Sarting out new to the hobby, as an old man, I see so many references by HO operators to using Kadee No. 5 couplers. So much so that I plan on modifying all my engines and rolling stock to use the Kadee No. 5.
While this is an easy descision where a Kadee coupler is not provided, but what about a piece of equipment that has a Kadee No. 158 Whisker or any other Kadee coupler attached?
Will a Kadee No. 5 work well with a No. 158 Whisker or other Kadee model attached?
Additionally, can any combination of the couplers mentioned above be uncoupled, magnetically, if coupled togrther?
The newer Kadee #148 wisker couplers are an improvement on, and direct replacement for, the older#5s. The #158 (and #58) couplers are so called "scale" and are smaller and more prototypical than the #5s. However my experience (and other's) is the scale couplers do not work quite as well, especially when mating with the larger #148 or #5s. I have even gone to replacing #158s on newer cars with Kadaee 148s and their #242 snap gear boxes.
Charlie, Northern Colorado
My experience is the opposite. I have been a long-time user and advocate of Kadee couplers in general, and for years I equipped my fleet with #5s. When the mre scale #58s came out, I picked up a few and started using them.
I had a decent sized fleet of old freight cars, mostly BB Athearns and some Tyco/Mantua cars, all of which had horn-hooks and a number had Talgo trucks as well. It was a long process, but eventually I had all the couplers changed to body-mounted Kadees and all the wheelsets replaced with Intermountains.
There is no sharp line where I switched to the #58s, so my fleet is kind of a mix of the larger couplers and the scale ones. Whenever I assemble a kit, it also gets replacement couplers and wheelsets if necessary. I am, admittedly, kind of meticulous about coupler mounting and trackwork in general, and in the years since I've played mix-and-match with couplers, I've never found a problem with the couplers themselves.
It's always the trackwork, either a dip, a rise, a kink or something else I did badly once upon a time. So that gets fixed, too.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Welcome to the hobby from one not-young-anymore train fan to another.
I keep a few packets of Kadee "Ol' Number 5s" around for replacing the couplers on old Atlas Yellow Box (YB) locomotives, of which I've bought several used and which are wonderful runners. They often come with their original horn couplers, to which I do not cotton. The replacement coupler has to go through a narrow slot in the pilot, which is not big enough for a regular coupler box. The No. 5 coupler box is narrower and, after having the plastic "ears" on each side of the box clipped off clean and flush, fits through that slot perfectly.
-Matt
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
Welcome jerseyboy1,
There is nothing wrong with the old reliable #5 KD. I've installed quite a few in the old kits such as Athearn blue box, Accuail, MDC/Roundhouse etc. I have found the draft gear boxes on the redbox Walthers can be a little tight, and if the KD #5 binds a bit, the #148 whisker equivelent can work a little better without the bronze spring.
I picked up a pack of the "scale-head" KD's which came with the bronze spring (like the #5) at a train show since they were on close out, and as I was adding them to kit models, I found they look a lot nicer than the regular head #5 KD's.
Also, I've bought quite a few ExactRail, Tangent, Wheels of Time, Moloco and Intermountain freight cars and all of them come with the scale head couplers. Those are all high quality detailed high fidelity models, so the scale head suites them and does work well.
I've decided as I convert my Athearn/Genesis freight cars from McHenry and my Atlas freight cars from Acumate, I'll be using the 158 scale head KD's. They do mate with the regular #5 head but not quite as gracefully.
A kadee height gauge is must so you can check the coupler height against it and adjust as needed. You want all your KD's to have the correct height.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Kadee makes several diffferent couplers. Sometimes you need to examine your equipment and read Kadee informations. AHM passenger cars have their own adaptors for Kadee Couplers. Sometimes you need an overset or underset coupler to make them line up correctly. Be sure you get the Kadee coupler gauge so you will know what you need to do. Sometimes a fiber washer is needed to lift a car so that the couplers mate correctly.
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
I've been using Kadee couplers since 1956, back when there were not yet ones for magnetic uncoupling. I haven't had any issues using #5s, with the more scale-sized ones, either, and use the latter ones on all of my newer cars and locomotives like these...
...and on a dozen of these, too...
...and on most of my locomotives, too...
Wayne
@Wayne, I see your brick factory there is under wraps. Is that about to become an art installation by Christo and Jeanne-Claude?
CharlieM The newer Kadee #148 wisker couplers are an improvement on, and direct replacement for, the older#5s. The #158 (and #58) couplers are so called "scale" and are smaller and more prototypical than the #5s. However my experience (and other's) is the scale couplers do not work quite as well, especially when mating with the larger #148 or #5s. I have even gone to replacing #158s on newer cars with Kadaee 148s and their #242 snap gear boxes. Charlie, Northern Colorado
I agree with all of the above. If I was starting out from scratch, I would buy KD 148s exclusively but the #5 is an old reliable and doesn't need replacing. It just requires a separate brass spring. The 148 just makes life simpler. Once installed properly, I can't tell the difference.
I'm snooty when it comes to couplers. Almost all of my locos and rolling stock get KDs. The exceptions are items that don't have a standard coupler pocket and I haven't figured out which KD it takes or pieces that I have overlooked. Every once in a while I find one and I immediately remedy that.
Just yesterday, I had to install a decoder in a new Bowser RS-3 I had purchased and to remove the shell, I had to remove the coupler pockets first. At first glance, they appeared to be KDs. The had a metal knuckle with small spring in the knuckle like KDs but when I got the pocket cover off, I discovered they were knock offs. Instead of the wire whiskers, they were made of plastic. They immediately went into the trash can and I dipped into my drawerful of #148 couplers.
I replaced the horn hooks on almost 90 Athearn BB freight cars with KD5s. Every one of them needed fiber washers to bring them up to correct height. Several needed two washers. I still can't believe I changed 180 couplers and 180 washer inserts, but it was a gradual process as I purchased the cars over the years so it was as much fun as putting them together, as a hobby should be.
BB cars look great and have plenty enough detail for my eyes. Those black plastic wheels roll forever. I bought most of them for $4-5 original price sticker back before the big markup when hobby shops couldn't give them away. Now for some reason they're golden. Still have all the original boxes and instructions. -Rob
Mister Mikado I replaced the horn hooks on almost 90 Athearn BB freight cars with KD5s. Every one of them needed fiber washers to bring them up to correct height. Several needed two washers. I still can't believe I changed 180 couplers and 180 washer inserts, but it was a gradual process as I purchased the cars over the years so it was as much fun as putting them together, as a hobby should be. BB cars look great and have plenty enough detail for my eyes. Those black plastic wheels roll forever. I bought most of them for $4-5 original price sticker back before the big markup when hobby shops couldn't give them away. Now for some reason they're golden. Still have all the original boxes and instructions. -Rob
One of the problems with the Athearn BB freight cars that I discovered way too late is the metal weight isn't always perfectly flat. If it is bowed at all, the floor and chassis will bow with it which will affect the coupler height. I still have quite a few Athearn BB cars from a previous layout and I've discovered that if you step on the weight, it will flatten out and there is less likelihood the coupler will be at the wrong height. You might still need to put a washer in but you shouldn't need 2 or 3 to get the right height.
They've stopped making the BB kits and my LHS doesn't carry the RTR. Accurail has filled the void left when Athearn quit making cheap shake-the-box kits. For my money, Accurail makes a better product. I've heard that Athearn finally ditched their coupler boxes with the metal clip. If so, that's a good idea even if it is about four decades too late.
MisterBeasley My experience is the opposite. I have been a long-time user and advocate of Kadee couplers in general, and for years I equipped my fleet with #5s. When the mre scale #58s came out, I picked up a few and started using them. I had a decent sized fleet of old freight cars, mostly BB Athearns and some Tyco/Mantua cars, all of which had horn-hooks and a number had Talgo trucks as well. It was a long process, but eventually I had all the couplers changed to body-mounted Kadees and all the wheelsets replaced with Intermountains. There is no sharp line where I switched to the #58s, so my fleet is kind of a mix of the larger couplers and the scale ones. Whenever I assemble a kit, it also gets replacement couplers and wheelsets if necessary. I am, admittedly, kind of meticulous about coupler mounting and trackwork in general, and in the years since I've played mix-and-match with couplers, I've never found a problem with the couplers themselves. It's always the trackwork, either a dip, a rise, a kink or something else I did badly once upon a time. So that gets fixed, too.
I experimented with the KD scale couplers and while they operated as well as the larger couplers, they were less forgiving. If your coupler height is even slightly off, there is a chance of unwanted uncoupling. The #5/148 couplers don't have to have perfect height to operate well. I don't mind that they are oversized. They look OK to me.
Maybe I should clarify my comments. My issues with mixing #5/148s with 58/158 scale couplers revolve around coupling and uncoupling only. Once they are coupled they work fine. The problems arise when trying to couple our present free rolling cars with unmatched couplers. The free rolling cars tend to roll away and sometimes need a bit of a jolt to couple. The other issue is uncoupling with between the rails magnetic uncouplers. The scale couplers don't respond as well and their sideways throw is more limited. YMMV but that's my experience. As Mister Beasley notes, if coupler height is correct and trackwork is good they all should stay together OK.
Charlie
When I returned to the hobby after a 30 year hiatus, I found it very helpful to pick up a Kadee Coupler Test Kit. It comes with a large selection of the most used couplers, as well as the height gauge, their lubricant, a couple un couplers, and some examples of their available hardware such as screws, shim washers, and extra springs. It also has a sheet with a listing of the known conversion options. It was handy to see the different available couplers and compare them to each other. For what you get in the kit, the price was a bargain. It was very handy to have different examples of the couplers to test fit.
....Paul
I have been using Kadee couplers for a long long time, like forever. The traditional #5 and the new #148 whisker coupler work just fine, IF you make sure that are mounted at the proper height. For which you need a coupler height gage. I made mine, using the NMRA gage to get the height right. The scale couplers are smaller than the standard #5 and company. Which means you have to take greater care to get the height right. Most Athearn blue box cars couplers will come out low unless you put a #5 flat washer until each truck. Kadee makes a grunch of different couplers to fit every pieve of rolling stock made in the last 50 years. The "what fits what" list is in the big Walthers catalog and on the web. If you have an unusual piece of rolling stock, or a locamotive, you can save yourself a lot of filing and hacking and cussing but looking up Kadee's recommended coupler in the "what fits what" list.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
crossthedog @Wayne, I see your brick factory there is under wraps. Is that about to become an art installation by Christo and Jeanne-Claude?
Nope - They are fumigating the building. Still
I have had only a few cars not like scale sized 58/158's.
But my tank cars get 118/119's, and others get either 148/158 series.
Only couplers I do not immediately swap out are real KD's, or metal KD clones. (Proto-max, Scaletrains, etc...)
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
Lastspikemike Kadee makes handy fibre washers in two thicknesses: grey and red.
Kadee makes handy fibre washers in two thicknesses: grey and red.
The gray washer is .010" thick.
The red washer is .015" thick.
Both washers are 1/4"OD, 1/8" ID.
Alton Junction
richhotrainGray and Red are colors, not thicknesses.
You are right Rich.
I think someone should take their own (unwanted) advice and be more accurate when posting specific information.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
That building is Tucketts Tobacco, a somewhat decent version of the real one that existed in my hometown of Hamilton, Ontario.
I heard a rumour that Banksy was in town, and didn't really want his freelance work to embellish my trackside businesses.
In truth, though, the Saran wrap was place over the structure so that I could add some ground cover, without ending-up with "grass" growing out of the brick walls.
Around half my fleet has #5's, and the other half #58's. When the 58's first came out, I bought around 25 of the 4 packs. I still have a bunch of them left, so it'll be awhile before I start installing the whisker couplers (which I like better than the ones that use the brass centering spring. Oh well).
I generally don't have a problem with the 5's and 158's coupling with each other, but they don't do so quite as easily as a 5 to another 5, or even a 158 to another 158. Every now and then I have to use my uncoupling skewer to push the couplers around a bit to get them to mate, but hey! Prototype coupling, even now, sometimes takes some fussing by the switchman. So I figure it's just another facet of operating like the prototype, if it doesn't take too much effort.
When uncoupling a 158 (regardless of what it's coupled up with) it takes a bit more finess with the skewer than do two 5's (I don't do any magnetic uncoupling). But that also isn't much of a problem generally. On rare occasion I do have to lift one car a bit to get the 158 to let go.
As far as "delayed uncoupling," that's as easy with a skewer as it is with the magnets pretty much. I just push one coupler to the side, and off I go!
All in all I prefer the smaller size of the 158, even if it is a bit more finnicky than the 5. But then again, I like the .088 wheel treads, too.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
All the equipment I have that I have changed the couplers on have either #5s or 148s for the "base" couplers. Almost all the #5s are on cars that orignally came with them when I got them (I've picked up quite a few used over the years.) and when they've needed replacing I just keep them. Anything new non-RTR gets 148s (or other 140 series) as appropriate. They are so much easier to work with.
richhotrain Lastspikemike Kadee makes handy fibre washers in two thicknesses: grey and red. Gray and Red are colors, not thicknesses. The gray washer is .010" thick. The red washer is .015" thick. Both washers are 1/4"OD, 1/8" ID.
Gray and Red are colors, not thicknesses.
You took the words right out of my paw!
I do have a few cases which I've converted to #58 couplers and I will likely go back to #5s. They are my Rivarossi passenger coaches and baggage car. These come with swing coupler pockets, and the #58 couplers just seem vary loose and I get some uncoupling as a train moves along.
My problems with difficult coupling happen because rolling stock upgrades generally mean both coupler and wheelsets replacement, including truck painting and weathering and the good old Micro-Mark truck tuner. Replacing wheelsets results in significantly better free rolling cars, but they are sometimes hard to keep in place to couple, even on flat track. I even "plant" tall grass between the rails in dead-end sidings to keep cars from rolling away. I know. First-world problems from swapping out old plastic wheelsets.