BNSF UP and others modeler John-NYBW You seem to have a feeling of entitlement. If you think a seller's asking price is ridiculously high, just don't buy what he's selling. Not entitlement, but say/know how in what I'm talking about... Again, I design these models myself, as I've noted. I do the same things as many of these sellers 3d design wise, and I still hold that they are ripping people off. Taking advantage of people who want a certian model under the guise of "well if you don't like the price, you can go elsewhere" while charging silly high prices is a very poor attitude to maintain with fellow modelers especially when your model is the only one of its kind available. With many 3d models, there simply IS no where else to get this model. The key here isn't freebies, its economical pricing. Have you taken a look at shapeways pricing on your own? You might be surprised to see just how much is being charged for some stuff.
John-NYBW You seem to have a feeling of entitlement. If you think a seller's asking price is ridiculously high, just don't buy what he's selling.
You seem to have a feeling of entitlement. If you think a seller's asking price is ridiculously high, just don't buy what he's selling.
Not entitlement, but say/know how in what I'm talking about...
Again, I design these models myself, as I've noted. I do the same things as many of these sellers 3d design wise, and I still hold that they are ripping people off.
Taking advantage of people who want a certian model under the guise of "well if you don't like the price, you can go elsewhere" while charging silly high prices is a very poor attitude to maintain with fellow modelers especially when your model is the only one of its kind available. With many 3d models, there simply IS no where else to get this model. The key here isn't freebies, its economical pricing.
Have you taken a look at shapeways pricing on your own? You might be surprised to see just how much is being charged for some stuff.
I've never done any 3D programming but I was a mainframe computer programmer and I know what a tedious process any kind of programming can be. There is a lot of trial and error. Someone who does the work to create elaborate structures owns the result of that work. It's called intellectual property. That person has every right to charge whatever he pleases for that property and you are not entitled to the fruits of another person's labor just because you want it. If you want it, you must either pay the asking price or negotiate a lower price but the seller is under no obligation to meet your desired price.
When you create 3D files, they are yours to do with as you please. If you choose to make them available as shareware, that is your right to do so. It's your property. That doesn't obligate somebody else to do likewise.
I've seen samples of this person's work and I am very impressed by it. It's obvious a great deal of time and effort went into creating them. He has apparently created something a significant value and he has a right to ask whatever price he wants for it. Either pay the price or do the work to create your own 3D files.
I have bought a few small items from Shapeways and I intend to buy more. What they offered was worth it to me to pay their price. If I thought it was too high, I wouldn't have bought it. It's that simple. Pay the price or go without.
I'd like to have a new Ferrari but I can't find anyone who will sell me one at a price I can afford. I guess I'll just have to make do with my Chevy Spark.
Admittedly the topic and stance of this thread isn't for everyone. The purpose of this thread was to talk about the advantages of personal 3d printing and the ability to save money via its utilization in the scale modeling usecase. If you do not care about saving money or designing/sharing/printing your own models with other like minded modelers, this thread probably isn't for you.
I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.
BNSF UP and others modelerAdmittedly the topic and stance of this thread isn't for everyone.
Yes, I guess so.
BNSF UP and others modelerThe purpose of this thread was to talk about the advantages of personal 3d printing and the ability to save money via its utilization in the scale modeling
Yes, I can see there are advantages. However, for us mere mortals there is, I presume, a learning curve along with the necessity to purchase the necessary equipment, along with the learning curve associated with whatever CAD program we would need to purchase.
BNSF UP and others modeler If you do not care about saving money or designing/sharing/printing your own models with other like minded modelers,
I'm all about saving money, but don't have the technical savvy to do the d/s/p part.
However, I do have a suggestion. Why don't you gather all the designs you've made and are willing to share at some location and post a link to them? I would be more than willing to copy any information that I might find useful and take it to someplace with the proper printing equipment (I understand that some public library now have that capability) and get what I need made.
I might even be willing to provide you with some ideas for simple things that I personally would like to see be made inexpensively.
maxman I'm all about saving money, but don't have the technical savvy to do the d/s/p part. However, I do have a suggestion. Why don't you gather all the designs you've made and are willing to share at some location and post a link to them? I would be more than willing to copy any information that I might find useful and take it to someplace with the proper printing equipment (I understand that some public library now have that capability) and get what I need made.
Sure thing. I'll post the links to my wellcar body + detial parts + wheels folder, the folder with models of shipping containers I've found online, and a folder with models of aircraft I've found online (I've been collecting for future use).
Some disclaimers: the only models I own are those in the 48' wellcar folder. Those are completely my work, they took several months to create, they are already HO scale, and they are print ready, the wellcar OBJ files even being pre supported for immediate printing. 95% of the parts for this car have been created, the only things missing are the tiny metal brackets that stick out from the corners of the wellcar, one brake assembly piece, and a couple body frame details. Now, for those on this forum or any online viewer who happens to come across this thread: these may be printed for personal use ONLY. You may make modifications to the files for personal use as you see fit, but please share them so the rest of us can benefit. If you want the origional .skp files, you will need to PM me. I've only provided the OBJ and STL files. You may NOT take credit for these models as your own or sell them, files OR the prints. The coupler pockets will take standard kadee #5 coupler boxes. You will need to drill your own mounting holes for the trucks. This model comes with no promises or "warranty". I'm not responsible for print failures or similar model frustration. There are images of some of the prints I've made in the folder as well. These have not been layout tested, nor have I completely assembled one of my own kits yet. Follow prototype photos and the general assembly of the intermountain model this is based on if you happen to have one on hand. Should be pretty self explanatory. Good luck.
Ok phew. Now, as for the rest of the models (in the aircraft and shipping container folders) those are not mine. You can do whatever you want with them sans take credit for them or sell them or their prints. They are mostly not scaled to HO or otherwise, and some are in STEP, STP, or other 3d formats. I highly recommend importing those into FreeCad, which can handle all of them and easily convert them to STL or OBJ.
To answer your last question Maxman, I don't really have the time to create any models at present, so I'm afraid I can't do much with your offer to provide ideas. All my recent printing has been of models I've gotten online or already made. I'm also not planning on selling my work at present. Additionally, I would caution you if you do decide to print my models that you do so on a resin 3d printer, not the one at your library. They were designed for resin 3d printing and as such, will be very unforgiving to the less precise tradtional filament printers that most libraries utilize. You could get away with printing the main body with this kind of printer, but nothing else would work.
Wellcar:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ajs2Zeeqc6EMiCisy-2lZcOlbByl?e=AHTkaC
Aircraft:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ajs2Zeeqc6EMiD20Cg7fEQcwU_le?e=zO5Y42
Shipping containers:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ajs2Zeeqc6EMiE8BGGBRTHoXxqvH?e=RZx3Np
Let me know if you guys have trouble with the links not working as well...
Ok managed to get all the links up. Have a looksee, maybe you can find something usable.
This discussion reminds me uncomfortably of my mainframe programmer days."Programming isn't difficult! It's just words."Furthermore, I have no desire to learn a new software system and start a new hobby. If I want something that's 3D printed I'll pay for it.The creator has the right to ask whatever price they want. I have the right to decide to pay that price or not.Isn't that peachy?
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Bayfield Transfer Railway...
BNSF UP and others modeler Admittedly the topic and stance of this thread isn't for everyone. The purpose of this thread was to talk about the advantages of personal 3d printing and the ability to save money via its utilization in the scale modeling usecase. If you do not care about saving money or designing/sharing/printing your own models with other like minded modelers, this thread probably isn't for you.
Speaking of just peachy
maxman BNSF UP and others modeler I do not think it is fair for the minority who have the time, equipment, and skills to demand premium prices for their work, unless they had to invest several months and a lot of money into the model. Really? Fair to whom? The person who did all the work? Or the person who wants it for free?
BNSF UP and others modeler I do not think it is fair for the minority who have the time, equipment, and skills to demand premium prices for their work, unless they had to invest several months and a lot of money into the model.
Really?
Fair to whom? The person who did all the work? Or the person who wants it for free?
I think I will express something I have learned...If somebody makes a job look easy, a painter doing a piece, an engineer calculating a solution to a problem, a musician picking up a guitar and banging out a tune, that thing they made look easy represents hundreds of hours of hard work that you don't see in learning to master that subject.The minority who has the time, equipment, and skills; became such through countless silent hours of banging their head against the wall, hashing out how to render files, doing test prints to see if their idea worked in the real world and what had to be tweaked, making measurements off a prototype to transfer it into model form, etc... assuming that the prices they charge for file access is overdone is unfair to the people who put in the work.Its like the Little Red Hen says, if you want the bread you have to put in the work for it... and those guys did and unless you want to master the process of drafting and making a model then testing how it works on a printer to prove you can do it better than them; you aren't really in a place to complain about their prices or negotiate for cheaper prices.
xboxtravis7992 Its like the Little Red Hen says, if you want the bread you have to put in the work for it... and those guys did and unless you want to master the process of drafting and making a model then testing how it works on a printer to prove you can do it better than them; you aren't really in a place to complain about their prices or negotiate for cheaper prices.
Its like the Little Red Hen says, if you want the bread you have to put in the work for it... and those guys did and unless you want to master the process of drafting and making a model then testing how it works on a printer to prove you can do it better than them; you aren't really in a place to complain about their prices or negotiate for cheaper prices.
I will recieve your comment as an ignorant statement (intentional or otherwise I do not know), knowing that is is quite clear that you have not made any effort to look at the wellcar model I designed (linked in my post higher up this page).
Seriously if you are going to tell people things about them that are blatantly untrue without even looking at their months of work on a single project they are offering to forum members for FREE, than your accusation of my not being in a place to make statements about others' prices holds absolutely no ground.
I designed that model from scratch, I actively tested it (I have a picture of my successful prints in that wellcar folder if you would even just look) and I spent a long time on actual model design and then further time on ironing out print failures.
I've done my work. I'm no different in design ability than these other sellers.
'Nuff said.
Just trying to be diplomatic here, but this debate flared up over the original statement that you "didn't think it was fair to charge premium prices for those that don't have equipment." Maybe you didn't mean to say it like that.
I commended you for being gracious to create and share models with the community. That's a really nice thing to do. But don't preface it with spite towards those looking to make some money. I've personally never sold anything, but I've been taken advantage of. To have you stuff downloaded, modified, reposted and resold is hurtful. The way people combat this is high prices. Someone is less likely to take advantage of you on $50 download vs a $10 one. That issue aside it's often justified by the risk and time it takes to get everything going. Once you gain momentum, improve work efficiency, become savy with copyrights and licenses and your work is free errors, many choose to drop the prices.
I encourage people to try and learn something new. Printers are coming down in price Learning 3D software is great for the mind, and the possibilities are endless. I'm not at home right now, but the printer is running off a couple building models for a friend's layout and I'm not there...what a time to be in the hobby! Fortunately that friend is appreciative and covering my NHL game ticket tonight. Everyone benefits.
NorthsideChi Just trying to be diplomatic here, but this debate flared up over the original statement that you "didn't think it was fair to charge premium prices for those that don't have equipment." Maybe you didn't mean to say it like that. I commended you for being gracious to create and share models with the community. That's a really nice thing to do. But don't preface it with spite towards those looking to make some money. I've personally never sold anything, but I've been taken advantage of. To have you stuff downloaded, modified, reposted and resold is hurtful. The way people combat this is high prices. Someone is less likely to take advantage of you on $50 download vs a $10 one. That issue aside it's often justified by the risk and time it takes to get everything going. Once you gain momentum, improve work efficiency, become savy with copyrights and licenses and your work is free errors, many choose to drop the prices. I encourage people to try and learn something new. Printers are coming down in price Learning 3D software is great for the mind, and the possibilities are endless. I'm not at home right now, but the printer is running off a couple building models for a friend's layout and I'm not there...what a time to be in the hobby! Fortunately that friend is appreciative and covering my NHL game ticket tonight. Everyone benefits.
There's no need for you to defend your desire to make money from your hard work. What you have created is yours to do with as you please, including charging others who want to benefit from your work.
The free market is a wonderful way of determing a fair price for any commodity. What you have is worth whatever others are willing to pay for it. Your work is very impressive and you have every right to make money from it.
xboxtravis7992That thing they made look easy represents hundreds of hours of hard work that you don't see in learning to master that subject.
Well said, 100%.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
NorthsideChi Just trying to be diplomatic here, but this debate flared up over the original statement that you "didn't think it was fair to charge premium prices for those that don't have equipment." Maybe you didn't mean to say it like that.
I meant to say it exactly like that, but unfortunately there seems to be a difficulty with certain posts in response to mine understanding the difference between "premium prices" and "prices."
I feel like a broken record here. Posters, PLEASE read my posts on this thread before submitting a contribution, in agreement or otherwise. As I've already stated multiple times, I'm not opposed to people charging for their work. I'm opposed to the extremely high pricing people demand for something that I seem to be failing to prove (even if I post my own work) is not worth as much as being charged (I've already posted shapeways links as examples, and I very much am tired of repeating myself).
This thread is based of my perspective/ premise that the selling of these 3d models nowadays isn't the issue. Its the price of the 3d prints. File cost itself is something different and those prices ought to be much higher for a decent model as unpermitted resale is an issue, but on this thread I've been talking about the cost of the models, not the files.
Again, if you are not interested in exploring the possibilites of doing your own model design and printing to circumvent commercial 3d printed model services, or discussing possibilites for printing the model I am giving to you guys completely free, I would strongly advise you pursue and participate in threads that more align with your opinions, unless you are able to post in a manner that does not divert and hijack the intention of the origional post. And please please stop trying to get one more post in to continue the arguement or have the last word. I will not name names, but you know who you are...
This thread is in danger of being locked. This was supposed to invite collaboration for those who would like to consider doing something similar to what I am.
Lets get back to that please, for those of you who posted that you are interested in that possibilty.
It's very simple. If somebody is asking more for a product than you think it is worth, don't buy it. If you do buy it, you are saying it is worth what you are paying for it.
If you want the thread to be about designing and creating 3D models, you should keep your comments on that subject. When you start to complain about what other people are charging for their work, you invite rebuttals.