Walthers ready-to-run

[Glen1]

I'm not posting this message to start another debate over ready-to-run vs kits. That topic has been, and probably will continue to be, debated by many of us. This is a comment about Walthers rolling stock.

I read with interest the message from Walthers about their moving towards ready-to-run equipment. I hope they understand what the term means to most modelers. It means that you can take the car out of the box and run it. It's done. The Athearn Genesis cars are a good example. The only thing I typically do is change the couplers. That's a personal choice. It's not necessary to do this to run the cars.

Walthers, on the other hand, sells their 85' Budd cars in boxes marked ready-to-run. The prices for the cars would seem to reflect that. The problem is that there are many grabs to be installed. These are included in a plastic bag. Personally, I don't enjoy drilling all the holes for these and mounting them. If others do, fine. But I don't. As far as I'm concerned, if I pay for a car that's advertised as ready-to-run, that's what I expect to get. Not a bag of parts.

So, Walthers, if you have decided to offer your rolling stock as ready-to-run and if you are going to charge a price that reflects that, fini***he cars. No more bags of parts. If other manufacturers can do it, you should be able to as well.

[ksax73]

You make an interesting point and it's hard not to agree with you.

I think thier reasoning for the bag of grab irons is to avoid problems with the pre-installed parts falling off in transit. It's probably just easier to keep track of all the pieces if there was just a bag with the parts inside.

Don't get me wrong, I think you're right but if you're looking for an answer to your question that's probably the best one you can get (I think).

One example was when Walthers did the phase V AMD-103s with Athearn. There were two runs; both came R-T-R. The first run required no assemby at all. The second run however required seperate application of the review mirrors. I can only assume that this was due to the pieces falling off in transit or a poor job by the person assembling the model. The first two AMD-103s I got from the first run had this issue. I was affraid that the pieces were lost but I carefully searched the box and found them. Some people don't have the same luck and end up callling in angry because certain pieces are missing (Very understandable because I would do the same).

Hope this provides more of an explanation!

[CP5415]

I understand what you are saying

By doing it this way, it will save Walthers & all of Walthers passenger car buyers the aggravation of returning cars because, during shipping, these parts probably would have been damaged.

Just my 2 cents

Gordon

[Glen1]

Thanks for yor thoughts. The issue of broken parts is an intertesting one and, more than likely, that's what I might hear from Walthers on this topic.

I would counter, however, that other manufacturers such as Athearn, Atlas and Intermountain have all managed to design packaging that will accommodate their cars and eliminate most breakage. It could be that Walthers needs to invest and little effort in doing the same. In other words, if the rationale for shipping parts in a separate bag is becuase the packaging is sub-standard, they should fix the packaging. I feel we're paying for this when we pay the additional cost for ready-to-run equipment.

[Anonymous]

Ok.. here we go.

I find it interesting that walthers thinks that there will be a problem with grab irons and stuff during transit.

I have a set of 4 Atlas 36' War Bonds Reefers in different numbers that I carry from layout to home in the same boxes they came in... these cars feature opening doors with latch, opening hatches, grab irons all over the place and finsihed with couplers. If they can survive UPS, LHS and my throwing them into the suitcase along with 15 other cars to transport to a friends layout without losing the iron.. Walthers needs to examine thier packing materials and perhaps renovate the boxes so that they can withstand robust handling.

I personally dont take the time to install grab irons and what not on ready to run.. as far as I am concerned for the money I paid for the darn things they go on the track with maybe Kaydee Couplers and Metal Wheels and that is it. The little bitty bags of irons stays in my plastic parts cabinet. Probably never to be installed.

Now if the thing was a KIT.. I will take the time to install the iron. I have some assembled cars to prove it. Eventually they break off and get lost sometimes.

I agree that they are kind of pricey for the way they pack and ship em and perhaps the extra expense of the little baggies and time to pack those may be removed by copying methods used by ATLAS or other manufactors in shipping similar cars without damage.

The old AHM way of plastic packing the cars are out. Foam and strong cardboard is in. Sure they cost more but what makes me laugh is I would consider a Intermountain or Atlas car FIRST before looking at walthers because of the grab iron issue. If I am already spending that kind of money on RTR, by dam I expect it to be RTR!

[Don Gibson]

WALTHERS:

THEY ARE ready to run - out of the box. Just set them on the track, and away they go.Perhaps you are referring to the package of 'Super Detail' that can be added - or not .- depending on your moods - or skills.

Cars coming with THAT level of custom work are available -in brass, including interiors- for onty $400. (Coach Yard}, OR, you can get cars with molded-on artificial grabs and dimensions (Athrearn), OR - you can get cars thay won't stay on the track (IHC).

I think you should consider writing WALTHERS your thoughts on RTR and how you -as a modeler- would be willing to pay more just to have ALL the detail done for you. While you are at it, send copies to all the RTR maufacturer's.You might be doing you fellow 'modelers' a favor.

At one time, hobbyist's made their own cars out of wood. It was a hobby.
How archaic.

I'm reminded of the saying about Cameras. "When one makes something
'idiot proof' only idiot's will buy it."

[AntonioFP45]

Guys,

Those of you complaining about Walther's passenger car prices need to e-mail or call Walthers so that you can receive the "Walthers Flyer" in the mail, which offers discounted prices on select Walthers products from participating hobby shops and dealers.

For the past 4 months, many of the Walther's HO passenger cars have been selling for $24.98 in the Flyer! All I do is go to my LHS, open the flyer and show the manager the passenger car I want and instead of paying $34.98, I pay the discount price. Cheaper than Ebay!

Reason I bring this up is that back in the mid 80s, Rivorossi 85ft streamlined passenger cars were going for $22.00-$24.00! No details, no knuckle couplers, no interior! By the time I added details, I could've had $40 invested in that car! So today, we're still not getting a bad deal!

[BRVRR]

Guys,
I have purchased three of the Walthers heavyweight passenger cars for the BRVRR. The paint and finish is good, though I question the colors a little. The super detailing parts, read grab irons, are optional in the RTR cars. I have installed them, but that is me. The important thing is that the cars come out of the box and onto the layout. Right weight, right coupler height, and proper wheel guage, right out of the box. I also have a pair or NYC box cars. Same general scenario, minus the grab irons. So far I think the new RTR Walthers cars are quite good. A little expensive, yes, but I too shop for bargains. I think Walther deserves a pat on the back for a quality product.

[tstage]

RTR? Not always the case.

I've bought two Walthers gondolas and a 30' cupola caboose and I've had to trim and hack and change wheel sets and trucks in order for them to be able to negotiate an 18" radius curve without resistance. The details good and they are great on the straight away but the curves still slow them down - the caboose worse than the gondolas. (Proto 2000 trucks and wheel sets resolved the dragging problem on the gondolas.)

If Walthers really wants to go the ALL RTR route, they should really consider revamping and/or making some modications to their current manufacturing dies to improve the action of their rolling stock. (The operable word here is "rolling" - under ALL reasonable circumstances.) To me, negotiating an 18" radius curve would fall under the "reasonable" catagory.

I'm a kt guy and will remain a kit guy until the last one leaves the LHS shelf for the Smithsonian. I only buy RTR when I don't really have much else of an option. (Hence, why I only have three RTR cars in my collection.)

LONG LIVE THE KIT!!!

Tom

P.S. Pre-drilling the grab iron holes would be a plus. Most of the other manufacuters usually do this on their kits.

[Anonymous]

I agree that the Walthers kits should have the grab irons, railings, etc. already installed. I spent a frustrating day trying to get the microscopic grab irons to go into the holes I'd drilled in a 46-ft. gondola car. I finally gave up and put the car back in the box and into storage! If the holes had been pre-drilled I might have handled this... I do have adequate eyesight and have asembled several of the kits where plastic grab irons are glued into predrilled holes. I personally prefer the looks of wire grabirons compared to plastic.
Regards- Richard W.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

RTR? Not always the case.

I've bought two Walthers gondolas and a 30' cupola caboose and I've had to trim and hack and change wheel sets and trucks in order for them to be able to negotiate an 18" radius curve without resistance. The details good and they are great on the straight away but the curves still slow them down - the caboose worse than the gondolas. (Proto 2000 trucks and wheel sets resolved the dragging problem on the gondolas.)

If Walthers really wants to go the ALL RTR route, they should really consider revamping and/or making some modications to their current manufacturing dies to improve the action of their rolling stock. (The operable word here is "rolling" - under ALL reasonable circumstances.) To me, negotiating an 18" radius curve would fall under the "reasonable" catagory.

I'm a kt guy and will remain a kit guy until the last one leaves the LHS shelf for the Smithsonian. I only buy RTR when I don't really have much else of an option. (Hence, why I only have three RTR cars in my collection.)

LONG LIVE THE KIT!!!

Tom

P.S. Pre-drilling the grab iron holes would be a plus. Most of the other manufacuters usually do this on their kits.

And the Smithsonian probably will hire you to catalog and classify the kits to be exhibited. And maintain the kits in storage he he.

I am teasing you with [:D]

[tstage]

HighIron2003ar,

...and I would probably take the job, if they offered it...[:D]

Tom

[CP5415]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Guys,

Those of you complaining about Walther's passenger car prices need to e-mail or call Walthers so that you can receive the "Walthers Flyer" in the mail, which offers discounted prices on select Walthers products from participating hobby shops and dealers.

For the past 4 months, many of the Walther's HO passenger cars have been selling for $24.98 in the Flyer! All I do is go to my LHS, open the flyer and show the manager the passenger car I want and instead of paying $34.98, I pay the discount price. Cheaper than Ebay!

Reason I bring this up is that back in the mid 80s, Rivorossi 85ft streamlined passenger cars were going for $22.00-$24.00! No details, no knuckle couplers, no interior! By the time I added details, I could've had $40 invested in that car! So today, we're still not getting a bad deal!

Antonio, I've been doing this as well.
I picked up 2 Amtrak Horizon cars for $20 Canadian.
I also picked up 4 Canadian Pacific cars for $150 Canadian including taxes through my LHS.
I always check out Walthers website before heading out to my LHS.
It's saved me money knowing when things are on sale.

Gordon

[waltersrails]

i love there ready to run i like the ortners best.

[ereimer]

QUOTE: And the Smithsonian probably will hire you to catalog and classify the kits to be exhibited. And maintain the kits in storage he he.

i'd take the job , but do you think they'd be ticked off when they came in one morning and the kits had been assembled ?

[:D]

[ereimer]

QUOTE: I think thier reasoning for the bag of grab irons is to avoid problems with the pre-installed parts falling off in transit. It's probably just easier to keep track of all the pieces if there was just a bag with the parts inside.

doesn't explain why they don't drill the holes for the grabs . as far as i'm concerned if there's parts in the box that need to be attached , optional or not , then it's a kit , not RTR and the price should reflect that

[rrinker]

OK I guess I'm going to be the contrarian here. First off, I don;t do passenger trains, so I have NONE of the items mentioned. But my father-in-law does.
Obviously some people like kits - even CRUDE kits - as witnessed byt he fact that he gets more for his old Walthers unbuilt kits than the cost of the new (same car) in RTR form. And the RTR cars, even WITHOTU installignt he grabs, have FAR more detail than any of those old Walther's kits - plus they already have the interiors! He LOVES to build kits, but sees no reason to spend the time building the old Walthers kit when for the same price he can have a far better detailed kit - painted and lettered too!
Grabs are fragile, unless they are metal, then they just get bent out of shape. Sure you can package them - look at a Kadee car. And half the cost of one of those beautiful Kadee cars is in that complex plastic tray they use to prevent damage to the delicate grabs. Which goes out the window the moment you remove the car from the package. So you need a few twists of the pin vise. I do that on most of the kits I build anyway, makes the small parts fit in better since it clears paint and whatnot from the holes.
Same deal with the Intermountain RTR versions of Bethlehem Car Works kits. Unless you pay full retail (and I don't, not even at the LHS), the cost of the RTR car is LESS than the kit! Not at first galnce, but then add trucks, paint, decals, couplers, etc and you end up spending more for the kit. Even the nice Branchline car kits - til you add it up, the RTR versions cost maybe $10 more than the kit. In this time of limited hobby time, that can make a big difference, because those are not fall together kits.
I not about to give up my Branchline and P2K freight car kits, and I really wish Red Caboose would reconsider going to all RTR. I'm not anti kit or anti-RTR, I'll pick what gets me the best model for my dollar. I'd love to have all Kadde rolling stock, but I can't afford that, but I did spring for one covered hopper, one because it is an absolutely gorgeous model and two because the purchase helped a good historical society.

--Randy

[dragonriversteel]

I like Walthers kits and RTR,great detail,paint ,ect. I don't mind installing,grip irons and such,it only sharpens the modeler's skills.

Patrick