiles.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
gmpullmanOut Of Production
Thanks Ed,
I knew it would be obvious!
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Hillyard speedybee For me, what's most jarring about a vehicle scene, is when Likewise, chrome wheelcovers. What i recall are the smaller chrome hubcaps, with exposed wheels painted (I think) to match the car body. I realize there are exceptions. But on every car, I do notice this. thoughts?
speedybee For me, what's most jarring about a vehicle scene, is when
Likewise, chrome wheelcovers. What i recall are the smaller chrome hubcaps, with exposed wheels painted (I think) to match the car body. I realize there are exceptions. But on every car, I do notice this.
thoughts?
If it's easy, I flip the tires and put the white walls inside. On some vehicles there is very little wheel well opening on the rear and it will be a struggle to get the tire off and back on again, if you run into this, then a ring of tire black paint works great.
For the chrome hub caps, some get painted body color with just the the center left chrome, aka "dog dish wheel cover or poverty caps''.
I do push and pull some vehicle forward and backwards on a piece of sandpaper on glass to dull and put a flat tread on the tires.
Holding the vehicle on an angle move it the ways of the red arrows with very light downward pressure. The wheels should rotate and the slight angle will create drag and scuff the treads and also remove any tire tread flash.
ATLANTIC CENTRALwhen you view a scene, or some part of a scene, from 3 actual feet away, you are 261 scale feet away.
This is a very good way to put. Also, cars are much smaller than locos and rolling stocks. A car in HO may have the size of a loco in N scale. I have some cars from Model Power and the details are pretty good. Also, overall, a car may have less details than a loco anyway...
Jerry
hon30critterFWIW, I would rather have open windows with no glazing rather than painted windows. That's just me.
I agree with you, Dave. Those with the painted windows are solid castings, with only the wheels to be added. I use them mostly in the background areas.
The Sylvan vehicles are pretty decent, and I also like the Jordan vehicles, although many of them are rather fragile. I altered some of the more recent ones I've built, both to make them a little sturdier, but also to allow them to sit on all four wheels.
Wayne
Regarding the vehicle glazing, even at 261' I am acutely aware of excessively thick or misaligned glass, posts or window frames that are too thick, and... the fact that in the great majority of actual photographs from that distance, how little you see of the 'interior' when the windows are up or the cabin is closed. The situation is not analogous to Mel's (and others') exquisitely-detailed interiors because those are lighted, and almost all the time, vehicles don't have dome lights on (let alone police-grade overheads comparable to railroad-car lighting), 'instrument lights' wouldn't show at distance, and as any photograph of the real thing from distance will show, in daylight it's difficult to see inside with all that ambient light.
I have read a couple of articles and posts in P:48 Modeler (keep in mind that a great many of the most 'realistic' scale automobiles are, albeit often at horrific cost, in 1:43 scale) that point out that most of what's visible from typical 'layout' viewing angle is the contour of the glass reflecting relatively dark from the ground and bluish from 'skylight'. It is relatively easy to achieve fully realistic frame detail and window-surface 'depth' in a solid surface, and then paint this trompe l'oeil style with a gradient from dark to sky-reflection (gray to blue)... I suspect there are refinements of the general technique in the wider MR community.
My complaint about vehicles is a different one: We expend all sorts of efforts getting the trains to run around, and then to run smoothly and prototypically as they run around. (FINALLY someone has programmed a real-world system that duplicates what diesel-locomotive controls "do" -- and I now see a clear path to what I've wanted to do with steam for 50 years or more, but that's another thread entirely...) But even when we have solenoids making the people move a bit, the vehicles just sit there. All of them... on road or not, whether there are trolleys going by them or not. A few layouts have vehicles that move... all at the same speed, and the same distance, obviously riding on magnets under the scenery. Even at 261' this isn't how traffic behaves, and we'll notice that. At grade crossings vehicles don't all lurch into motion immediately when the gates go up, and they don't all start at the same spacing and then maintain that spacing as they speed up. I'd like to see some discussion of how 'prototypical' vehicle motion to match what the trains are doing can, or should, or might, be achieved.
The OP's original concern was photography.
In this picture there are four vehicles with solid painted windows. The others have crystal clear windows that can be seen through.
Of course one of them with solid cast windows is the blue sedan front and center. I put that model in that position on purpose for emphasis.
Are the other three that obvious? I don't think so.
-Photograph by Kevin Parson
Two of the solid window models should be easy to spot if you know the manufacturers and what they offer. The last is a bit tricky because it had clear windows from the factory, but I ruined the windshield, so painted it solid.
The point is that photographs can be posed and lit to take emphasis off of the sub-par models in the scene.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Overmod My complaint about vehicles is a different one: We expend all sorts of efforts getting the trains to run around, and then to run smoothly and prototypically as they run around. (FINALLY someone has programmed a real-world system that duplicates what diesel-locomotive controls "do" -- and I now see a clear path to what I've wanted to do with steam for 50 years or more, but that's another thread entirely...) But even when we have solenoids making the people move a bit, the vehicles just sit there. All of them... on road or not, whether there are trolleys going by them or not. A few layouts have vehicles that move... all at the same speed, and the same distance, obviously riding on magnets under the scenery. Even at 261' this isn't how traffic behaves, and we'll notice that. At grade crossings vehicles don't all lurch into motion immediately when the gates go up, and they don't all start at the same spacing and then maintain that spacing as they speed up. I'd like to see some discussion of how 'prototypical' vehicle motion to match what the trains are doing can, or should, or might, be achieved.
I don't have that much time or money, so I will just let my imagination do some of this......
Sheldon
Overmod Regarding the vehicle glazing, even at 261' I am acutely aware of excessively thick or misaligned glass, posts or window frames that are too thick, and... the fact that in the great majority of actual photographs from that distance, how little you see of the 'interior' when the windows are up or the cabin is closed. The situation is not analogous to Mel's (and others') exquisitely-detailed interiors because those are lighted, and almost all the time, vehicles don't have dome lights on (let alone police-grade overheads comparable to railroad-car lighting), 'instrument lights' wouldn't show at distance, and as any photograph of the real thing from distance will show, in daylight it's difficult to see inside with all that ambient light. I have read a couple of articles and posts in P:48 Modeler (keep in mind that a great many of the most 'realistic' scale automobiles are, albeit often at horrific cost, in 1:43 scale) that point out that most of what's visible from typical 'layout' viewing angle is the contour of the glass reflecting relatively dark from the ground and bluish from 'skylight'. It is relatively easy to achieve fully realistic frame detail and window-surface 'depth' in a solid surface, and then paint this trompe l'oeil style with a gradient from dark to sky-reflection (gray to blue)... I suspect there are refinements of the general technique in the wider MR community. My complaint about vehicles is a different one: We expend all sorts of efforts getting the trains to run around, and then to run smoothly and prototypically as they run around. (FINALLY someone has programmed a real-world system that duplicates what diesel-locomotive controls "do" -- and I now see a clear path to what I've wanted to do with steam for 50 years or more, but that's another thread entirely...) But even when we have solenoids making the people move a bit, the vehicles just sit there. All of them... on road or not, whether there are trolleys going by them or not. A few layouts have vehicles that move... all at the same speed, and the same distance, obviously riding on magnets under the scenery. Even at 261' this isn't how traffic behaves, and we'll notice that. At grade crossings vehicles don't all lurch into motion immediately when the gates go up, and they don't all start at the same spacing and then maintain that spacing as they speed up. I'd like to see some discussion of how 'prototypical' vehicle motion to match what the trains are doing can, or should, or might, be achieved.
In regards to animating traffic in such a fashion the experts would be miniature wonderland. If you watch their videos on construction. They use a remarkable amount of computer control yet everything is running about the same speed due to inherent limitations of both the faller system and keeping everything in an orderly fashion. The crazy guy in the BMW does not translate well to HO scale.....nor does granny going at 24.5 mph. ( For that matter Tesla can not get it right in 12 inches to the foot scale either)The other issue is that the streets wind up all looking that they have been descended upon by a pack of street racers intent on burning rubber. Yet rubber tires are the only thing that really gives enough traction. Some things simply do not scale down well. While I consider the Faller system intriguing whatever system has another issue it requires a loop of streets. Wonderland has perhaps gotten around this a little in their airport scene with the planes I think all the smaller vehicles are still on at least a reverse loop. I do not have a street on my layout that would be suitable. Everything has to turn around. It is a really neat idea but far more difficult to put into practice and takes gobbs of money too. I would love to have wonderlands space and budget
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I don't have that much time or money, so I will just let my imagination do some of this...... Sheldon
I agree...we have train layouts, not slot cars. The majority of my vehicles were kit-built, most with wheels not designed to roll. If I wish to take photos of moving trains and moving vehicles, too, it's a simple process to take multiple still-photos of a "moving" train, accompanied by hand-moved vehicles...
...the idea being is that the train is moving and while it passes, traffic is backing up, too.
Here's another crossing where the train has just passed, allowing the driver to proceed...
Here's another bunch of impatient drivers...
...and once the train has passed, the vehicles will go on to their new location, propelled by the big hand from the sky.
The situation is much the same for our LPBs, glued or otherwise propped-up with a pin projecting from their feet. They're not going anywhere until we decide where we want them to be...
...after this train makes its stop, then departs, most of the "people" and vehicles will be gone...motion that can be represented in still-photos.
drgwcs I do not have a street on my layout that would be suitable. Everything has to turn around.
100% Agree.
To make this work you would need to design a roadway system, that is functional, into a functioning miniature railroad.
My roadways all tend to terminate at industries, backdrops, and aisleways. There is no way any of it could be animated, and I would never give that kind of real estate to non-railroad uses.
Since it is always 2:00 in the afternoon on my layout, I am OK with no animation. Like Sheldon, my imagination does the job.
I appreciate the variety of 1:87 vehicles available today and look forward to the release of Rapido's Chevy Caprice/Impalas. Wish Neo would re-run their 1:87 line of vehicles, especially the North American models.
Whether we like it or not, pusuit of realism and fidelity to scale most often=time, money and aquired skills.
The late Michael Paul Smith did some exquisite work with 1:43 die-cast and kit vehicles, so real almost brings a tear to my eye. Michael Paul Smith | Flickr He omitted figures in his shots, presumably due to the difficulty in posing them without adding some form of mannequin-ism. Have also noticed the limited use of figures by talented 'realist' modeler/photographers Pelle Soeborg and Lance Mindheim in their 1:87 work.
Even at the cost of realism, I feel that judiciously placed figures add life and interest to a layout.
Much can be done to increase the realism and character of a vehicle, like enhancing panel lines and adding details. I like replacing those grossly out of scale steering wheels, even if only rarely seen in close-up. Luke Towan has an excellent how-to vehicle detailing video on the web. Adding Realistic Details to Vehicles – Model Scenery - YouTube
When detailing a CMW Ford Pick-up I was fortunate to have a 60s photo of my late Pop's 48' to work from. Lot of fond memories connected to that ol' green truck.
Btw, Mel, 'you da' Man' with your over-the-top vehicle lighting and dazzling figures!
Happy modeling and have a good weekend. Regards, Peter
Thanks for the complements guys, I wish my vehicles looked even close to your vehicles Peter.I need a lot of better detail work pretty much on everything, specialty my figure painting Kevin. Still waiting on your help Kevin.One thing that really helps the vehicle realism is my Alps printer, it turns out very nice decals.Between the decals and micro bulbs the vehicles come out pretty good, even close up.Even night scenes.All incandescent lighting. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California Turned 84 last July, aging is definitely not for wimps.
Mel,
I mentioned this before. I think you need to have one car (or truck) on your layout with a "burned" out headlight. Or, maybe one with just the parking lights on. People still do that - even if this day & age...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
TomI do have one vehicle that has a headlight out, actually its interment. Probably a cold solder joint. It’s the VW bus stopped at the crossing. Been that way for years, on for awhile then off. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, CaliforniaGrowing old is a bummer, aging is definitely not for wimps.
HO-Velo When detailing a CMW Ford Pick-up I was fortunate to have a 60s photo of my late Pop's 48' to work from. Lot of fond memories connected to that ol' green truck. Btw, Mel, 'you da' Man' with your over-the-top vehicle lighting and dazzling figures! Happy modeling and have a good weekend. Regards, Peter
Love you are recreating your Pop's truck. Recreating these tributes to family is a great use of vehicles on the layout. I have a Sylvan Humpback Chevy to build that was my Dad's first car. I wish someone had made old REO trucks from the 30s. My grandfather ran a truck line. One load that my grandmother carried in that old REO would be a real conversation piece. My uncle had seen an advertisement for a trained bear cub. Well they let him order it and my grandma picked him up at the station in a crate. They drove him 30 miles to the farm griping and complaining. They kept stopping and checking if he was secure and not about to come down through the canvas roof....
RR_Mel TomI do have one vehicle that has a headlight out, actually its interment. Probably a cold solder joint. It’s the VW bus stopped at the crossing. Been that way for years, on for awhile then off. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, CaliforniaGrowing old is a bummer, aging is definitely not for wimps.
Pididdle
drgwcs tributes to family is a great use of vehicles on the layout.
drgwcs, Thanks for the nice comment and the charming story about REO and the bear. Good luck with Dad's humpback' Chevrolet build. Regards, Peter
wrench567If you model the 1970s and have a 55 Chevy in a driveway, I'm not going to judge.
What?!? There's a guy on my street that owns a rather nicely preserved '56 Chevy right now in 2022!!! Remember that a '55 Chevy could indeed exist on a layout set in 1970 but a '70 Chevelle would NOT be appropriate for a layout set in 1955. Now an '85 DeLorean MIGHT be appropriate on a 1955 layout, but...
Hornblower
Not to hijack, but where to get inexpensive vehicles for layouts set in the 1980s? Thanks!