Choosing between Bachman FT a/b and Proto 2000 8 a/b

[SpaceMouse]

Does anyone have, know of, or can point me to a review of the Bachman Spectrum FT and/or Proto 2000 8A/8B--They are on sale at Trainworld.

(Also which which road would be prettiest? Daughters!)

See my thoughts 3 frames down.

[Anonymous]

no idea on the quality but if they have the Western Pacific Daylight Express colors that is a great color scheme....... silver with the orange nose and stripe

[jrbernier]

They really run decent! They have both an analog and a DCC version of the engine available - I have run both at the LHS. The DCC version was run using a Digitrax system with a DT400R throttle. Not too bad for the price(like $43 MSRP for the DCC version. They have B&O, CB&Q, D&RGW, ATSF(pass) & SAL(IIRC)....
That said, I have not seen them run for any time. Most Bachmann diesels seem to self destruct the motor/bearings/gear train after a lot of running.

Jim Bernier

[M636C]

Spacemouse,

There has been a discussion on the origin of the model number of this EMD locomotive on the related "Trains" forum. I believe that FT stands for "Fourteen Hundred Horsepower Twin Unit". Many of these, but not the Santa Fe units, were built with solid drawbars between the A and B units (hence the "Twin"). I don't believe they ever had a number attached to the FT model code. Santa Fe units were originally called FS, (S for single) but later all were just called FT.

As far as good looking, how could you overlook the Santa Fe Red and Silver? I have an A unit (the B units are new, I haven't seen one yet). The Santa Fe paint isn't absolutely correct, but at the price I couldn't resist one. This, and the other basic Bachmann units run well (if not spectacularly). I haven't run it that much yet. Mine is DC, but if I can, I'll get a DCC equipped B unit to run with it. The Burlington units look nice as well, but the ATSF Warbonnet is great and I miss it in real life!.

Peter

[SpaceMouse]

Okay, I corrected the FT 8A/B mistake--I should learn to read. So here's the deal. I was looking at the Bachman's because they were cheap. I could get a powered a/b set for $50 with DCC. I got an email saying it was not Spectrum but was one of their generic line and that these were average trains.

For the same price the Life-Like makes a Proto 2000 8A /8B both powered, but I would have to add DCC. I'm getting the feeling this is the way to go.

Brings up a question: If you are running a throttle (Digitrax UT-1) that you can only set to one channel do you set up both the A and B units to the same channel?

[fmilhaupt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Okay, I corrected the FT 8A/B mistake--I should learn to read. So here's the deal. I was looking at the Bachman's because they were cheap. I could get a powered a/b set for $50 with DCC. I got an email saying Spectrum was their generic line and that these were average trains.

For the same price the Life-Like makes a Proto 2000 8A /8B both powered, but I would have to add DCC. I'm getting the feeling this is the way to go.

Brings up a question: If you are running a throttle (Digitrax UT-1) that you can only set to one channel do you set up both the A and B units to the same channel?

I concur with Jim Bernier- the Proto 2000 E8A/E8B has far better prospects for a long and happy life. It will also pull the paint off the walls- that locomotive has real guts. One trade-off is that the FT set will look a bit better going around really sharp curves, if you have a lot of 18" radius track and #4 switches, and can overlook the FT's lower level of detail.

The UT-1 throttle can control multiple-unit consists, it just isn't set up to "build" consists itself. There are three of ways of handling multiple-unit consists with the UT-1:

* Since you're talking about an A and B unit consist, and it isn't likely that you'll ever run the B unit without the A unit, there's no harm in programming both to have the same number. This is the most straightforward way of doing this for this combination.

* You could set up an advanced consist- this involves programming each locomotive to have its own number, but then you program CV19 in each locomotive with the same two-digit number. To run it, you just dial up that number that you programmed into CV19 on both units and acquire the consist.

* If you programmed the A and B unit to have different numbers, you would then build them like any other consist of randomly-selected locmotives: Use another throttle (the built-in throttle on a Zephyr system, or a DT300 or a DT400) to build the consist according to the instructions in the manual for that throttle. Once the consist is built on the first throttle, "dispatch" it from that throttle, then set the UT-1 to address 99, and acquire the dispatched consist. This is the way you'd set up any other mixed consist and hand it off to the UT-1, not just a paired A-B set of FTs or E8s.


For a matched A-B set that you aren't likely to intermix with other locomotives, I think the first method is the fastest and easiest, with the second method a close second (in the early days of DCC, these first two were the only ways you could do this). The third is more flexible in the long run, but involves a lot more work than you really need to do in this case, and only makes sense if you frequently mix and match locomotives in consists.

For what it sounds like you want to do, I'd recommend going with the first method, programming both the A and B unit to respond to the last two digits of the number on the A unit.

---

-Fritz Milhaupt
Web Guy, Operations Road Show
http://www.railsonwheels.com/ors

[Anonymous]

You probably know that you need a decoder in each. so, I won't say that.
Then, you can either set the address of each to the same value and run them together that way. Or, you can consist them (Instructions are in the Digitrax manual on how to do this). Then with the UT1 you just pick up that dispatched address which ever one that is.

Clear as mud?

[SpaceMouse]

I should have said this is going to be a club locomotive for my daughter. There are no 18" turns that I know of, most turns are of the 30-48" variety.

I want to pull paint off the walls.

I should look this up, but I'm just going to extrapolate from what you are saying. A "consist" is a programed construct of multiple, independently prorgrammed engines that acts and is controlled as a single unit.

[Anonymous]

Yup, that's what a "consist" is.

[SpaceMouse]

One final question (I can hear you saying "yeah right"--you should really keep your thoughts to yourself). Anyone know of problems with installing decoders in these or are they just plug and pray? I know the Proto 2000 S1 has a an area that must be insulated.

[tstage]

Chip,

Sorry to ignore your current question. I'm going to jump back to the Proto 2000 E8A/8B just for a minute .

Since this is going to be your daughter's replacement for the 4-8-4...and Like-Like has the paint schemes on-line...and, by her own words, "prettty" is a crucial criteria for your daughter's enjoyment of the hobby (as alluded to in an earlier post), maybe this might be a great opportunity for your and your daughtter to go on-line and choose together what paint scheme would be suitable.

Looks like you both have some nice choices to select from. I personally would lean toward the C & O. L & N, Chicago & NW, and Southern aren't bad choices either.

For what's it's worth...

Tom

[SpaceMouse]

Tom,

I ended up getting the Proto F a/b combo and two decoders and did that for less than the cost of what I was going to pay for DCC sound and a speaker. Aren't closeouts wonderful?

And I went with the PRR. Though since we are working on a terminal together we might stick to the same line. Besides there's about 10 PRR passenger cars sitting in our terminal that haven't moved since we got there. [;)]

[tstage]

Chip,

Yep! TW is a GREAT place to shop!!!

$50 for both A/B (and powered) is quite a good deal. Those passenger cars are going to look awfully nice being pullled behind those beauties. Good choice. It's always a good idea to keep the lines the same. I was just keeping your daughter in mind. [:)]

Tom

[Don Gibson]

Why are we comparing Apples to Oranges, or either to Persimmon's?

E-8's were Passenger engines (EMD's next to last offering0 - and FT's were Freight.
Santa Fe geared up a couple during wartime for Passenger service when there were shortages. but FT stood for 'Freight Train' and they were designed to be sold in AB pairs to compete with larger steam engines..
Post war FT's were melded into ''F's - which also stood for 'Freight.'.'S' disignations were used for 'Switcher'.

'E's were fast ,and used mostly by the flatland Eastern roads, but UP and GN used them in multiples on their crack trains. SP had E-7s for their 'Cascade'.

Bachmann diesels haven't recieved favorable reviews or sold well (cause vs. effect?) which is probably why they are being offered cheap with DCC. The P2K E-8's is the engine of choice, and STEWART wins the FT's - hands down. It's smooth, beautiful, and powerful. Have a DCC module installed.

Do I put my money where my mouth is??
I have 3 (ABA) E-8's, and 8 FT's (ABBA ABBB) in Santa FEe blue.

[Anonymous]

Well, it's a moot point now, but did you look at the Proto 1000 offerings at Trainworld? If you (or your daughter) like streamlined locos they have F3s, Erie-builts, and C-liners in a variety of attractive schemes. The F3s and C-liners are 4-axle freight locos and they run very well. Plus, TW has them at a very good price.

I haven't seen the Bachmann FTs, so I can't comment on them, but I do have a Proto 2000 E8A. It's beautiful and very powerful. I bought Frisco because my wife thought it was pretty, so I understand where you're coming from with your daughter.

Gary

[NYCentral1]

I'll agree on the Bachmann FTs. They are a good deal price wise with DCC installed, and they look pretty good detail wise, but they are very noisy and will probably be prone to breakdown in the future.

I've been looking for a good F unit, and I'll probably go with the BLI F7s coming out in the summer.

[Anonymous]

Yep, the Bachmann decoder equipped FT's, as well as the their GP40's and GP50's, are noisy when run under DCC. This is because the circuit board has a Lenz LE1000 decoder incorporated on it. This Lenz decoder is the cheapest in their line. Take note, it is not a silent decoder.

I have the GP50 which came with the Bachmann E-Z Commander setup, and I took out the circuit board and replaced it with a TCS A1 silent decoder board. The difference is amazing. I now have a very smooth and silent runner. Have also side lined the E-Z commander and purchased an NCE Powerhouse Pro, as you can't program the Cv's with the E-Z.

So if you want silent running, do what I did if you have the cheaply priced Bachmann DCC equipped loco's. Or better still, go for the Proto's and fit a silent decoder.

David

[Anonymous]

SpaceMouse,
I think something got mixed up here. Your original question was comparing Bachmann SPECTRUM to P2K, yet all the posts are referring to the cheap Bachmann standard line with the factory equipped decoders for use with their EZ Command system. Which one were you really trying to compare?

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by enduringexp

SpaceMouse,
I think something got mixed up here. Your original question was comparing Bachmann SPECTRUM to P2K, yet all the posts are referring to the cheap Bachmann standard line with the factory equipped decoders for use with their EZ Command system. Which one were you really trying to compare?

Once again my ignorance was bailed out by the knowledge of the board. The Train World ad reads Bachman Spectrum across the top of the page, but the product I was referring to was one of their standard line.

[Anonymous]

Yep, it's deceiving. They have a dot between Bachmann and Spectrum that separates the names, so you really need to find out which is which on that page. Some are standard line.